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reply to post by BDBinc
It was worth a try to have a reasonable argument on this topic but clearly this is impossible. You are just twisting the meaning of my words to suit your point of view. I suppose I am partially to blame for not articulating my view with enough clarity. Regardless you are clearly entrenched in your view and no expression of sound logical reasoning will move you so I'll take this as my cue to remove myself from this discussion.
In your post either take responsibility for lack of clarity, if you believe you have failed to articulate clearly, OR give up and accuse me of twisting what you said( I did not and I have quoted you) your two points contradict each other. One is blame and one is taking responsibility.
My "point of view" is that I KNOW verbal abuse and hurtful words can hurt the person . I have experienced it.
Again like LM's argument you are separating meaning from words, trying to take them as letters without meanings to be taken out of context.
I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself too clearly, but it seemed like you guys were arguing past each other and then resorting to personal attacks when both sides didn't seem to engage the other's argument, so I'm just trying to bring us back to reasoned arguments.
You are right. I rescind my blame and take full responsibility and concede to you that your argument is right.
your reason speaks for itself.
You are funny - now talking about separating words from the mind just so you can say "words do not hurt"?.
When we speak a word, why it is impossible to think that "meaning" travels in the sound waves to the one hearing it? Sound gives form doesn't it. When you hear that is exactly how you perceive words!
"Cyber Bullying Suicide"
It's us. You and I are the unique products of our experiences and as such we are the ones who will ultimately hear and process all the language (words) that comes to us in any form. We will process that language through our own filters of life experiences, contexts and emotions. It will be colored by those things and by our relationships with the speakers, real and imagined. In short, our own psychology as it already exists will help to determine how any words we hear or read affect us.
reply to post by BDBinc
But the words are shaped by your mind and the sum total of you personal psychology.
The words that are so hurtful to you would be completely ineffectual in hurting another.
Or, if you translated those words into a foreign language that you didn't know, would those same words with that same meaning have the same effect although they would effectively be jibberish?
I say that would depend. If the speaker of the now unintelligible words is the same, the force of the nonverbal cues might be enough to trigger your own negative emotions, but if you didn't know precisely what was being said, would the negative emotions be as strong? If the speaker was a stranger and the words were foreign jibberish, what would your reaction be? Sure you would still pick up on the nonverbal cues, but how much would you really care? Would the effect of having a complete stranger say something obviously negative but completely unintelligible be enough to make you actually experience emotional distress or would you feel something much milder?
And when we're done assessing how you behaved in these circumstances. Let's repeat this experiment but use an off-the-cuff remark that hurts you without the speaker intending it to and repeat the process. I'll bet the results would be entirely different. I'll bet you'd only be hurt when you could understand what was said.
In the first case, the amount of psychological distress you are feeling is determined by how you perceive the words and the speaker, but mostly by the words. In the second case, your distress is triggered almost entirely by how you perceive the words because there is no intent on the part of the speaker. Remove the words and you have no basis for distress at all.
Change how a person perceives the words, and you alter the power the words have to provoke feelings in the person.
Words exist in the mind (and thoughts do).
When you talk about words you cannot separate them from the mind.
Your argument consists of not this world of words with meanings or the mind, but a world of replacing words with jibberish, crazy ideas desperately inventing ideas to try to make words outside the mind existent.
You seem hell bent on separating words from their meaning context and the mind but this is not how we use them in the" non jibersih world" (where I am saying words hurt).
You can hear spoken words by sound waves that travel to you, the meaning is always in words, the word is in the mind so how is it that you keep removing the mind from the equation.
A reasoning mind will not replace words as we know them compare them to jiberish, or keep saying words exist outside the mind and don't hurt persons in cases of verbal abuse (that by your example, can hurt so much that it becomes intolerable to live).
Perhaps we would do better to teach our children how they give words power both over others and over themselves and why.