Have we just witnessed the first shot in World War III?

Originally posted by 22ways
its time to put down our guns and fight with out minds

the mullahs order young men in the name of allah, to put on suicide vests and blow non-believers into bloody bits of flesh, and you want to fight them with your mind????....go ahead, of course, you won't mind if I stand way back here and watch you accomplish that.

reply to post by jimmyx


Just asking as I do not know: how many terrorist incidents in US/UK are attributed to Iran?

reply to post by ipsedixit


Can you define 'radical islam' and how is Iran any more radical than say governments in countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Pakistan for example?

The issue that most people have with Islam is that, within the Koran, it is easy to find permission to resort to violence to settle disagreements, particularly disagreements involving infidels.

Everyone knows that there have been periods of history when Islam and Islamic governments have been beacons of light in the world and have been tolerably tolerant of infidels.

In the pluralistic world though, there is reason to question the advisability of allowing too much power to an ideology that so easily equates the syllogism with the bullet and doesn't seem to differentiate between the two in a qualitative way, when it comes to issues of tolerance.

reply to post by ipsedixit


What you say is the issue with Islam, nothing particular with Iran.

And I am sure Iran cannot be singled out for that.

Iran (Persia) is a very old culture, older than Greece and Rome.

They have maintained their identity over the ages because they know how to survive.

Originally posted by GargIndia
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

Can you define 'radical islam' and how is Iran any more radical than say governments in countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Pakistan for example?

Saudi Arabia is basically a US protectorate. If Iran were to adopt the posture of Saudi Arabia in dealing with the United States, the US would be satisfied, I think.

Jordan is similar. Jordan is not a belligerent in the Middle East. Jordan is a "nice" country. It is led by pragmatists.

Pakistan is a classic Islamic snake's nest of intermural conflict.

Iran is fundamentalist, is organized and is potent in the world beyond its borders. Iran is going to, in the not too distant future, find itself dealing with unrest on its western border. They will become preoccupied with the problems that develop. They will have difficulty making time for Hezbollah. They will recollect themselves and recuse themselves from "international" postures. They will dedicate themselves to maintaining themselves in power in Iran.

I think the best they can hope for is a status a little more independent than Saudi Arabia, more like the status of other powers who are integrated into the international economy in such a way that they are "sovereign" but "dependant". That's the world that sane countries live in.

Originally posted by GargIndia
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

What you say is the issue with Islam, nothing particular with Iran.

That is true.

And I am sure Iran cannot be singled out for that.

A big crocodile is not the same as a little crocodile.

Iran (Persia) is a very old culture, older than Greece and Rome.

Iran or Persia?

They have maintained their identity over the ages because they know how to survive.

Did Persia survive? The descendants of the Persians survived. People will survive in Iran. Will the Sharia state survive? I think it is unlikely.

reply to post by ipsedixit


China is just fine with this Iran and in fact just fine with all the ME countries. They are no longer driven by ideology and this Iran like a thorn on the US is just how the Chinese particularly like it. The US and allies imposed sanctions but China is the world's supermarket and also big enough to get their own way and all the more better a sanctioned Iran is a captived customer and more oil to them to feed their hungry industries.

The thing with China and Iran is that they have never been enemies and it is possible China could just do a Taiwan-like massive arms deal with Iran out of spite to America and could very well get away with that. China doesn't really care about how American is feeling and Iran is their beholden proxy. There was a China Card and there is an Iran Card now, they sure know how to stack the deck.

reply to post by ipsedixit


I think it is a complex game. We cannot just predict if government of Iran will fall just because of some US or Israeli bombing campaign.

Iran has been subjected to a lot of subversion via terrorist activities in Iran itself. So a deadly game is already being played.

As regards Iran vs Persia, the name does not matter. A change in name of country does not change the civilization.

Axis:
Israel
USA
Japan
India

Allies
Syria
Iran
Pakistan
North Korea

Unsure
Russia - So very unsure, they got peace treaties with the usa, but at the same time they are allies with syria.
China - due to usa's gigantic debt, im almost sure they might go on Axis side then defect to allies, Just a hunch.

Tis a horrible bombing, everyday Israel is looking to be more and more the evil state.. Just saying..
"Will make war with the set apart ones" I wonder which are the one getting bombed and killed everyday. Such a huge conspiracy yet the scriptures do hold out many truths, Tis sad the demonic vatican changed the scriptures and burned the original ones.

reply to post by mypan

I think in the end American pragmatism and Chinese pragmatism will find a middle way. Yes, they will jostle and compete. They will tussle for economic advantage, but it is in the interest of neither to seriously harm the other.

Originally posted by GargIndia
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

I think it is a complex game. We cannot just predict if government of Iran will fall just because of some US or Israeli bombing campaign.

I agree. The fate of the Iranian government is not sealed, yet.

Iran has been subjected to a lot of subversion via terrorist activities in Iran itself. So a deadly game is already being played.

How solid are the Azeris? I have read that they have solid revolutionary credibility in Iran, but people in this part of the world are very supple. Is Azerbaijan a threat in this respect? Would Iranian Azeris prefer to live in Azerbaijan?

Would Armenians like an outlet to the Caspian? Would they make common cause with the Kurds to force a gateway to the Caspian?

As regards Iran vs Persia, the name does not matter. A change in name of country does not change the civilization.

Islam changed the civilisation.

reply to post by ipsedixit


You are an optimist. However optimists mostly fail in predicting events.

We do not know if a war will happen and I hope war does not happen. But if it does, predicting a certain course of events is not fruitful.

Originally posted by GargIndia
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

You are an optimist. However optimists mostly fail in predicting events.

Perhaps.

We do not know if a war will happen and I hope war does not happen. But if it does, predicting a certain course of events is not fruitful.

I'm pretty certain that, unless there is a marked change by Iran of international posture, they are going to be subjected to major disruptions on their western border. The Kurds are like a bowling ball already rolling down the alley toward the neatly stacked pins, Iran and Iraq.

Originally posted by Arolexion
Axis:
Israel
USA
Japan
India

Allies
Syria
Iran
Pakistan
North Korea

Unsure
Russia - So very unsure, they got peace treaties with the usa, but at the same time they are allies with syria.
China - due to usa's gigantic debt, im almost sure they might go on Axis side then defect to allies, Just a hunch.

Tis a horrible bombing, everyday Israel is looking to be more and more the evil state.. Just saying..
"Will make war with the set apart ones" I wonder which are the one getting bombed and killed everyday. Such a huge conspiracy yet the scriptures do hold out many truths, Tis sad the demonic vatican changed the scriptures and burned the original ones.

I wouldnt say there are axis and allies just axis team 1 and axis team 2: Just can't see countries like North Korea on good guys list just look some videos of people there, brainwashing is crime and both sides use it. If war breaks out no matter who wins middle class and poor will be suffering most.

I think If we are, in fact, on the brink of WWIII, that we will not be as "triumphant" as in the last World Wars. Not only are we more technologically advanced, but they are as well. There will be no "winner". We will simply annihilate one another.

reply to post by xmaddness


Seems like you've been brainwashed by the Main Stream Media. Assad is not bad.

And I see no mention of the NATO alliance in you're post. Britain and France will no doubt have a part to play in enforcing a no fly zone/bombing. You also left out Egypt.

Originally posted by hotel1
It would say that we are as about as close to it as we were during the Cuban Missile crisis right now.

I have to disagree, I was a small child at that time and remember my folks discussing the missile crisis, the Soviet Union had a fleet of ships headed to Cuba and the USA sent a fleet in their path and said they would fire on the Soviets if they tried to move past our 'blockade', it was a gamble as the Soviet Union didn't want to look like they would back down first but brother Robert Kennedy met with Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev nearly in tears (according to Khrushchev son in his book) and said "My brother will use it!" (the BOMB) before he will allow your fleet to pass!"
We were minutes away from WW3 when Nikita Khrushchev recalled the fleet.
We have NEVER been this close before (not counting the accidents where missiles were almost fired due to the USA mistaking a meteor for an incoming missile!).
www.pbs.org...

www.rferl.org...

reply to post by chishuppu

Still waiting on the proof of missiles going to Hezbollah

umm, it's common knowledge in the intelligence community. How do you think Hezbollah get's armed? Seriously: where do you think they get their weapons from?

As for the proof: there were secondary explosions i.e the weapons that were targeted "exploded" following the initial strike. That is pretty good evidence.

Anyone that thinks Syria/Hezbollah are innocent victims here, is a dunce. Seriously. There is nothing wrong with Israel preemptively taking out Hezbollah's supplies and strategic locations. They (As in Hezbollah )are the ones that declared war, each and every time they decided to send rockets, organize bombings and attacks against civilians in Israel. If Syria defends Hezbollah, they are assuming responsibility for its actions in the past.....and thus, should take their medicine.