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Despite all the Hype by Religion and Science, Human beings really Know nothing!

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posted on May, 3 2013 @ 08:33 PM
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Human beings really now nothing around Natures true Reality!

Lets put aside our human ego for a moment and asks ourselves applying succinctly, objective and honest thought what do we really know about the nature of reality and her truths. The truths im referring to are those everyday ones, we have learnt and being exposed to in our lifes by the ideas institutions encompassed by Religion and Science.

Can a human irrefutably verify that God is real = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that Dark matter is real = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify what true morality is = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that the speed of light is a constant = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify the nature of physical reality = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that Ufos dont exist = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that time exists = NO
Can a human irrefutably verify that God is interested in Religion = NO

Im sure you get the ideas of my argument, and im sure can add your own points to expanding the list.

This is not a long OP, as there doesnt seem a lot of point saying alot here as i ponder as I sip my Coffee on this Saturday morning. What can be verified, other than the only thing im certain of now, is this coffee is giving me the pick up i need despite its cheap taste , and that you reading this are grining at my ramble as you think up your reply?


edit on 3-5-2013 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 3 2013 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by AthlonSavage
 


What is proof to some humans...is not proof at all to others. Each individual has their own truths and what is real and not real to them. This is what I believe.



posted on May, 3 2013 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by AthlonSavage

Can a human irrefutably verify that God is real = NO

Can a human irrefutably verify that God is not real?=NO

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Can a human irrefutably verify that Dark matter is real = NO

Can a human irrefutably verify that Dark matter is not real = NO

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Can a human irrefutably verify that the speed of light is a constant = NO

Actually it has already been proven that under the correct conditions the speed of light can actually be slowed and bent.


Just because something has not been proven 100% to exist does not mean that it does not exist. Example: I cannot see your brain, but I assume that you have one since you typed out the OP, but that is still not irrefutable proof to me that it actually exists. See how that works.
Just because something has not been proven to exist does not mean that it doesn't. The only way to be certain that it does not exist is to provide irrefutable proof that it does not in fact exist. If you cannot prove that it does not exist then there is the remote possibility regardless how small that it in fact does exist.



posted on May, 3 2013 @ 08:54 PM
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Descartes showed that the only thing we can absolutely know, is our own existence in the present moment. Nothing else, whatsoever. Some philosophers even assert that we can't even know our own existence.

When you understand this, you'll realize that the entirety our lives are constructed around probabilities and reasonable assumptions. You have faith in the existence of other minds besides yours. You have faith that the sun will rise the next day. You have faith that you're not living in some sort of matrix. You had faith that your breakfast this morning wouldn't poison you. Faith is inevitable, if you want to survive in this world.




Actually it has already been proven that under the correct conditions the speed of light can actually be slowed and bent.


Apparently intense gravity slows time, as well as the speed of light. Cool, huh?
edit on 3-5-2013 by TheFriendlyDragon because: added the thing about light



posted on May, 3 2013 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by SpaDe_
 


I do see you points and they are valid ones. I will add however the data being collected as proof of reality is only as good as the reliability of its measuring sensors to measure it.

Now just to ensure im getting some mileage out of my coffee this morning let me try this thought experiment.

Lets consider the possibility that reality is viewable and interpretable from infinite reference points, and that we humans are fixed in our reality to a limited and very similar and common set of reference points, for example Christianity compared with Islam.

Then by extension our human senses, brain functions and the equipment we construct to measure the unseen reality verse, are manufacturered within the reality that the human reference set of points encircle, and therefore that woould make it incapable using presental technolohocal instrumentation, experiments or our senses to ever be able to reveal the true nature of reality.



posted on May, 3 2013 @ 09:15 PM
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I quote from wikipedia:



The five-minute hypothesis is a skeptical hypothesis put forth by the philosopher Bertrand Russell that proposes that the universe sprang into existence five minutes ago from nothing, with human memory and all other signs of history included. It is a commonly-used example of how one may maintain extreme philosophical skepticism with regards to memory.




Simulated reality is the hypothesis that reality could be simulated—for example by computer simulation—to a degree indistinguishable from "true" reality, and may in fact be such a simulation. It could contain conscious minds which may or may not be fully aware that they are living inside a simulation.


(Remember the matrix?)



The dream argument is the postulation that the act of dreaming provides preliminary evidence that the senses we trust to distinguish reality from illusion should not be fully trusted, and therefore any state that is dependent on our senses should at the very least be carefully examined and rigorously tested to determine whether it is in fact reality.


These three theories give rise to skepticism of all scientific knowledge we have. As I said before, it all comes down to probabilities and reasonable assumptions.
edit on 3-5-2013 by TheFriendlyDragon because: added external quote



posted on May, 3 2013 @ 09:51 PM
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Can a human being verify anything other than his or her own existence? No.
/thread



posted on May, 3 2013 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Human beings really now nothing around Natures true Reality!

Lies.

We don't know a lot or everything but we know several hundred times more than we did three thousand or more years ago.


Can a human irrefutably verify that God is real = NO

This one doesn't count, because mostly we have a bunch of persons saying that God exists but we just can't use science to communicate with that being, or it exists outside space and time which means outside of nature.

Nature is space and time as we know it.


Can a human irrefutably verify that Dark matter is real = NO

Dark matter is a proposed model for this we specifically can't account for so why is this surprising to you?


Can a human irrefutably verify what true morality is = NO

No, and in all likelyhood unless that 'God' that exists outside of space and time comes and tells us ... it's pretty likely true morality is a concept modeled by humans.


Can a human irrefutably verify that the speed of light is a constant = NO

We're a lot closer than thousand years ago that's for sure.


Can a human irrefutably verify the nature of physical reality = NO

If physical reality is all there is then your answer is actually no, since that God out of space and time can't be accessed by us inside reality. Even the most advanced intelligence likely can't answer this question.


Can a human irrefutably verify that Ufos dont exist = NO

Oddly enough, no you can't claim unidentified flying objects don't exist until you verify all objects but you can't know all objects until you're sure you can see them all ... ergo ... this will always no. Hardly surprising.


Can a human irrefutably verify that time exists = NO

Actually time does exist. It's a model which we use to understand the reality we live in and make predictions rather successfully.

Our model of time is not actually a reality. It's a collection of maths.


Can a human irrefutably verify that God is interested in Religion = NO

I'd say the fact that God has left his homework assignment lying around on a rock in space answers that question sufficiently.

It's deductive reasons which is what I've been using for most of this I imagine.


you reading this are grining at my ramble as you think up your reply?

More of an awkward squint actually. Can't sleep properly and have no coffee but will try to grin more next time.

Thanks OP.



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 01:08 AM
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We don't know a lot or everything but we know several hundred times more than we did three thousand or more years ago.


Everything that science has taught us in the last three thousand years, cannot be absolutely proved.

Why can't it be proved?

You may think--I can prove the sky exists! I am looking at it right now, so I know it exists. No, you don't know! For all you know, you are dreaming or you are in a computer-simulated world (the matrix). Is it likely? No, but it's possible. And if it's possible, that means you don't absolutely know that the sky exists.

You can follow this skeptical/doubting line of reasoning for just about everything science has taught you, thus debunking any claims to knowledge that you have. In the end, the only truth that you can't doubt, is your own existence.

So, apparently, there is only one thing in the universe that we absolutely know. Or, do we?
edit on 4-5-2013 by TheFriendlyDragon because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by TheFriendlyDragon
 





So, apparently, there is only one thing in the universe that we absolutely know. Or, do we?



The only thing i absolutely know in this thread is that you have a good Avatar.
Now consider the possibility that we are manifestations of consciousness. Then the reality we perceive is a manifestation also of that conscious mechanism.



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by TheFriendlyDragon
Everything that science has taught us in the last three thousand years, cannot be absolutely proved.

Absolutely is an interesting word, but still ...

The theory of gravity helps us predict events that will occur in the real word. Thus it is 'proven' in the context of what I'm saying. It has a purpose and a use in the reality I inhabit.

If you want to fantasize that you personally are in a unique and different reality to myself, I can't stop you; though I furiously doubt its productivity.. Probability-wise though ... I'm going to suggest my reality most likely exists even if I don't always interpret it correctly.


You may think--I can prove the sky exists! I am looking at it right now, so I know it exists. No, you don't know! For all you know, you are dreaming or you are in a computer-simulated world (the matrix).

Where would philosophy be without deconstructionist mind games?

If the Matrix exists then the theory of gravity is relative and productive to my reality and thus proven in my reality. The existence of layers of reality does not inhibit my ability to experience current events and predict future events via knowledge in my own reality.

Meanwhile I'd contend that deconstruction and wishful thinking do often get in the way of logical progress.



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by AthlonSavage
 


Yes, and the problem is with the many humans who don't *know* that they know nothing...



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 07:33 AM
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reply to post by TheFriendlyDragon
 

Originally posted by TheFriendlyDragon
So, apparently, there is only one thing in the universe that we absolutely know. Or, do we?

I am/This is.... the great mystery.

I am loving that I am.
Good to see you here.
edit on 4-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


why the great mystery and not just a mystery?



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 09:15 AM
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Now consider the possibility that we are manifestations of consciousness. Then the reality we perceive is a manifestation also of that conscious mechanism.

I did not quite grasp what you were saying. Did you say, that possibly the entire universe and us is the manifestation of someone's consciousness--like God? So we're all just manifestations of God's imagination? (If that's what you meant, cool idea!)


Originally posted by Pinke

The theory of gravity helps us predict events that will occur in the real word. Thus it is 'proven' in the context of what I'm saying. It has a purpose and a use in the reality I inhabit.

If you want to fantasize that you personally are in a unique and different reality to myself, I can't stop you; though I furiously doubt its productivity.. Probability-wise though ... I'm going to suggest my reality most likely exists even if I don't always interpret it correctly.

You need to be careful. When you go about philosophy, it's not a good idea to scorn mind games. Sure, they may seem impossible and highly hypothetical, but they have a purpose--they're supposed to demonstrate possible errors in your reasoning.



If the Matrix exists then the theory of gravity is relative and productive to my reality and thus proven in my reality. The existence of layers of reality does not inhibit my ability to experience current events and predict future events via knowledge in my own reality. .

But you see--if you live in the matrix, then you don't know that the theory of gravity is true, because you can't guarantee that the law of gravity will still be true in five seconds. Who knows? In five seconds, the law of gravity may be reversed or suspended. So you can't predict the future.

You can't tell me if the law of gravity was true in the past, either. What if your memories are false--maybe someone performed inception on your brain and gave you memories of things that never happened?



Meanwhile I'd contend that deconstruction and wishful thinking do often get in the way of logical progress.

Philosophical skepticism (aka doubting) is what MAKES logical progress. It's what helps us to form a reliable worldview, discover errors in our reasoning, and understand reality and ourselves in clarity to the best of our ability.

Once you have deconstructed knowledge, it doesn't have to stay deconstructed. You can rebuild it, building upon the foundation of whatever truths you discovered--in my case, the most self-evident absolute truths I discovered, are the three laws of logic and "I think therefor I am." And every scrap of knowledge I have, is built upon those truths.
edit on 4-5-2013 by TheFriendlyDragon because: fixed quote



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 09:55 AM
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I have always thought that we are never actually figuring out how things work, just watching, observing and labeling. Then some where along the line somebody creates a mathematical model to predict things.

The actual WHY of things is never, never answered. You cant answer why is this attracted to that, you can make a mathematical model to predict what may happen the next time.



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by AthlonSavage
 


What is proof to some humans...is not proof at all to others. Each individual has their own truths and what is real and not real to them. This is what I believe.


I don't know if we've discussed this before, but I wholeheartedly disagree with that belief. I find it amazing how soooo many people here create their own definitions to words (myself included).

If we listed all the definitions we give to "God" it would read like this: An all-powerful male or female or both, an ethereal being with no physical properties, one that is all consciousness, intelligent alien beings, an evil loving being; creator of the universe that doesn't watch over it; creator of the universe that watches over every aspect of your life - including your thoughts.

When it comes to the words 'Proof' and 'Truth', they should mean irrefutable evidence and logic, incapable of being reduced to personal belief. Some humans may make a personal choice to deny proof and truth, but it doesn't alter proof and truth in any way. Individuals cannot have their own truth. If something is true for one person, then it is true for all. Anything less than this is false belief.



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 08:26 AM
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Secretly everyone here would want to live in the Matrix. If it were perfectly controlled, it would be the perfect solution to everything even immortality as another Neo would simply upload him/her self into a new cloned body. But those are thoughts for future generations as humanity still believes itself to be little and petty and maybe because of that chooses to act that way most of the time. Even with computers and so a new example on how to deal with the mind what do many humans do instead of imagining new possibilities? They twitter about doing a no.1, download porn, buy things or discuss these things on boards all of which I'm guilty of too except the no.1 part.

But seriously most can't seize their own power to create or program their own Matrix because it appears too grand and humans are small creatures or it is just too silly or alienating, there are so many reasons to be found. Given the option tomorrow to exchange this existence for a completely controlled world where imagination is the only limit I bet most would choose to. But the price would be one would be convinced of certain truths while the other may not be so there would be obvious differences diminishing the sense of truly all being here like being on the same vibe with shared truths which logically gives rise to feelings of loneliness worsened by the knowledge the others' experience is different and some things can't be shared as it's existence in the eyes of the other can't be validated.
edit on 5/5/2013 by Dragonfly79 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Human beings really now nothing around Natures true Reality!


edit on 3-5-2013 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)


Humans know a lot of things. 1+1 = 2. Absolutely true! All geometry, algebra, arithmetic, calculus, indeed all mathematics, deals with things that we can know for sure are true. That's a lot to begin with. You could spend your entire lifetime just learning about all the things we know to be true in mathematics alone. It's an immense amount of knowledge. No one person can absorb it all today.

So, there are things that we can know, and be certain about, that we have the truths down pat.

However, there are also alot of "ill defined questions", that deal with "vague concepts", and because we don't understand even the questions themselves, it is impossible to answer them.

Does God exist?

That's an example. First, you'd have to explain to me, what you mean by the term "God", and what kind of "Existence" are we talking about. Is this a creature that walks about in the flesh somewhere like us. Is that what is meant by "exist" ? etc..the question itself, is ill defined. So, until someone can phrase the question better, it can't be answered.

The only thing we ever end up doing, attempting to answer question like this, is throw up more ill defined terms to engage in a dialog.

So, we know things, that have well defined questions.

And everything we do not know, we lack knowledge of, because we can't even specify the question properly.

Once you can pose the right question, we can answer that question with definitive knowledge, or at least point the way to acquire that knowledge if we haven't found it yet.

That's a tremendous amount of knowledge possessed by mankind.

So, it's not true to say we know nothing.

We know a a lot of things, and there are a lot of other knowable things waiting for us to find.



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by AthlonSavage
 


And yet even with all the things you listed science is still the best path to truth. It makes planes fly and batteries store energy

Its a pity it took so long for people to understand skepticism. Think of all the suffering we could have avoided.



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