Arctic Ice Melt "has the momentum of a runaway train."

Originally posted by greatfriendbadfoe

And I guess the mirror image can apply to anyone who feels it is all hogwash. How about they ALL go live on a low lying island. After all, there is nothing to worry about

The seas won't rise, the ice won't melt, you will all be perfectly safe by your estimates

Like ALWAYS you are ignoring the facts being presented...

Sea level changes, and dramatic Climate Changes have occurred MANY TIMES and will continue happening, but unlike you, many of us understand it is a NATURAL cycle...

Next thing you are going to claim, like many in the AGW camp have done in the past, is that "you all are Climate Change deniers"...

reply to post by MadMax7


Given that the Arctic is a floating lump of ice, "IF" it melts there should be no increase in sea level as the displacement effect is relative, however, what you will see is a massive series of super storms. Could you image all that fresh water in the sea?

I'm not trying to go down the "day after tomorrow" route but dumping all that fresh water into the ocean within 2 years (dont believe it would take only 2 years for all that ice to melt), the salinity of the world oceans would change which would (IMO) reduce global temperatures and increase temperature gradients dramatically.

Bigger temperature gradients between the tropics and temperate zones means super hurricanes, colder global temperatures means longer harsher winters and shorter wetter summers!

The prospects of an ice age event, imo, is far more likley than all arctic ice melt gone within 2 years!

I'm not afraid of death........

Yet.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by greatfriendbadfoe

And I guess the mirror image can apply to anyone who feels it is all hogwash. How about they ALL go live on a low lying island. After all, there is nothing to worry about

The seas won't rise, the ice won't melt, you will all be perfectly safe by your estimates

Like ALWAYS you are ignoring the facts being presented...

Sea level changes, and dramatic Climate Changes have occurred MANY TIMES and will continue happening, but unlike you, many of us understand it is a NATURAL cycle...

Next thing you are going to claim, like many in the AGW camp have done in the past, is that "you all are Climate Change deniers"...

Sure we had many periods of different climates in the past and scientists all know that but basicly they all agree (97%) this change is because of our 'experiment' happening today which sets in a different climate.
So if we didn't do this experiment who knows how many thousands or even millions of years we would have keepen basicly the same climate.

All this co2 in the oceans which make it more acid, this we had 50 millions of years as well! but you also say; it isn't us who is putting all the co2 in the air (which the ocean sucks up making them acid)??

The next thing that will happen, more acid oceans (where the smallets get hit first > plankton, sea shells creatures and so on). Then methane (which is much more powerfull then co2) will get released putting something in action which can't be stopped and where we would go back 50 millions of years ago when the first creatures appeared which are now our modern day mammals and so on which where tiny in size since the climate was toxic/not healthy.

And when that happens the arrogace of humans will just say; who cares; it happened in the past, it's natural, not our fault.

You also could say; when species die out because of our actions basicly; not our fault, happened in the past!

But sure what can I or you do anyways, so it may be a natural thing for humans to happen but just not very smart.

Originally posted by rickymouse
Our past ignorance has come to bite us in the butt. We ignored the people that were worried about this stuff saying they had no evidence. Well, here is the evidence, twenty years too late and irreversible. The most we can do now is to keep our extinction from happening within the next twenty five years. I doubt if people will change their ways enough though. I predict that there is going to be a major "natural" dieoff of humans in the next five years. Maybe a world wide bunch of unrelated diseases.

What evidence?

If this report where true and the cap would be ice free in 2 years then "waterworld" would have already become a reality for you and me. Or does 60% of that ice melt suddenly in the last 2 months after the next 2 years? I think not


If anything this is evidence of all the BS and fear mongering being flung around to get some extra tax through the floodgate.

*pun intended.

reply to post by poet1b

And Antarctic is expanding...

Expanding ice 'may keep Antarctic cool'...
www.news.com.au...

I love how the earth compensates ... on ya earth!

Originally posted by VoidHawk
There's those words again.

Could - Climate Models - Predicted

Climate models are fantasy, that's why they are MODELS!
Where's all the flooding? I thought we were supposed to be under hundreds of feet of water when the ice had even half melted!! I remember them saying that!

So, in two years time when we're all still here can we dispense with this highly profitable nonsense?

When Arctic sea ice melts, the sea levels actually get lower because the ice displaces a higher volume of water than its liquid form. Continental ice is the problem because it adds water to the ocean that hasn't been there. Greenland is an example of this.

The sea levels have been rising slowly, and it's even been measured. The ocean rising just one meter would be devestating to coastal cities worldwide. It would cost a lot of money and resources to relocate.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by greatfriendbadfoe

And I guess the mirror image can apply to anyone who feels it is all hogwash. How about they ALL go live on a low lying island. After all, there is nothing to worry about

The seas won't rise, the ice won't melt, you will all be perfectly safe by your estimates

Like ALWAYS you are ignoring the facts being presented...

Sea level changes, and dramatic Climate Changes have occurred MANY TIMES and will continue happening, but unlike you, many of us understand it is a NATURAL cycle...

Next thing you are going to claim, like many in the AGW camp have done in the past, is that "you all are Climate Change deniers"...

I think it's disgusting you have to put political bias into something that has been known about for at least 50 years. There are natural cycles throughout history, yes. But humans alter these cycles. The planet can't regulate CO2 because too many trees have been cut down in areas where trees won't be growing back anytime soon. Adding fossil carbon puts carbon into the atmosphere that's thousands of years old, but it shouldn't be there because it's been removed from the cycle when sedimentation occured.
One thing that takes the planet hundreds of years to regulate is chlorofluorocarbons. These deplete the ozone layer, and the effects have particularly been prevalent at the poles. In the North Pole, the temperature has increased 4 degrees because of the ozone hole there.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
There's those words again.

Could - Climate Models - Predicted

Climate models are fantasy, that's why they are MODELS!
Where's all the flooding? I thought we were supposed to be under hundreds of feet of water when the ice had even half melted!! I remember them saying that!

So, in two years time when we're all still here can we dispense with this highly profitable nonsense?

OMG if this statement is an indication of the knowledge base of the climate skeptic we are in deep doo doo.

The Artic is ice floating on water. It will add zero to sea levels. The ice on land , Greenland, Antarctica etc will cause sea levels to rise. Those land based ice sheets will take longer to melt.

Sheesh !!!!

reply to post by golemina



Part of reading involves comprehension -- look it up

reply to post by yorkshirelad


Yep. All this talk of the models, the science, none of it hits me. What hits me is the stuff I am seeing on a day to day basis, summer after summer. Extreme event after extreme event. Record after record being broken. At a certain point, it don't take a weatherman to look around and see the weather. It appears that point is still a ways down the road for many here, but unfortunately I think it is coming. I wish I were wrong.

Absolutely amazing that the fixation of the posters in this thread is about the ice melting -- THAT IS NOT THE POINT! The point is the release of massive volumes of methane which as a green house gas makes CO2 look like the pimple on an elephant's ass.

The CO2 was like the push that started the freight train rolling down the hill.

This was not unforeseen -- the methane trapped in the permafrost has always been a concern - the methane hydrate thawing -- that was supposed to be a long time coming - guess not.

I am normally pretty skeptical but this is fairly convincing. I think the future is here.

Hi
Ill be taking any bets that the arctic will not be icefree at a rate 2:1. If you are interested msg me, we'll do it over a trust. I even prolong it to 5years. If the arctic should be icefree anywhere from now on until 2018, I'll double your money.
But it wont be icefree anyway.

This is obviously a false alarm -- I looked up the crack pot who is pointing this out -- I can't believe the governments are believing this guy -- and he is a foreigner to boot.

www.uwa.edu.au...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse



I know there is motive for saying global warming is real. I also know there is a lot more motive to say it is not real. I have evaluated all of this and know the exploitation that is emerging in favor of global warming being real is not even nearly as strong as the exploitation of the earth that has been going on for a long time now. We can't keep trashing this planet. We need to take better care of this Biodome. If we don't than I know for sure that there are people with enough knowledge and resources to reduce the population of humans on this planet to one tenth of it's current population....Mostly indiscriminately. I know that neither my family nor your family will be a survivor.

reply to post by Rubic0n


I would tend to believe those who would try to reduce the pollution we are throwing at this world than those who gain wealth or sustain their way of life because of their continued exploitation of the environment.

None of this should need the implementation of a tax but I can see that taxing waste would solve the problem.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
There's those words again.

Could - Climate Models - Predicted

Climate models are fantasy, that's why they are MODELS!
Where's all the flooding? I thought we were supposed to be under hundreds of feet of water when the ice had even half melted!! I remember them saying that!

So, in two years time when we're all still here can we dispense with this highly profitable nonsense?

except they DIDN'T SAY what you are implying, which is nonsense...again...artic ice that already floats in the waters of the ocean, when melted, does not raise sea levels....like a ice cube already in a glass of water...so...for you to say climate models are a fantasy...means to me that you have not read the reports, and you would not have made this assertion.

A decade ago, the "Experts" were saying that snow would be a thing of the past, something our children would likely never see...... and yet?

Once that was shown to be a complete joke (and glacial melt in the Himalayas isn't quite as bad as they made out... amongst other scare stories), they then changed the game again and come out with more models and even scarier predictions and have changed the rules on cause and effect once again. Surely, these "experts" must know what they are talking about.... right? They receive their grants and funding and have built careers on their science so are above questioning by us mere mortals.

Seriously, climate changes, and I think everyone knows that and it can be shown to have happened over the history of this planet. However, look at one little issue they never seem to factor in - sub-sea vents and volcanic activity. They all agree that the number of these (thousands) and their impact is unknown, so just don't factor them in at all, when in fact the likelihood is they have a HUGE impact, probably greater than the impact of mankind.
So, what we are left with, as always, is fudged numbers, cooked books, computer models churning out crap data extrapolated from the crap data that was input...... and many trying to look at ways they can make this new scare story profitable and turn a few £Billion from it.

So what do you think about the massive methane release??

reply to post by spyder550


Melting permafrost, methane locked at the bottom of the oceans, that's a strange one. Surface temperature just doesn't cut it here, it's almost as if the it's a sub-surface temperature change driving this from below rather than the air or water temperatures above. Warm water will remain at the upper levels of the oceans, not sink to the depths, the same way that warm air will rise, not sit at the surface and melt permafrost.
Given the record frigid temperatures we have had over the last couple of years in many of the places where the permafrost exists, you's think the ground would remain frozen to a good depth keeping the methane locked in. If it is continuing to melt though then the sub-surface ground must be warming from beneath.