Surviving An Interrogation - How?

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posted on May, 4 2013 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by Cinrad
I was thinking more in terms of not giving them information that could incriminate you.


I think this, really, is the hingepoint of what you are asking: what is at stake, for who is being tortured. If they tell you it is your wife, husband, child's life....you are more likely to survive and stay silent. This is just my opinion, but it is neither something I am unfamiliar with. It depends upon what is happening to you and what the stakes are.....
For my part, and you will find many who know this technique, I believe, it is about taking your mind away from your body, and perceptions of pain and what is occurring at that moment....understanding that this only "a moment," no more, no less, and it shall pass at some point. Then, taking your mind to some other place you have experienced ultimate joy in life, to escape the pain you are now undergoing.......
Just my thoughts. Hope they are helpful to someone who needs them, for no one should have to endure nor prepare for such. But, reality dictates that this does happen, and for those it happens to, there should be someone they can ask how to come through on the other side of it. And this is part of it, as well, knowing, believing there is another side, and that this will stop at some point, and those hurting you will have to cease and desist, when met with your inability to cave....this is essential, I believe, that you know, without a doubt in your mind, that there is something beyond your perception in the here and now of pain to live for, hold on for.....
Good thread.
Tetra50




posted on May, 4 2013 @ 08:13 PM
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Thanks for your posts so far.

Another thought regarding the police who tell you they have someone who actually "saw you do it". Can you file a complaint against them after the interrogation? I mean that is an outright lie and lies are not professional or ethical behaviour in our civilized world. If you can be charged for lying to the police then why cant they be charged for lying to you? I wonder if it has ever been done? I suppose most people are just glad to get out of there. I wonder if you can file for some kind of damages as they presented you with fabricated evidence of an act you didn't commit, thus causing mental anguish. btw I am a law abiding sheeple and not suspected of anything, just been researching it for possible future reference.

Another question: can you train yourself to get used to waterboarding? Getting used to sexual humiliation is easy enough, just walk around town in a pair of speedos



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by Cinrad
 


"Another thought regarding the police who tell you they have someone who actually "saw you do it". Can you file a complaint against them after the interrogation?"

The short answer is no.

"I mean that is an outright lie and lies are not professional or ethical behaviour in our civilized world. If you can be charged for lying to the police then why cant they be charged for lying to you?"

Because its there game, and there rules!

"I wonder if it has ever been done? I suppose most people are just glad to get out of there. I wonder if you can file for some kind of damages as they presented you with fabricated evidence of an act you didn't commit, thus causing mental anguish. btw I am a law abiding sheeple and not suspected of anything, just been researching it for possible future reference."

The Police would need to actively show malice towards you before any type of complaint would be taken seriously, even then the complaint would be handled internally.

"Another question: can you train yourself to get used to waterboarding? Getting used to sexual humiliation is easy enough, just walk around town in a pair of speedos"

Can you train yourself to get used to drowning? I don't think so all through anything is possible.
edit on 5-5-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by Cinrad


Another question: can you train yourself to get used to waterboarding? Getting used to sexual humiliation is easy enough, just walk around town in a pair of speedos


Find away to kill yourself if captured would be the best defence.



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by Cinrad
Anyone got military training in surviving interrogations both "enhanced" and not?


First a little CV information for you: I am a retired Special Forces Officer. I was also a Military Intelligence Officer and a Counterintelligence Agent. I had the opportunity to attend SERE school of course; however, in addition I was an instructor there along with a member of the staff for the R2I portion of the SAS selection program. I have interrogated countless American Soldiers in training and a good many of enemy actors in real world situations using both traditional and enhanced methods.

First things first – the whole point of our Basic SERE program is two pronged. 1: Is to introduce the operators and other high risk of capture service members to the most common techniques that will likely be used against them should they be captured. 2: Is to prove that no matter how hard you think you are (there is always some SF/Ranger in each class who vows he won’t break) they always do… And that’s in training with pretty strict/soft ROE on what the interrogators can do. Unwritten of course is the rule – best not to get captured at all.

Note that I didn’t say “how to resist these techniques” – everyone must develop their own special place to which to retreat in those situations. It simply cannot be taught. There are levels of SERE training above the basic that do teach operators how to construct and use a mnemonic for recalling a cover story under duress including the use of drugs. There is also a course that teaches the methods for passing a polygraph while lying your ass off. Those are reserved for Tier 1 operators and are rather unpleasant in nature. Those techniques are classified.

However, basic resistance is not classified and basically can be summed up in the following way:

The best tool an interrogator has is the fear of the unknown. The subject is experiencing what we call “the shock of capture” and the knowledge that he is completely at the mercy of the man sitting across from him. Knowing what that man can, and will most likely do according to his own organizational rules empowers the subject to resist. Which is why when Barry told terrorist we don’t torture; well it took a lot of the wind out of our sails. The actual enhanced methods were hardly ever needed but the fear/threat of them was most often enough to get them talking.

Knowledge about what common methods might be used and recognizing them is the key to resistance. Interrogators basically follow a script. Starting with simply building rapport (American Military/LEO preferred methods) or building the sense of hopelessness and fear. Rapport interrogations always net more valuable and actionable information – period. However, some people simply are too well trained/stubborn or dedicated to their cause to talk that is where manipulation and fear conditioning/response come in.

Since you seem to be interested in LEO interrogation I’ll concentrate on that.

Most LEO’s are trained in the REID interrogation technique. I know the source is wiki but it is accurate.

en.wikipedia.org...

Knowing how the interrogation will go down will help you understand why not to say anything. Note in the steps - they are not really asking for the truth… I have trained with LEO’s in several courses paid for by our government (Behavioral Symptoms Analysis, Statement Analysis, KENISC techniques, REID technique etc).

They scare me really, seeing them in action in the classroom led me to one conclusion – should I ever be arrested or questioned by a LEO or I will not say a friggin word – period.

I even have a card in my wallet that I will simply hand them without having to say anything at all that contains my lawyers name and contact information invoking my rights.

Don’t get me wrong there are probably some good cops out there but most of them are after one thing and it is not necessarily the truth. It is a confession or words that they can twist into charges and a conviction.

In addition to the knowing the Steps in the REID technique it is good to know some of the more standard methods of manipulation



•bluffing
•Good guy, Bad guy
•Guilty Knowledge Technique (for Polygraph)
•Fear
•Blatant neglect
•False identification
www.sageofspringfield.com...


Regarding the legality of police deception and your recourse – this is a good compilation of case law and discussion. In summary, they can pretty much lie their asses off and you have no recourse…

Best to just keep your mouth shut and say nothing IMO.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 12:48 AM
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What Golf said . . .

I've been trained in interview and interrogation techniques, myself. I used to interview (interrogate) those in a corporate setting, where the only technique you can really use is "good cop" . . . without the "bad". So, I don't have a background in military techniques . . . but, I do have a background in psychology and if you are talking military . . . there really is no way to survive, unless they want you to.

As it seems you are talking about LEOs it really matters who trained them, as well. While many LEO and Gov agents are trained in Reid . . . many others are trained in Wicklander/Zulawski, or even both. Certain subjects respond better to differing techniques.

I've been trained in W/Z, which involves the use of neuro-linguistics, body language, and overcoming objection. Reid is basically a mind game, where they get you on the defensive and then try to trip up your story. It's a lot easier to "frame" someone with Reid. Reid also leads to many "false confessions" and is quickly being seen as unreliable to many interviewers/interrogators. LEOs can also be more aggressive and use psych techniques to make you uncomfortable, like the bright light shining in your face, denying you food or drink, yelling, threatening, and banging you around, letting you sit unattended for extended periods before entering, etc . . . this is just to break you down before interrogation and make you more likely to talk when they enter.

If you can spot that they are using Reid, as Golf said, just sit and shut up . . . they won't have anything to stand on or lead them. That's when they usually try the "good cop-bad cop" routine . . . to soften you up and get you to start talking . . . part of the mind game. WIth W/Z, they are non-accusatory and "nice" the whole time, so it's harder to "spot" . . . the appearance is that you are just talking. However, the W/Z interviewer is not paying attention to your words as much as your behavior. If you are showing deceptive behavior (which you can't control, as it is your body's auto-response) . . . they keep going. Also, they are going to randomly place names, actions, places that go along with your suspected act (such as listing their responsibilities in investigation and saying your act in the middle of the list) and pausing just a bit longer than their usual speech pattern after mention. If your body language changes or you give neuro-linguistic "tells" (again it's part of the body's auto-response) . . . their suspicions are confirmed. Once they get enough "tells" . . . they will ask, not accuse, "when was the first time" or "how many times have you". A person, when denying, will inhale before answering . . . A person, when admitting, will exhale before answering. If you inhale . . . they won't even let you answer and change the subject.

Also, all interviewers/interrogators are going to lie . . . a lot. It's totally legal and you have no recourse. There are no ethical codes in enticing someone to admit to something.

Also, and very important, if they had/have indisputable evidence for your suspected act . . . you wouldn't be sitting in an interview room. You would be in jail awaiting arraignment. So, the fact that they are even talking to you means they don't have the evidence they need to convict you of anything.

As said above . . . if LEO/Gov agent or corporate . . . the best advice is to never say a word. Don't even answer questions like "is your name?", "do you live at?", "how you feeling?". Just sit there and shut up. If you ever say anything . . . it should only be "am I under arrest?". If the answer is no . . . then leave. However, Golf's suggestion of simply giving them a card with your lawyer's name on it is a great idea. Keep one handy, just in case.

edit on 5/6/13 by solomons path because: (no reason given)
edit on 5/6/13 by solomons path because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 01:03 AM
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This may seem odd, but if you are being interrogated and are innocent, just keep shut, but if mind techniques are being used convince yourself that your guilty. DONT verbally say a thing, there are certain facial movements that your mind can control no matter what your mouth or eyes say.

This is the easiest way to confuse anyone that has "perfected" that technique, there will be no reading you. There are plenty of pieces of information on how to read faces, there are even ways that you can tell if someone is laughing at your joke genuinely or not, your mind controls your face, but there will be no one unless they read this that will think that you would mentally prepare yourself for guilt, especially if you are innocent.


There is nothing more frustrating then for the person who is aiming to get information to continuously deal with you if you are either making them look bad, or to be honest, your just not reliable for any information in the first place.

Just my 2 cents


Peace, NRE.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 01:17 AM
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Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
This may seem odd, but if you are being interrogated and are innocent, just keep shut, but if mind techniques are being used convince yourself that your guilty. DONT verbally say a thing, there are certain facial movements that your mind can control no matter what your mouth or eyes say.

This is the easiest way to confuse anyone that has "perfected" that technique, there will be no reading you. There are plenty of pieces of information on how to read faces, there are even ways that you can tell if someone is laughing at your joke genuinely or not, your mind controls your face, but there will be no one unless they read this that will think that you would mentally prepare yourself for guilt, especially if you are innocent.


There is nothing more frustrating then for the person who is aiming to get information to continuously deal with you if you are either making them look bad, or to be honest, your just not reliable for any information in the first place.

Just my 2 cents


Peace, NRE.



You are talking about neuro-linguistics, as I mentioned above. That's why I said to not even answer the questions like "is your name" or "verify your address" . . . this give the interviewer a baseline for your responses, just like the first few innocuous questions during a polygraph.

One of the best "tells" for neuro-linguistics is your eye movement just before your response. If you eyes move (or twitch) up and to the left . . . you are constructing an image (act) or "lying" . . . up and to the right and you are recalling or remember an image (act) or "telling the truth".

However, no matter how much you "concentrate" or know the "tells" you still will make them and a good interrogator will be able to spot them. I've had some subject go "rigid", thinking if they just sit still and focus straight ahead there will be no "tells". This in and of itself is a "tell", as it looks unnatural. A good interrogator will know if you are trying to overcome the "tells" that your body/mind automatically make . . . everyone is wired the same way and showing "nothing" just tells them you know what they are looking for. That is deceptive and gives them more ammo . . .

If you go the other way, as you suggest . . . they can spot that too. Some people just have a "guilty conscious" and that is the purpose of the baseline questioning.

edit on 5/6/13 by solomons path because: (no reason given)
edit on 5/6/13 by solomons path because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 01:48 AM
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reply to post by Golf66
 
Well I did know some off the wall SHTF whack jobs that just by talking to them would make any a SEAL squirm.

Some where of the Mil and or police that did not make the cut,or did but did not make the grade, {SEC 8's if you know what I mean, or just to mean to keep their job}, but would er could make anyone talk in just a few sec. Just by talking with them, and some of the ideas... { just a few of their toys they would bring up}
tooth picks,
vice grips
hot pokers or branding irons,
bolt cutters
barb wire,and
blow torch
Pneumatic Nail Gun.
just to name a few.

That where to be applied to certain parts of the human body, mail, female did not matter, if they wanted the info ie, water, food, ammo, camp site, nearest force..., {in their minds the more to confront the merrier‎,} to test their skills,Is my thinking.

Some might say they where just talking the talk, but to look in into their eyes or see the smiles on their faces, you knew they where just sick and creepy!!

I was warned, because i did not go along with their ways of thinking, to stay away of their "camp" so if you are in the WEST Desert of Utah and the SHTF or the mountains west of SLC do not stay, for they might be there all ready. The LEO's here know of them, some like I said are ex police, and a few where Mil Police, and some form Iraq/ Afghanistan wars or so they said dog tags and ID badges.

Could have been fake ones, but then they could be real ones, I wouldn't know a current US Armed force ID if it jumped up and bit me on my you know what, but i was in and can only go by what i remember, ID does change over time for security reasons how often i do not know, with police anyone can get a badge, or be known by them for any number of reasons.

The worst part was i worked with them building homes, this is what they would talk about all day, or the new firearm ammo or weapon of the day week or month and the" got to get it!", if you know what I mean.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 02:01 AM
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OP, you have a great business idea. Get some mustered out operators and develop a civilian SERE-C class. People would pay you to be locked in a mud pit in the rain then waterboarded, slapped around, and hit with a telephone (do they still do that?).

Teach 'em to eat bugs as well.

There's a place in Huntsville that does E&E but not survival or resistance.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 05:36 AM
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Originally posted by Bedlam
OP, you have a great business idea. Get some mustered out operators and develop a civilian SERE-C class. People would pay you to be locked in a mud pit in the rain then waterboarded, slapped around, and hit with a telephone (do they still do that?).

Teach 'em to eat bugs as well.

There's a place in Huntsville that does E&E but not survival or resistance.


lmao. If I was that kind of person I probably would take your advice, but I just can't see me doing it.

I went through the selection process for a job as an "intelligence analyst" years ago, I got pretty far along the process, interviews, IQ test, psych test, then another interview at which they told me it was really for field officers. I just scuttled the interview right there by saying "I can't lie, I am no good at it and I hate it."

I later thought about how easy it would have been for them to get their next Sirhan Sirhan or Lee Oswald had they needed one. I couldn't tell anyone where I was or what I was going to be doing that day as conditions for the interview. I went to a building witch required a key in the elevator to get to the floor they were holding the interviews. I went through 2 security doors in to the bowels of the office to have the interview. Had I disappeared that day, no one would have known anything.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 06:00 AM
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Everybody talks at some point. If you were captured and had important info, the question would be: How fast can I kill myself before they get to the torture?. There are a couple of ways that come to mind: If your hands are tied, bite through the thickest part of your tongue, wait for a mouthful of blood, inhale the blood. It's gonna hurt like nothing you've ever felt. Or so I would think. If your hands are free, chew through your wrists. Again, this may be a bit painful. It all comes down to how important the info is and what you're prepared to do to protect it.
Sorry, feelin' a little gruesome this mornin'.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 06:04 AM
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reply to post by Cinrad
 


Ha. Found it. It's called "Aviation Challenge" and it's in Huntsville. I would have sworn they ran adults through as a special order course but I don't see past high school anymore. It's sort of like the SERE version of Space Camp, they're affiliated with Space Camp.

Yah, I used to have a link to the 'graduation photos' from SERE-C, they snap a pic of you on the way out, it's an interesting mix of fatigue, hunger, dirt and '# you' on most people's faces. You generally don't want to get between those guys and the BK. On the other hand, SERE makes BK actually taste good.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by Bedlam
OP, you have a great business idea. Get some mustered out operators and develop a civilian SERE-C class. People would pay you to be locked in a mud pit in the rain then water boarded, slapped around, and hit with a telephone (do they still do that?).

Teach 'em to eat bugs as well.

There's a place in Huntsville that does E&E but not survival or resistance.


The liability insurance would be so cost prohibitive as to be unworkable. I mean you’d have to charge so much for the class that only corporate big wigs could afford it.

In my research there are a few companies that do provide "how to survive rescue and capture/kidnapping classes". Thier clients are all rich high value people/CEOs and stuff like that.

All it would take is screwing up one person in the scenario one wrong judgment call and no liability waiver in the world would stop a jury from awarding them the whole pinyata.

A person who squeaked through their own pre-psych eval and physical with a Dr. who didn't really know what they are asking for...

I mean I am sure that you know Bedlam there are always a percentage of each SERE C class who not only don't perform well but end up needing some sessions with the doc before they can go back to their units.

If that happened to some big wig CEO corporate type you'd have nothing left literally.

I have considered the idea to be honest but don't see a way past the liability for dicking up someone for life by inadvertantly drawing out some childhood trauma or sparking a PTSD relapse and ending up with a post course suicide and the poor house.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 06:16 AM
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reply to post by bekod
 


We used to have those occasional talks that would have been campfire story time if we had a campfire.

You'd hear stories about ways to torture people that would curl your toes. The one that stuck out for me was the "100 questions of the Lubyanka", back in those days the Lubyanka was like Mordor, if one of us got caught in the wrong place common knowledge was that your fate was sure to be shipped off to the Lubyanka, never to be seen again.



"The Lubyanka"

Anyway, a common interrogation technique there was rumored to be the much-feared "100 questions" torture.

It involved insertion of one of these:


into your bunghole, and plugged into one of these:


set to "0". That's a 'variac'. It adjusts the voltage level of the AC from the wall to whatever appliance you'd like to run from non-standard power. So, at "0", no output. There's 100 steps you can set to, one for each percentage of output.

So they supposedly started out at 0. And repeated the question 100 times, increasing the setting each time by 1 percent.

Me, personally, I think you could show it to me and before you could get "Ya, tovarisch..." out of your mouth, I'd be telling you whatever I thought would make you happy. I am not big on being tortured. You're going to talk anyway, might as well get that out of the way up front while all your teeth and nails are still in the right place. Now, you might not tell them the exact truth. But if you think it out ahead of time, you can be mighty convincing while telling them something not as useful as it might be.
edit on 6-5-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 08:08 AM
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If you mean investigation by authorities, during current times:


Best advice is don't talk to them without your lawyer being present, EVER, I cant stress that enough!


Is right on the money, and includes not writing anything down, etc.

If in some kind of survivalist situation...everybody talks, eventually, this isn't the movies. Talk sooner rather than later, and less torture.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 
well you do know that by law, we the US are battlefield, and when arrested give your Name, state your a Noncombatant, give your SS number and request a lawyer, this can be put on card but it must be in your hand when you arrested,



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by bekod
 


In a SHTF event, the law won't matter.

While the law exists though, the military will defer to the civilian courts for a US citizen, even though empowered under the Patriot Act to do otherwise. This is because there is precedence. Same reason the Boston bomber was processed through the courts vs. shipped to Gitmo.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by Cinrad
 


I think a lot of guys came back from Vietnam much more screwed up, mentally, then they ever should have been or needed to be after being prisoners of the North Vietnamese. The whole reason, as I've read it and come to share the feeling is that they had the belief in those days, instilled into them, that 'Real men don't talk'. Well... Yes... They do. 100% of the time. Without exception. EVERYONE breaks. EVERY time and torture does work, without exceptions.

The question is only in how far the interrogators will take it for whether they cross your personal threshold of pain and suffering. ...or perhaps you'd be the exception in a rare fluke and not let physical suffering effect you. So, they bring in someone else and let them suffer for you. If one method doesn't work, another will.

I'd simply say, if it's U.S Law Enforcement? Stick to your rights and don't let them trick you into anything by words alone, no matter what is said. No Matter What. However, if it's not U.S. Police or it's become physical and it's clear it will be taken to further levels? Don't fight with the idea you'll win. You'll only end up telling them everything as a thoroughly broken man or woman, instead of having something of yourself left when it's done.

* If all else fails ....there are chemical methods as well, as a last resort ...or so I've heard. If you force it that far? Your coming out of it as the same thinking person you started it as ...isn't an important goal of the process anymore, IMO.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I think a lot of guys came back from Vietnam much more screwed up, mentally, then they ever should have been or needed to be after being prisoners of the North Vietnamese. The whole reason, as I've read it and come to share the feeling is that they had the belief in those days, instilled into them, that 'Real men don't talk'. Well... Yes... They do. 100% of the time. Without exception. EVERYONE breaks. EVERY time and torture does work, without exceptions.


Post Korean War the Code of Conduct was drafted because of the indoctrination attempts on American POW's in 1955.

After Vietnam the code was changed for the first time to clarify that giving more than the big 4 doesn't make one a collaborator.


The military has changed countless times since the introduction of the Code of Conduct in 1955, but the code itself has changed just twice. Its words were made gender neutral. The other change, initiated after the Vietnam War, clarified that service members may provide their captors more than just what Erickson calls "the big four": name, rank, Social Security number and birth date.

www.defense.gov...


It was apparent that over a long period of time repetitive sessions would break anyone's will to resist. The goal for US servicemen is to resist as long as possible so that all relevant mission related information can be changed (Plans, orders, communications frequencies etc) before it can be used against your fellows. Holding out for 72 hours post capture is usually long enough for any operational changes to be implemented.

I honestly don't understand how/why anyone would succumb to the LEO methods...

Regarding military and enhanced methods...


Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Don't fight with the idea you'll win. You'll only end up telling them everything as a thoroughly broken man or woman, instead of having something of yourself left when it's done.


I've been on both sides of this one, once in real world situation I was captured by the Egyptian Border Patrol, fully armed and not invited into their nation.

Full (or availiable) story here www.abovetopsecret.com...

Fear of the unknown and being completely at the mercy of another is usually enough to break most men. I have broken men in interrogations all over the globe - it is surprisingly easy once you figure out what their motivation is. It is fairly sad really to see a proud man broken - it drains a little of one's soul each time; even if he is one's enemy.


Originally posted by Wrabbit2000* If all else fails ....there are chemical methods as well, as a last resort ...or so I've heard. If you force it that far? Your coming out of it as the same thinking person you started it as ...isn't an important goal of the process anymore, IMO.


If you get to chemical methods you are being hosted by someone who doesn't really much care how you come out on the other end. I have only seen this in "training" and it not as effective as it would sound. Chemical interrogation is tricky it is used only in certain particular circumstances....

See Here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

The drugs used will not make you talk like the movies they only amplify whatever you are currently feeling so if you miss time it - you can end up with the opposite effect. This is real spook level # not used in military interrogations. Requires all kinds of national command authority, doctors and crap like that...
edit on 6/5/2013 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)





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