We need Jesus

The evidence shows that both the OT and the NT we have today are very close to the original.

"stupid girl" wrote a good summation on this topic a while back:

Originally posted by stupid girl
The Bible everyone reads now is not edited by the "illuminati". That is a major FAIL. The Masoretic Text is true to the original Hebrew. And we have copious texts in Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew of the New Testament. In fact, it is probably the most verified composite of ancient text in the history of mankind. When you have a gazillion copies of the same damn thing written, translated & copied over the course of hundreds of years, that makes it fairly easy to glean a base-sourced original context.

The "illuminati" as you say, didn't get their grubby paws into the mix until the 4th century AD when the Vulgate was done. Unless you count all their gnostic efforts in the first few centuries up to that point. And even so, most of the New Testament are letters written by the Apostles REFUTING gnostic heresy. That is why we have the canon, and that is why it does not include texts that were even suspect to the influence of gnosticism.

reply to post by SpearMint

Dear SpearMint,

Sorry, I missed that.

You're only referring to a small part of it's history though, just the interpretation.

My source is saying that we have extraordinarily reliable copies of the words that were written. Are you saying that the interpretation has changed? Ok, I'll agree with that. I'm much more reluctant to say the words have changed in any meaningful way.

If I'm missing your point, please try again.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by Frith
I am beyond religion. It serves no purpose in the modern world other than to prop-up old patriarchal methods of social control with fear and bigotry.

You couldn't be ANY more wrong (about it's purpose).

Satan is the author of religion.

This is the reason WHY religion is nothing but lies.

God is the author of truth.

They are opposites and have nothing in common except for the fact that one is real and one is an imposter.

Religion has one purpose: DECEPTION.

reply to post by backcase


Nice poem... Did you write yourself?

Originally posted by kijne
reply to post by CirqueDeTruth

 

True Christianity is not a religion. It's not about going to church every Sunday and it's not about being a "good" person. True Christianity is having a personal relationship with Jesus. You communicate to Jesus through prayer and He communicates to you through you reading the bible. That's what it's all about. Ask Jesus to make himself real to you and read a few chapters a day in the bible (Read the New Testament to start out with). Let me know if I can be of any help to you.

Thank you Kijne.

I have my bible on my computer desk. More often than not, I spend time daily looking up passages I've been led to through reading. I can't say I open the book everyday though. That would be a lie. It's changed me in positive ways too. I've suffered from deep depression and anxiety - and instead of medication I decided to delve into a spiritual teaching I hadn't immersed myself in before. Christ was the lucky one to have to take me on! I'll never drift away from Christ. He's been a source of healing and strength for me. What's more - a lot of you on ATS - has led me to many of these passages that is helping me on my chosen path of healing. Your all awesome.

I also pray and meditate. Every night. I don't skip on that. I love culture. I love all of god's teaching to each of his different variants of us - and I don't know. I'm different. I don't find conflict in taking it all in - all I see are the threads that connect across time, culture, and race - and the beautiful tapestry of us. Humanity. I really do believe we have it in us - to be a reflection of Divinity.

Blessings,
Cirque

reply to post by charles1952

I'm replying to you as a Catholic, and in seriousness. There's more than enough goofiness in this thread already. (Although I did get a chuckle over CirqueDuTruth telling Akragon "You're so funny. You're such a doll." I would have given a nickel to see his reaction. )

Im curious as to what you meant by that...

reply to post by Akragon

Dear Akragon,

I see I've put myself in an embarrassing position. You should know by now that I have a lot of respect for you, and the idea of insulting you never enters my mind.

If you're asking about goofiness in the thread, I'm in a spot. I certainly can't quote an individual poster, that's an insult I don't intend. But in general, it seems that there are many posts, especially in the first few pages which are based on a very "strange" understanding, and a limited knowledge of the subject. I hope that feeble explanation is sufficient.

But the "nickel to see his reaction" business? In the most positive way possible, my impression of you has not been of jokes and comedy. Neither has it been of you as a cute, cuddly, little "doll." Perhaps you are, I don't know, but I suspect your reaction would have been a little blush. Again, I don't know you, I just have an impression. And if I'm wrong, I'd be happy to address you as "Doll" in the future.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


I try my best to keep it light in most cases... And you were spot on... I'm not really good at accepting compliments... I blush and shy away... Might be an alpha male thing...

The gf says im cuddly...

My avatar looks kinda cuddly...

Meh... Maybe i am.... But i wouldn't admit to it...

Er... Whups

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
"We need Jesus so that we can sit on our hands and wait for someone else to fix the world for us."
"We need Jesus because we are sinners from the beginning and are not worthy of salvation."
"We need Jesus because getting up and doing something about the world is too much of a hassle."
We are the ones who should be responsible for taking action, not some guy who died and disappeared 2,000 years ago without a trace.
Don't you see that waiting for Jesus is exactly what has gotten us into this situation today?
Why intervene at all when it's all part of god's plan anyways? Doing something about it would be going against god's will, and we all know what happens when someone goes against god's will, hellfire for eternity. So why not just avoid that and continue to sit on our hands?

I SO AGREE; (distracting; the someones directly above in the postings are having a lovefest (me feels to be made a peeping Tom by these antics). We do not NEED JESUS, he was here already apparently chance of a second coming left with Dec 21,. WHAT WE NEED IS ITS CREATOR; GOD, its footprint not even found (just speculated upon) analysed yet (pretty sure its not a physical being but forces combined of natural occurance to create the potencial for).

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by Frith
I am beyond religion. It serves no purpose in the modern world other than to prop-up old patriarchal methods of social control with fear and bigotry.

Muragtroid
Satan is the author of religion.This is the reason WHY religion is nothing but lies.
God is the author of truth.They are opposites and have nothing in common except for the fact that one is real and one is an imposter.Religion has one purpose: DECEPTION.

This is a hard arguement. If Satan was Created by God and allowed to be the author of religion to the extent of its constituants killing each other over, could you make the arguement that Satan is God? Lucifer is the bringer of enlightenment/knowledge. I see them, or what we understand as God as twin forces duo demi-Gods, the sons of (just like Enlil and Enki), of their True Father Anu/Sumarian reference. Satan and God are opposites and equal in power. One cannot destroy the other, a battle of will good/evil. Who created Whom? there MUST have been a parent to these conceptual twins locked/embraced forever in some sort of WHAT 'dance of eternity' I feel sorry for them, especially if their parent/God was as silent as ours; assuming its the same one.

The Christians do not seem to realize, and this goes for other religions as well... that the feelings, of enlightenment and goodness have nothing to do with "Jesus" or anything else, but with are boiled down to a part of the brain that is triggered by powerful belief.

They also do not seem to realize that these books, religions are created to show them something, and then stop them dead in their tracks in a REAL search for just what is going on here.

And just what is going on EVERYWHERE.

Many are sucked in and DO feel better when they achieve a new level of "knowledge" a great excitement, physiological change, but do not have the tools or the courage to carry on far, far past the ceiling that has been prepared for them.

Those that do, realize that reading any religious texts at all are an actual waste of time, literally, soulfully and end up with the incredible realization that they have gotten actually NOWHERE, in all actuality.

Oh, they are better than in the drug times, the pain times, the hurting...but this is no excuse really, and does not advance or create anything at all.

Whoever created the paradigm on earth and feeds the frequencies to be at such a perfect level for the utmost confusion is truly a good jailkeeper, and they LOVE Christians the most !! Noone else keeps there secret from themselves and everyone else, without even knowing it !!

And all because of FEAR of the same unknown the soul is actually trying to remedy,, and yet cannot because of the misfortune of an artificially "fallen" world.

Originally posted by winofiend
Why do you need a man made concept? One that is personal and different to each individual that embraces it?

You need something inside you. Not an external concept.

oh well..

I am sorry for the history , for followers of Jesus pbum who see that after years of hard work , he was alone among his friends.

And now , he is being neglected ,too.

Jesus was an outside compass , helping human beings clean the glass of their inner compass.

I am really sorry for Materialists who think that they can come with new words like energy and waves , to ignore the 2013 years old works of Jesus pbuh.

We are all dust in the wind , but some people are wind in the wind , they don't even exist.

You can not get any credit by putting these lies and asking others to follow you and give you stars.

How do I say that ?

Because you are so refusing that Jesus pbuh was real , so his mission to ask people get ready for resurrection is fake , the resurrection is fake , so the whole creation is not for a purpose , ......

You couldn't understand these facts and started calling others to follow you.

I doubt 100% that you will support your followers in the judgement day.

The digger the science goes , the more ignorant and arrogant humans become. They do not like to admit that all these systems from eating , digesting , absorbing energy , cardiovascular , breathing , reproduction , bone construction inside human body are working on chaos.

And that all tremendous hierarchy discovered outside is working on chaos and luck and chance.

The digger the science goes , the more ignorant and arrogant humans become.

Very beautiful thread.

Jesus can make us walk on water and stay upon it, as long as our faith and trust rest upon (and cling to) Him.

Yes , and when you walk on it , you will see that it is nothing regarding the power of god.

We need Jesus,

Indeed , but we need to learn how to stick to him no matter what. from this moment.

I find the irony in these claims to be impossible to ignore, i was
told things like this from the time i was old enough to understand
language, jesus and god will somehow have an active role in
your life, the question then always becomes, what does he want
me to do or how does he want me to live, and if that's not enough
you have to wonder how much of the bible your suppose to actually
follow, can you actually be saved so simply the way jesus claims
or did he just ignore gods wishes and make false claims, not
only that but how does one differentiate between a hallucination
and god or jesus speaking to them?

religion has such weak footing to stand on already, claiming god
or jesus play an active role in daily life is completely false, every
test out there would show if there were some special abilities
attributed to any of the major religions...... more lies and false
promises, the irony is they sound like satan in described in the
bible, claims with false promises that never come
true and a mass of people who refuse to ever actually tell
the truth........ O.o

reply to post by backcase


Uhhhh...what? I didn't understand a word you said?

Originally posted by yourmaker
How can people put any type of faith into a supposed 2000 year old son of an eternal being?

Honestly still doesn't make any sense.

What makes the Viking, Greek or Indian gods any different then Jesus?
In terms of validity they have about the same to me.

I agree. All spiritual information is a pointer to the same source and god is teaching on the level the students are able to understand. Some people have gone beyond the limitation of religion or the conditioned idea around them.

The bible is not the true story especially not with Paul the ravenous wolf involved.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
Alright alright.

Now. Where in the Bible does it state that "worry" is a sin?

This is really bothering me. As, I'm pretty sure if there's a God, that God made me - the worrying, caring, sensitive, sentimental optimist that I am. Where does it state that "worry" is something apart from that which God made?

Thanks,
Cirque

edit on 4-5-2013 by CirqueDeTruth because: punctuation

To worry is to question your own actions and to be sure you hit the mark. . It is intelligent and will serve you to behave like a better you than you otherwise would be. But at one point it is good to let go of worrying and say I am going to screw up sometimes but I will always face what I have done and try to fix it when I understand what I have done wrong.

reply to post by backcase

. . . a spiritual war.
It is a war created by the flesh of our self: its desires, hopes, loves, and ego.

An internal war against faith?
Too caught up in the moment to think about what might happen later, after this life?

We need God to get focused a bit on our eventual destiny, whether to proceed onward to another life, or to get caught into a death well connected to our previous life (current, now, "previous" once we die).

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Your statement put me in the mind of Herbert's "Dune".

The human animal. "Let's just say, I suggest you are human, young Paul Atreides..."

I just watched that movie today. Probably why your statement brought it to mind...

Cirque

There is a lot of spiritual truths in those books and even lessons in life thread theory about how one soul can change the whole and the troubles of knowing what will be trying to avoid it.

Without change something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken.

“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.

Be the butterfly effect. Change yourself and your change will effect the whole.

reply to post by jmdewey60


It's more like the external v.s. the internal.

When I decided to change and become more spiritual, a lot of things in my life had to be changed first. Like my passions and habits, that type of stuff. But not only those things but then my ways of thinking about other people. My anger and things like that.

We must discard the first so that we may adopt the second.

A new building cannot be built in the place of an old one unless the old one has been destroyed first.