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Why should Immoral people change?

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posted on May, 8 2013 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by eight bits
 





when I asked you to back up your claim, and point out where God or prophets are mentioned there, you can't.

they are not, however it would be nice of you if you explained what you meant especially when you are claming now that it was not a sneeky, covert remark on God and all prophets.
I'l be apologising to you if you clear that you meant something else.

Maybe you wouldn't, considering how much i have offended and intimidated you, i will be completely understanding it.

I hope we interact on something more worthy and i hope you learn that you can't always get your way.




posted on May, 8 2013 @ 05:26 AM
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reply to post by eight bits
 



The only Biblical truth on point is that a Bronze Age Israelite state forbade some kinds of adult consensual expression of human love within its borders. The same state forbade the eating of pork and shell fish, the wearing of clothing with more than one kind of material, gathering sticks on the sabbath, and many. many other "moral" lapses.

You were saying something earlier about Christians recognizing homosexuality as a normal and healthy lifestyle, something you say is the "truth". The truth according to who? Homosexuals? Their supporters? Christians who run gay churches?

One thing is for certain... the bible does not call it the "truth", but rather on the contrary, condemns it as SIN....not just the old Testament, but even in the New Testament. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.

Also Old Testament laws regarding shellfish and fabrics has no bearing on the New Testament rulings on homosexuality. Christianity teaches that homosexuality is a sin. Period.



You can preach what you think somebody else's religion should be, but you have no basis to pontificate about what anybody else's religion is.
The majority of Christians who revere the Tanakh do not believe that it should be read in the way you propose that they should read it. Thus, their reading is consistent with their own religion, and contradictory to yours.

I'm just reading the bible for what it is.
If the Bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin, then my understanding of that would be that homosexuality is a sin. The meaning of the words do not change from culture to culture, does it?
Christians can only pretend that they are not bound by Biblical rulings on homosexuality and other things... it is in no way consistent with their religion... not even the New Testament part of it.



edit on 8-5-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 08:11 AM
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Scorpie


You were saying something earlier about Christians recognizing homosexuality as a normal and healthy lifestyle, something you say is the "truth". The truth according to who? Homosexuals? Their supporters? Christians who run gay churches?


The DSM, for the last 40 years or so, assuming I need a citation for such an obvious proposition.

Paul's reference, by the way, was not to adult voluntary homosexuality but to the exploitation of boys, that is children, as prostitutes. That's illegal in much of the world, as a matter of secular criminality.


Christianity teaches that homosexuality is a sin. Period.


Apparently your vast experience of Christianity doesn't include the Old South Chruch (coincidentally, located at the Boston Marathon finish line, but cited here, as I often have done in the past, as just some mainstream Christian folks whose views on this subject I happen to know).


You are welcome here if you love people whose bodies look like yours,
or if you love people whose bodies are different,
for here, we are all the body of Christ.


Amen.

www.oldsouth.org...


I'm just reading the bible for what it is.


Just like everybody else, Scorpie. What you take from it, that's your call. What anybody else takes from it, that's their call. You have no say.

You think they are mistaken? Great. You claim they contradict themselves? You're wrong.

logical7


they are not, however it would be nice of you if you explained what you meant especially when you are claming now that it was not a sneeky, covert remark on God and all prophets.
I'l be apologising to you if you clear that you meant something else.


I take it that "sneaky covert remark" is L7-speak for what is breathtakingly obvious to anybody who can read, that there is no remark at all in what you quoted about God or any prophet.

However, if you think your feigning offense to a non-existent reference to God and prophets will intimidate me from criticizing some religious approaches to the topic question, then you can just dream on.



edit on 8-5-2013 by eight bits because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Where is YOUR apology for all the wars and bloodshed caused by YOUR government? When have you condemned the actions of your government?
Practically on a daily basis, right here, and I write to my Congressmen. I vote. I think that war should be stopped ALL OVER THE WORLD.

The people slaughtering each other are the CITIZENS of those countries. You are trying to tell me that the Palestinians lobbing explosives into Israel are "the government"?

Those tens of thousands of people in Bangladesh are "the government"?


Do you also expect Christians to come forward and say they condemn the actions of pedophile priests?

YES. And they HAVE.

Do you also expect regular American folks to come forward and say they condemn the action of their bloodthirsty governments?

YES. And we DO.



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


either Islam is not correct or what you have been believing till now is not correct or
both are partially not correct.

This is a correct statement.


Whatever the case you are obliged by your own intellect to find out.

Obviously, and my own intellect is telling me that the Abrahamic religions are not correct. I believe that I have made myself clear about that.


There is going to be a Judgement Day and everyone will be judged by their sincerity.


You may recall that you told eight bits: "you cannot start with an assumption, present it as a fact and build a whole arguement on it."

Yet you say "There is going to be a Judgment Day..." !! Which is entirely an ASSUMPTION on your part, and the part of anyone who has been told that by some other PERSON, whether in writing or in a place of worship or in the home or on the street. It has NO BASIS in FACT, and you cannot deny that.

Your OP was based on the fact that some people are immoral, and you wanted to discuss why they should change.

The only "fact" on which your entire belief system is organized is that an illiterate tribesman who married a 6-year old girl and consummated that marriage when she was NINE YEARS OLD, 1400 years ago, suddenly announced that he was "channeling" the angel Gabriel. That can NOT BE PROVEN AS FACT. You can admire and memorize Qur'an all you like, but it does not make the words written into FACTS - it only means the book itself was written.

I have stated that Religion Does Not Create Morality, as evidenced by the FACT that there are many, many moral people who have no faith or belief in the "God" that you imagine it to be. You have not made an adequate case to refute that.

I don't know where you and Scorpion get your "numbers" or ideas about sexual orientation and people "going gay", or that women are forced into prostitution because of it, but they are absurd. Also, the West is NOT a "Christian" culture - it is a secular culture, both in Europe and the Americas. If adults choose to follow Christianity, it is a CHOICE only, not a mandate.

I am anti-war to the very smallest neutrino of my being, through and through. I am a secular pacifist, and humanist, and I believe that mankind MUST take accountability to STOP the BLOODSHED, poverty, starvation, disease, and suffering of fellow human beings..

God has nothing to do with it!! Nether in the moral sense, NOR in any 'predetermination' sense. The notion of "God" is a human phenomenon based on our awareness of mortality and fear of the unknowable.






edit on 8-5-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by eight bits
 



The DSM, for the last 40 years or so, assuming I need a citation for such an obvious proposition.

So do Christians live by the DSM's version of the "truth" on homosexuality? Interesting.



Paul's reference, by the way, was not to adult voluntary homosexuality but to the exploitation of boys, that is children, as prostitutes.


Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

Paul said nothing about boys there. He is referring to adult homosexuals relationships. Are you really trying to re-write the Bible here?



Apparently your vast experience of Christianity doesn't include the Old South Chruch


You are welcome here if you love people whose bodies look like yours, or if you love people whose bodies are different, for here, we are all the body of Christ.


The Old South church is simply one of the many churches that have discarded the Bibles rulings on homosexuality. While they are entitled to their beliefs, it really doesn't change the fact that the Bible condemns homosexuality as sin.



Just like everybody else, Scorpie. What you take from it, that's your call. What anybody else takes from it, that's their call. You have no say.

There is nothing I can do when Christians pretend the Bible does not condemn homosexuality as a sin.



You think they are mistaken? Great. You claim they contradict themselves? You're wrong.


You think homosexuality is not a sin. No problem.
You claiming the Bible does not condemn homosexuality as a sin.... your'e wrong.



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



YES. And we DO.

And Muslims have also condemned the acts of terrorists.


If you expect muslims to be burdened with reigning in the extremists, then you are expected to reign in your armies and drones. Your letters to your congressmen, obviously have failed to prevent the deaths of muslims at the hands of the US warmachine.





edit on 8-5-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


The US isn't the only country that participates in war, Skorp.
And I agree that the military-industrial complex is evil, wicked, and entirely wrong. There are "rules of engagement"
in place dealing with warfare, which tells me there can also be "rules of NONengagement."

I'm not in charge of the military, and I believe soldiers are damaged by their training - they become killing machines - then they come home and don't know how to live in normal culture - many kill themselves. MANY. Obviously it is wrong.

War is Wrong.

The USA foreign policy has changed - in my opinion for the better, in terms of NOT intervening in other people's wars - and I am against support for Israel, arming of "rebels" and all the nefarious behind-the-scenes dealings that probably our own "Commander in Cheif" (the POTUS) is unaware of. Some few people think that shows "lax leadership", but it is mostly because Americans have been loudly protesting wars.

It is a shadow government of evil, self-serving, cold men in the Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderbergers who are behind all of this, and its atrociously inhumane and evil. It is questionable whether or not ANY ONE PERSON is aware of EVERYTHING - they are very good at "need to know" intrigue and people simply follow orders without knowing anything else anyone else is doing - but SOMEONE is calling the shots somewhere - David Rockefeller comes to mind, as well as Kissinger.

And those people are accountable to NO ONE.



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 11:02 AM
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Scorpie


So do Christians live by the DSM's version of the "truth" on homosexuality? Interesting.


You asked me, a secular person, the basis for my statement about some of the secular aspects, normalcy and healthiness, of homosexuality. I gave you a secular answer, from the standard reference in much of the world for questions about mental health. I didn't say anything about what Christians live by.


Paul said nothing about boys there.


oute malakoi oute arsenokoitai, "Not soft nor (a word that is not attested anywhere else except here)." Modern stereotypes may equate male homosexuality with "softness," but the ancient model of male same-sex lovers would be Achilles and Patroclus. Not soft guys at all. "Soft" is not otherwise a specifically sexual term, either.

There is no English notion of a "homosexual lifestyle" before the late Nineteenth Century, and by an amazing coincidence, you will find no English translations of these words as homosexual references before the Twentieth. Paul was dead an awfully long time before English-speakers first thought he was talking about gay people... which he wasn't.

If you don't like my reconstruction of arsenokoitai, then swell. That means the meaning is disputed. Every reader is then free to work out for themselves what Paul meant, if that matters to them. Disagreeing with your reading is contradicting you, not the reader contradicting herself.


While they are entitled to their beliefs, it really doesn't change the fact that the Bible condemns homosexuality as sin.


But you were commenting on the religion. Where any particular book fits into the religion is up to the adherent of the religion. If it's your religion, then you have a vote. Not otherwise.


There is nothing I can do when Christians pretend the Bible does not condemn homosexuality as a sin.


I don't see where the Old South Church had anything to say about what the Bible "condemns." Their Christian community (you do realize that The Body of Christ is a Christian term of art, right?) welcomes practicing homosexuals as members. The church, not Scorpie, decides who is fit for membership.

OSC is not the whole of Christianity, they are, however, mainstream Christians.


You claiming the Bible does not condemn homosexuality as a sin.... your'e wrong.


I certainly understand that that is your view. There seems to be diversity of opinion about that, however, among people who include the Bible in their religion. Neither of us does so. Thus, it really doesn't matter whether you think I am wrong about some Bible topic or not. What you cliamed was that other people contradicted themselves by disagreeing with you. They don't.



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





Obviously, and my own intellect is telling me that the Abrahamic religions are not correct. I believe that I have made myself clear about that.

could you tell me how you have reached that conclusion. I would like to know your thought process leading to it.

You may recall that you told eight bits:
"you cannot start with an assumption,
present it as a fact and build a whole
arguement on it." Yet you say "There is going to be a
Judgment Day..." !! Which is entirely an
ASSUMPTION on your part..

and i admit it that its my assumption/belief, if you have and i know you have continued reading my post i had said,

Even if you don't believe
it, you can't help but agree that sincere
seeking is the only right way.

i know you agree to it.

The only "fact" on which your entire
belief system is organized is that an
illiterate tribesman who married a 6-
year old girl and consummated that
marriage when she was NINE YEARS
OLD, 1400 years ago, suddenly announced that he was "channeling"
the angel Gabriel. That can NOT BE
PROVEN AS FACT. You can admire and
memorize Qur'an all you like, but it
does not make the words written into
FACTS - it only means the book itself was written.

i am not asking you to admit divine origin of Qur'an and prophet Muhammad pbuh is much much different and more than what you have been told, if you have read "The 100" '100 most influential people in history' by a historian Michael Hart, he put him as No.1 and Jesus pbuh later. I guess it would be worth reading the biography and philosophy of him before passing judgements in ignorance.
A recent biography by an agnostic jewess Lesley Hazelton has come out titled "The First Muslim"
here's what she has to say about Qur'an, its a 10 mins video

just to let you know the difference between your view and view of someone who has read the Qur'an.

I have stated that Religion Does Not
Create Morality, as evidenced by the
FACT that there are many, many moral
people who have no faith or belief in
the "God" that you imagine it to be. You have not made an adequate case
to refute that.

yes religion does not create morality. Morality is innately given by God. Some retain it, some retain it partly and some become completely immoral.
You have also not answered how the immoral people can come back to the fogotten innate morality?
I propose stricter moral laws and/or belief in God and accountability here and on Judgement day. would you just keep denying my proposal or suggest anything effective other than unicorn ponies



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by eight bits
 



You asked me, a secular person, the basis for my statement about some of the secular aspects, normalcy and healthiness, of homosexuality. I gave you a secular answer, from the standard reference in much of the world for questions about mental health. I didn't say anything about what Christians live by.

You did say something about Christians recognizing homosexuality as healthy and normal lifestyle... which you say is the "truth", and supported by the DSM.

If Christians don't live by the DSM's position on things, then they seem to be getting their ideas about homosexuality being healthy and normal from elsewhere. The source of such notions can't be the Bible because the Bible explicitly condemns it.


Paul was dead an awfully long time before English-speakers first thought he was talking about gay people... which he wasn't.


Paul is rather explicit in his stance regarding homosexuality. Romans 1:27 is another example.

"In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

Paul is clearly speaking of adult men lusting for one another. But I wont be surprised if you tell me it means something else.

The Bible is crystal clear about homosexuality being a sin. Why some people pretend it isn't is beyond me.



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





I don't know where you and Scorpion get your "numbers" or ideas about sexual orientation and people "going gay", or that women are forced into prostitution because of it, but they are absurd.



I got the data by a simple internet search, you can do it too,
what is it that you can't believe?
5 million more women?(just check census)
1 million prostitutes?
reducing age at which girls are entering prostitution?
www.veronicasvoice.org...



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


propose stricter moral laws and/or belief in God and accountability here and on Judgement day. would you just keep denying my proposal or suggest anything effective other than unicorn ponies

You were the one who first brought unicorn ponies into the discussion - not I.
Stricter moral laws? The laws in place in the USA are strict enough to deter murder, theft, rape, hate crimes, and justice is handed down by the people elected to do so. Hell, they won't even let people smoke inside most buildings now - it is illegal to not wear a seatbelt while driving, to drive recklessly, to drink and drive -
it is illegal to threaten others with harm (assault) or to injure them (battery).
It is illegal for adults to have sex with children or to beat or starve or mistreat them.
Rape is not allowed. (Kindly address how an Indian girl can be gang-raped ON A PUBLIC BUS without a mob stopping them?) India is well-known for misogyny (debasement of women), and so is Islam. Treating women like subhumans is illegal in the west.

It is illegal to go naked in the streets, or to have sex in public. Likewise to damage/deface or enter the property of another without permission, to trash National Parks, to set fires, to torture animals.

We have "public decency" laws, and "disturbing the peace" laws. We are not allowed to discharge fire-arms within city/town limits or on public property. There are laws against public intoxication

We have laws forbidding poisoning people, building bombs (let alone lobbing them at our neighbors), fraud, slander and libel, defamation of character, and forcing a religion on anyone. ATS is a good example of some of the "decency" instilled - profanity and personal attack is frowned upon and members are banned every day for disobeying those rules.

What more do we need? We know the laws, and we know what the penalties are if we break them. We also know what the "rules" of polite interaction are, and people are told to leave places where their behavior is unacceptable.

Furthermore, we have a saying here, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." So one can be arrested and charged with a crime whether they knew the law existed or not.

You want to make the Qur'an a book of "laws", and I say that it is unnecessary and ignorant to use an ancient text written by an entirely extinct bunch of people who knew only a tenth of a percentage of what we know today to manage society now.

People DO give up immoral behavior, for a variety of reasons - they outgrow their rebelliousness, they witness something that makes them realize they were wrong about something they did, they get reactions from others like shunning, rejection, disowned by their family and friends, they get sent to prisons - they have to register as "sex offenders" when they are released. Criminal records are in the public domain unless expunged (rare but it happens).

Look at the adult children of Fred Phelps - who were tortured as kids and taught about your vengeful "God" and his hatred for "homosexuality" - who picket funerals of children and soldiers and victims of atrocities - and then think about the fact that SOME OF THEM walked away and have publicly DENOUNCED their father and the Westboro Baptist Church. What made them change? REALIZING that what they were doing was ugly and WRONG, morally reprehensible.

As for the evil-doers of the world governments, they are NOT ACCOUNTABLE to anyone, and THAT is the problem. NO ONE should be above the law. But you know what? Most westerners are law-abiding people, and in America, we are friendly and helpful and peaceful in general.

Once I was overseas in Norway via Amsterdam, and I was appalled and shocked by how stoic and un-"friendly" strangers are to one another. Every time I leave my house I am greeted with waves from my neighbors, smiles from strangers in public places, and when I got on the plane to come home I was thrilled to be among other Americans again travelling back to the US.

You will NOT find a friendlier community of people anywhere than in the Midwestern USA. The atrocities of western expansion, urban blight, and crime notwithstanding, we are not all sinners bound for hell, and you just need to deal with that.

So there.



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by eight bits
 



Their Christian community (you do realize that The Body of Christ is a Christian term of art, right?) welcomes practicing homosexuals as members. The church, not Scorpie, decides who is fit for membership.

The Old South happens to be one of the many churches that accept homosexuals as members. Their ideas and practices are the work of men, not necessarily supported by the book they supposedly follow.



There seems to be diversity of opinion about that, however, among people who include the Bible in their religion. Neither of us does so. Thus, it really doesn't matter whether you think I am wrong about some Bible topic or not.

Well, I include many portions of the Bible in my religion as well.... as the Bible perfectly validates what I believe in. My signature is one example. For more, go through my posting history.

Even if we were to objectively assess the Bible as a document to study what Christians are to believe and live by, we would still find that he bible condemns homosexuality.



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


Prostitution and rape are illegal except in very few places, like Nevada. And then it is highly regulated and monitored to prevent disease and brutality. Young girls who go into prostitution are the victims of others who put them into those situations - oftentimes homeless runaways. Who runs away from home? Mistreated children. Low self-worth and self-loathing is linked to prostitution - and ....
wait for it....
religion that teaches original sin, hell, and worthlessness is ALSO linked to low self-worth and self-loathing.

And you linking "homosexuals" to causing "prostitution" is ridiculous. Men willing to pay for sex - and women desperate for drugs money or enslaved by pimps or having mental illness is what prostitution is about. Not every woman wants to get married, same with men.



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



Treating women like subhumans is illegal in the west.

And yet, the west, as a culture is ok with turning women into sex objects... in advertisements, movies, tv, pornography, fashion etc?

You think its "freedom" or something warm and fuzzy, but somebody else would think western society treats women as pieces of meat.


It is illegal to go naked in the streets, or to have sex in public.

Yet, pornograhy is 100% legal, not to mention a multi-billion dollar industry.

Even if you disagree with me when I say that porn actresses are basically treated as pieces of meat, but I'm pretty sure you know that they are not exactly watched for their inner beauty or their personality.



edit on 8-5-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


I would like you to address the Phelps family and Westboro Baptist Church in terms of your premise.
What made those adult children leave their family and "church"? MORALS. Where did those morals come from? NOT from their religion, NOT at home. They simply figured it out.

They walked away, and freed themselves of the tyranny of their "father." The only consequence of their strict upbringing to fear God in the Calvinist extreme way was to scar them emotionally for life - and that is my problem with ALL of the Abrahamic religions, ALL of which started in the Mideast and are inappropriate for modern global society.

What would happen to a Muslim who decided to renounce Islam? Especially the "ignorant masses" variety...? Your book says they should be killed. A girl who looks at an unrelated boy? Kill her, too. Maim her, at least. That's "moral" in your opinion?

Why can you not see the difference?

Yes, the Phelps escapees were "cut off" from their family, but welcomed into society and applauded for their courage to do so - they weren't killed for it!!



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


You think its "freedom" or something warm and fuzzy, but somebody else would think western society treats women as pieces of meat.

The exploitation of women is addressed in the West EVERY DAY.
How is forcing a woman to cover herself up except hands and face not "treating them like pieces of meat"? You're all so out of control that if some leg or arm - or God forbid HAIR - shows you go berserk? Please. It's backward and pathetic and indicates an OBSESSION with sex that is unhealthy, and an utter lack of self-control on the part of the men who force them to do so.

Sex is normal and natural - the body can be a beautiful thing and is nothing to be hidden in shame. Men have just as much a tendency to dress provocatively, and they aren't being attacked by women on buses - women are not being attacked on buses, either, or at swimming pools, or ANYWHERE unless they are RAPED and that is WRONG EVERYWHERE.

If a woman decides to become a porn star, that's her choice. Sex is obviously a big issue with the Abrahamic religions - much more so than necessary. Women here are free to dress as they like. Some are very immodest - others are quite modest. It's THEIR CHOICE.

And just yesterday I discovered the existence of the "Burqini"!! WHAT?!! A woman can't even go swimming without a body suit on?
edit on 8-5-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Porn isn't as widespread as you think - some people like it - most do not have anything to do with it.

And it might suprise you to know that people don't have their marriages "arranged" - marriage is BASED on mutual consent and LARGELY on personality. Being attractive is not a sin! MANY people live together before marriage - to make sure they are compatible. Divorce occurs when they discover they are NOT compatible or happy together.

What is it with you people and sex??? It's NORMAL. It's BIOLOGY.

What, you think every western child is exposed to pornography? No!! Children aren't allowed to go to movie theatres with sexual content that is explicit - and child pornography is DEFINITELY 100% ILLEGAL.

For crying out loud, every kid wants to see naked people as they start reaching puberty. Millions looked at magazines like National Geographic just to see the naked breasts of women before "porn" was around - wow. Your impression of the West is really warped.

What country do you live in Skorp, if you don't mind me asking? Fine if you'd rather not say - but it would help my knowledge to know what region you are in.
edit on 8-5-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2013 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



How is forcing a woman to cover herself up except hands and face not "treating them like pieces of meat"? You're all so out of control that if some leg or arm - or God forbid HAIR - shows you go berserk?

When a woman goes out in a skimpy dress does it mean she was forced to do so?
No?
Similarly, when a woman covers herself up does so on her own. Its an act of modesty.



It's backward and pathetic and indicates an OBSESSION with sex that is unhealthy, and an utter lack of self-control on the part of the men who force them to do so.

Actually it is YOUR culture that has an obsession with sex.
It is reflected in your movies and your tv shows and your music videos and your advertisements.



the body can be a beautiful thing and is nothing to be hidden in shame.

The Islamic perspective would be that a womans body is a beautiful thing, BUT only for her husbands eyes, not for the general public. So its not out of "shame", but rather out of dedication to the husband and her religion.

Tell me, would you let yourself be seen "uncovered" by a random stranger?
Why not? Don't you believe the body is a beautiful thing and nothing to be covered?


On a slightly different note, I've had my own experience with women who dress in ways that attract attention from men..... and then they complain that the person looking at them is a perv.




edit on 8-5-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



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