Arctic Ice Melt "has the momentum of a runaway train."

reply to post by pheonix358


Well Pheonix, you have my interest ..and you've always had my respect. Antarctica has been a pet project of mine, but that doesn't compare to your having personally focused on various data and factual basis for climate change for so many years.

With that and in context to the thread, what is your take? I haven't gotten a clear indication of what you feel on this? Your chart indicates you're not feeling this is man made..which I tend to agree with. Contributed? possibly...made? Well, I'll say I don't buy it so I'm not putting words into your mouth on it. That's part of what I'm curious on your take for.

What do you see as the long term trend? A good part of what I found for support on my own thread this week was indicating a long term cooling trend is still something being seriously looked at happening in the natural cycles of things. Yet, on the other hand, we all know the degree of people saying it's a warming trend. So which would you see it as?

I'm finding your information pf particular interest because I hadn't realized you'd made this a personal thing and for deeply personal reasons. That does make all the difference over folks for whom it's another story to be "right" on, with sources randomly pulled off the net?

Hidden data?
falsified scientific researches,wars and such, collapse of the worlds economies etc....
Add it all up kiddies and you have the elites sneaking off to their underground bases in which they hope to ride out the earth changes which are inevitably comming to pass.....
The economy is bound to collapse because they have taken all that mony out of programs and such to fortify the DUMBS and store up the fuel and food stuffs.
remember the huge meals ready to eat contract?
the billions of bulets?
the 2700 Mraps to patrol the new world with when they surface in a century or millenium.....
The various make believe projects which are hollow shells that do nothing but generate even more budget money to the hideaways of the rich and rotten.
Dont fforget the TUNDRA of the NWT and RUSSIAN TAiga...underlain with methane frozen into the perma frost...ready to melt out as well.......were doomed.

reply to post by DarKPenguiN


Check out the movie in the link provided by Mamatus on the first page.

Take it from the people out there exploring the fringes.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Danbones

 

Sea ice around Antarctica is increasing because the glaciers on Antarctica are melting into the ocean, as you own link points out.

And the Southern Ocean is warming rapidly and it's current is increasing in speed.

They believe

from the link in my previous post
the point of that link is contained in the phrase
"they believe"
as opposed to
"they know"

please note the quote in my sig

reply to post by Danbones


I know from reading your posts you don't know much about science.

Science looks at thing in levels of uncertainty, not certainty.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Sure we will see global cooling in maybe a thousand years or so, unless the calderas start going off.

In the meantime, shipping across the Arctic will continue to increase.

Cause you know it all, global cooling is melting the ice in the Arctic.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
So - if this is to be the case - that methane will flood the earth and cause our breaths to become dying gasps..

You don't think that humans would create some sort of apparatus to wear - or create bio-domes and filter the air?

Do you really think this will be the end all of us?

I don't. But, hey, I'm an optimist.

So where are the best places for humanity to prepare to go to should methane become the planet killer? For those left without the masks they'll sell for a hundred bucks and those who can't afford a ticket into a dome?

Cirque

So.....do you think you will be getting one of those breathing apparatus I don't think I will be getting one either

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Thanks Wrabbit.

Man is making a difference, but in two directions. The major two factors in CO2 emissions prior to the Industrial revolution were animals and huge scale forest fires. In general terms man controls forest fires and man has killed off so many animals over time that in these two respects CO2 has decreased. Of course man has added lots more but not enough to make the claims that have been made.

The climate debate was first about Global Warming. That did not pan out very well since we stopped warming for a decade, or did we. Then they switched to Global cooling, and many many people switched off. Asking the question is it warming or cooling is not one that the general public can get its head around. So they changed it to climate change.

I have studied much of the bogus science created by $$$. The thing to watch for in these models is the absence of Solar Output. The entire planetary system obtains its energy from the sun. Any 'scientific paper' that does not properly take this into account is bogus.

In the decade 2000/2010 average earth temperatures did not rise in any expected fashion. But then if this is true and it is, why is the polar ice still melting at an alarming rate?

We are being subjected to storms of greater power and seasonal conditions that don't make sense. Yes, for every warm winter we can find the odd similar occurrence through our limited historical records. But in those records we do not find this happening constantly as it is now.

No one can hide the fact that Arctic sea ice is melting. What has been hidden is the sheer and incredible volume of ice that is melting, that is, the sea ice that remains is getting thinner and thinner.

There are huge junks of sea ice around Antarctica that are breaking away and subsequently melting. There are also 'scientific studies' that say otherwise. That program I mentioned by Richard Atenborough (?) shows aerial views and satellite images that can not be questioned.

IMHO, we are heading for an ice age and I do not think we have hundreds of years to get ready for it.

The problem with 'cooling' and 'warming' trends is that we are looking at 'global averages of air temperature'.

It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the sea temperature in the Arctic region is increasing at an alarming level. Ice is melting - therefore the temperature is rising. It is that simple.

It is said that this has happened in recorded history so we should not be alarmed. The problem with these type of statements is that they appear in MSM reports and try as I may, I can't access the hard data.

What scares me the most is that the hard date that was available when the internet was in its infancy has vanished. That screams at a hidden agenda and you need to consider that the vast majority of this data is funded and controlled by Governments.

Watch that video Wrabbit. It is the only one of recent times that tells the story that supports the pre 1995 data set.

Best hour you will ever spend if you are really interested in this area. I don't think the good Sir can be bought and at the same time even he is hiding the data in concern for Polar Bears and Penguins.

There are many other scientists making similar claims but they are not 'mainstream' and many have had labels attached to them.

Nothing to see here, move on!

P

Originally posted by rickymouse

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
So - if this is to be the case - that methane will flood the earth and cause our breaths to become dying gasps..

You don't think that humans would create some sort of apparatus to wear - or create bio-domes and filter the air?

Do you really think this will be the end all of us?

I don't. But, hey, I'm an optimist.

So where are the best places for humanity to prepare to go to should methane become the planet killer? For those left without the masks they'll sell for a hundred bucks and those who can't afford a ticket into a dome?

Cirque

So.....do you think you will be getting one of those breathing apparatus

I don't think I will be getting one either

I know right! I'm in Michigan - if the suspected best place is north, I'm in a good position to try and get as north as I can get!

Only problem is - I'm surrounded by water!!!

Cirque

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Danbones

 

I know from reading your posts you don't know much about science.

Science looks at thing in levels of uncertainty, not certainty.

thats rich
I'm the one who just made the distinktion between
they "believe "which is a Globalwarmist maxim
and they "know" which is the maxim of the people that have actually been proven correct
time after time


so how about some examples of where you "KNOW I have been scientifically incorrect?
as opposed to where you BELIEVE I have been scientifically incorrect

I'll wait

reply to post by pheonix358


Thank you for your reply. I couldn't explore a new direction for research now if it paid 5 figures and came with a new car. However...in about 10 days, for better or worse, finals will be over and my grades will be done. Then, I have a couple major things I'm starting on fresh. You've given me what may take a spot toward the top.

Water temp rising ...so the problem is below, not above for what is immediate to melting the ice. Yeah..That is disturbing in a way that man made changes to atmosphere temperatures really never can be. Changes to Ocean flow, current and temp are...well... Global changing and on levels beyond the global warming debate, eh? At least that's what I'm taking from your words at this point. (adjusts post semester priority list). Thanks for a new direction for important studying. Especially since I'm taking environmental sciences in the fall. Timing, eh?

* in addition to discounts at the pizza joints and some free tickets to events at times...My College ID gets me into any of several Universities in this area, which is important for their library resources. One of which hosts one of the better Geo-Sciences programs in the nation, as I understand it. I wonder.... Data is stored in old fashioned ways too.

Click here for more information.

To those that were trying to remember about a "Methane Bomb" happening millions of years ago, I believe you are thinking of this:

Clathrate Gun Hypothesis :

The clathrate gun hypothesis is the popular name given to the hypothesis that rises in sea temperatures (and/or falls in sea level) can trigger the sudden release of methane from methane clathrate compounds buried in seabeds and permafrost which, because the methane itself is a powerful greenhouse gas, leads to further temperature rise and further methane clathrate destabilization – in effect initiating a runaway process as irreversible, once started, as the firing of a gun.[1]

They hypothesis is for around 250 million years ago.

As for "gasping for breath" or "taking our last breaths", you don't need to worry about that. Even the amount that is hypothesised to have been released back then is not enough to displace oxygen to where we'd have problems breathing.

The dangers of large methane releases is not killing you by making it to where you can't breath. The danger is the effect it can have on global climate.

Just thought I'd help clear that up.

So if the Arctic Ice cap cracked in two, how do we deal with a bi-polar Canada?

Since the OP's article was talking about the last 400,000 years, I thought everyone might like to take a look at this chart showing CH4 levels (methane) over the last 420,000 years.

Rather cyclic looking:



From a old NASA article about methane levels rising and becoming better known in the climate world. Here's a link to it:

NASA Link On Methane from 2004

reply to post by poet1b


I still hope. You're right though, I don't know that now is the time to hit the panic button but sooner than we thought it is going to get very bad, I agree. I think water will be the first catastrophe though quickly followed by food.

reply to post by eriktheawful


Nice graph. Good find.

If you compare that to the graph I presented.



You will find some very interesting, striking even, similarities. Note the graphs have the x axis reversed. It all ties in nicely. Very much a cyclical event.

P

ETA Note that the ice ages are about 120,000 years apart and the last one was 120,000 years ago. Scary?

Hello everyone. I saw this post and after many years of lurking I have joined so I could participate in this discussion. I write for the SF Examiner about climate change and have for about 5 years. I am a climate change activist. The reason I started studying about climate change was because of some articles I found about 10 years ago. This post is the number #1 most important thing we have to worry about in the world above all others. The Arctic is melting far faster than any models ever predicted.

Yes, methane is going to be a huge huge issue - we have played with the unknown of the unknowns. We have no idea if a rapid release of methane could cause an extinction level event - it is thought to have played a big role in past extinction events.

I talk frequently to some of the scientists and know some of the people involved at deep levels - one of them think that the Arctic may even be ice free by this year. I attended the AGU conference last year in SF and overheard some frightening things said about the Arctic by top NOAA advisers.

It's good to be among like-minded company here at ATS. I have also frequented GLP for many years but pretty much just for the breaking news. Honestly I find the people here at ATS are more mature and the posts tend to stay on topic. I look forward to being a member here.

reply to post by pheonix358


Clearly math is not your strength. This does not show a pattern. The differences between the gaps is far to large for the number of samples.

reply to post by TheWriterChick


Thanks for bringing some sanity back to the thread.

It was back in 2008 that this issue jumped up in significance. The reports on methane plumes changed everything even more in 2011.

The scientific community is sounding the alarm, but most people don't want to listen.