Do you doubt afterlife? reincarnation? ghosts or malicious spirits? then please, read this.

PryinOpen3rdeye:

...some of the stories contained therein are absolutely astonishing.

I don't doubt that they are 'astonishing', but you need to ask yourself a very important question...are they true? A second question to ask is (if you're willing to give benefit of the doubt)...how can I determine the truth of them?

Good luck with that!

I've always tended to be a skeptic about off the wall things and ideas, but always keep an open mind. I do know that one of my own kids, my youngest son, used to come to me when he was VERy young- say 2-3 years of age, and he would tell me this story, that could in no way could've come off of TV or a movie he watched- my kids weren't allowed to watch much tv. Then he would say at the end, remember mom? Remember before? Unfortunately, he didn't have the vocabulary (yet) to describe in detail what he was remembering. I didn't discourage him, in fact I encouraged ALL of my kids, to explore ALL of their talents and abilities. Later, we were able to match what he said to real historical places and people. I won't go into details, as I haven't asked his permission to post such a personal experience.

From my own childhood- we lived in a very old Sears- Roebuck home that was built in the late 1860's. It was quite haunted, and we were able to figure out who it was. The upstairs attic door- we had a walk up attic- would often slam open and shut in the middle of the night, even if it had been locked before bedtime. More than once I felt a very COLD hand placed upon my shoulder, while sleeping and while awake. (it woke me up real fast) The house since has been torn down- sometime in the last 5 years, and nothing remains of my childhood home but a field of soybeans.

It made a believer out of me- that there are just some things we cannot explain as of yet. There are still mysteries in the world, and that is a good thing.

Unfortunately OP no matter what evidence you present the only proof that will work for a non-believer is if they experience from the first person perspective.

I was once a person that believed people were full of it, until I have an involuntary OBE and it rocked my entire world.

Peace,

RT

This thread does nothing to prove anything regarding the afterlife, reincarnation, ghosts, or malicious spirits. Its just a link to a collection of anecdotes of an incredibly small fraction of the human population.

reply to post by SpearMint

These can't be considered evidence for previous lives because there's so many possible explanations.

Yeah, but Occam/Ockham's Razor is stupid....Yeah, there are millions of possible explanations for lots of things....Doesn't make the most realistic or 'simple' the truth....

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by SpearMint

 

These can't be considered evidence for previous lives because there's so many possible explanations.

Yeah, but Occam/Ockham's Razor is stupid....Yeah, there are millions of possible explanations for lots of things....Doesn't make the most realistic or 'simple' the truth....

But it doesn't make the least realistic any more likely. Occam's razor isn't stupid, because the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions will more than likely be closer to the truth, it's not about assuming anything is the truth.

Originally posted by pryingopen3rdeye
reply to post by SpearMint

 

no I really didn't expect people would,

I just ponder the mentality of subscribing to a skeptics opinion then refusing to put the time in to challenge your own beliefs.

I can understand people who say they don't know and are undecided because they don't have the time to research it for themselves,

I don't understand people who swear up and down that something such as this couldn't exist without researching it themselves,

anytime I find evidence that may contradict my own beliefs or opinions, im excited to look deeply into the matter as I love to reform what I know to fit with the truth,

im trying to better understand the people who hold beliefs or opinions that are not based on research whom refuse to look at evidence even anecdotal even when presented to them.

But just because people have experiences, it does not mean what they think it is, is truth. Many today believe the yogis, shamans and occultists who state that we are all part of a 'cosmic consciousness". But how do those people get you to believe their "truth"? By exhorting the very practice (mind alteration) which gave them their belief. But it does not prove their belief as a truth.

I always use the same example. How do parents convince their children that Santa exists? They leave out presents tagged "from Santa". Those kids experience the presents and conclude that mom and dad hold the truth - Santa IS real. But as an adult, holding the real truth, we can see those presents for what they really are - lying signs and wonders which convince children that an untruth is a truth. And in the same vein, many today conclude that reincarnation is "truth" because people see ghosts or have "memories" (usually retrieved through mind altering practices). But here is the caution: God states that "X" is the truth. Yet the world is believing that "Y" is the truth. Both use the same experiences as proof of X or Y, and therefore we can all conclude that experiences do not and may not prove Truth. Lying signs and wonders can prove an untruth as truth, just as the present tagged "from Santa" convince children of the truth that Santa is real.

Can you not see how erroneous your reasoning is when you are looking to all of these experiences and use them "to reform what you know to fit the truth"? Like the kids on Christmas morning, you are choosing to define your truth based upon what you experience, entirely throwing out the possibility that the presents indicate an altogether different REAL truth.

As long as I come back as me, I'll be wonderfully phantastilicious!

If I come back as some of these other people, OMG!!!

reply to post by SpearMint

Anecdotal Evidence. Hmm!

It wasn't that many years ago that I didn't believe in anything that I couldn't see, touch or smell. But over the last ten to fifteen years my understanding has changed tremendously.

I was trained as an geologist and it wasn't until I was saved that I started to see the world through clearer glasses.

This world of ours is very multi dimensional. What I have grown to learn is that the battle for our minds and souls really is happening in another dimension. But it is an all out war.

Steve

Originally posted by pryingopen3rdeye

Originally posted by SpearMint
I've previously read a lot of these comments, and haven't come across any that undoubtedly points to anything supernatural.

sounds like you didn't read more then a handful of them, dig deeper

Yeah, I second that. After the first few hundred, nearly all of them seem to have something supernatural about them. It's like 100th monkey syndrome, people feel more confident posting their "crazy" stories after reading other people's.

The amount of stories involving kids talking about dead relatives they never met is quite high. A lot of the parents are quite shaken because they know the child couldn't possibly have known what they just said.

reply to post by NuclearPaul


I will admit that when I have had a few drinks and I am around "believers" I will make up ghost stories because it's entertaining to me and easier than trying to introduce logic into whatever they are discussing. Ironically, back when I would try and bring logic into the discussions with people like that they would argue with me but never question the made up ghost stories.

With that being said, when I was little I remember having a huge imagination and my imagined world's and characters almost seemed real. I also remember hearing and understanding "adult" conversations they were obviously talking incognito. I remember my mother talking incognito about my great grandmother dying and putting that, my imagination, and the bs my parents taught me into a story that I then said back to my mother. I got attention, she thought it was a miracle, everyone was happy.

Originally posted by RumblingSpirit
reply to post by SpearMint

 

Anecdotal Evidence. Hmm! It wasn't that many years ago that I didn't believe in anything that I couldn't see, touch or smell. But over the last ten to fifteen years my understanding has changed tremendously.

I was trained as an geologist and it wasn't until I was saved that I started to see the world through clearer glasses. Steve

Steverino, were you in a mine and it collapsed and people dug you out?

Darryl Forests

WhoKnows100

Originally posted by pryingopen3rdeye
reply to post by SpearMint

 

no I really didn't expect people would,

I just ponder the mentality of subscribing to a skeptics opinion then refusing to put the time in to challenge your own beliefs.

I can understand people who say they don't know and are undecided because they don't have the time to research it for themselves,

I don't understand people who swear up and down that something such as this couldn't exist without researching it themselves,

anytime I find evidence that may contradict my own beliefs or opinions, im excited to look deeply into the matter as I love to reform what I know to fit with the truth,

im trying to better understand the people who hold beliefs or opinions that are not based on research whom refuse to look at evidence even anecdotal even when presented to them.

But just because people have experiences, it does not mean what they think it is, is truth. Many today believe the yogis, shamans and occultists who state that we are all part of a 'cosmic consciousness". But how do those people get you to believe their "truth"? By exhorting the very practice (mind alteration) which gave them their belief. But it does not prove their belief as a truth.

I always use the same example. How do parents convince their children that Santa exists? They leave out presents tagged "from Santa". Those kids experience the presents and conclude that mom and dad hold the truth - Santa IS real. But as an adult, holding the real truth, we can see those presents for what they really are - lying signs and wonders which convince children that an untruth is a truth. And in the same vein, many today conclude that reincarnation is "truth" because people see ghosts or have "memories" (usually retrieved through mind altering practices). But here is the caution: God states that "X" is the truth. Yet the world is believing that "Y" is the truth. Both use the same experiences as proof of X or Y, and therefore we can all conclude that experiences do not and may not prove Truth. Lying signs and wonders can prove an untruth as truth, just as the present tagged "from Santa" convince children of the truth that Santa is real.

Can you not see how erroneous your reasoning is when you are looking to all of these experiences and use them "to reform what you know to fit the truth"? Like the kids on Christmas morning, you are choosing to define your truth based upon what you experience, entirely throwing out the possibility that the presents indicate an altogether different REAL truth.

so in your lovely metaphor who is the parent placing the presents and tagging them in santa's name? what authority is providing these experiences and framing them to be something they arent?

presents under the tree in the morning with santa's name on them are IRREFUTABLE evidence, that someone placed presents under that tree and put santas name on them, it is the childs decision to believe their parents are not lying to them when they say it was really santa and not them who placed those presents,

likewise if one had a paranormal experience then the experience is not what is in question but rather the cause of the experience,

your metaphor and the way you use it in this argument is no less to say, because it was not santa who placed those presents under the tree, then those presents do not actually exist, the children are hallucinating.

"There are few things as toxic as a bad metaphor. "

“There seem to be only two kinds of people: Those who think that metaphors are facts, and those who know that they are not facts. Those who know they are not facts are what we call "atheists," and those who think they are facts are "religious." Which group really gets the message?”

Can you not see how erroneous your reasoning is when you are looking to all of these experiences and use them "to reform what you know to fit the truth"?

the erroneous thinking here lies entirely with you, it is you who assumed erroneously that those experiences and reading them has reformed me and my own beliefs in any way.

SpearMint
These can't be considered evidence for previous lives because there's so many possible explanations. How can you be sure the child hasn't heard something said by somebody else or on TV that influenced it, or that the child has been completely misinterpreted? Maybe some of the stories have simply been made up. You shouldn't believe something based on anecdotal evidence.

I've previously read a lot of these comments, and haven't come across any that undoubtedly points to anything supernatural.

Ya i understand that point but when you experience deja vu that is just one of the many Phenomena associated with past life's.