Christianity cracked

reply to post by TheBlackHat


..i think your thread title is a *bit* too presumpteous friend.

the whole point of the dying and ressurection
is to can get us óut of this blind dumb frame

into a total new being

..instead of 'pimping this frame up ' to be able to perform some above-ordinairy acts

Remember the Rain... Remember the Flood in Noah's Day... The word Rain... Respect Abbas Image Now ... Or as in the Day of Noah when only Noah had the respect required... As his Name... No Outcasts Allowed Here... And it rained and rained for 40 days and 40 nights... And for 150 days for a reason... One Family Walked off that Ark into a New Day And Age...

Text "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Uh.. That's what Jesus said.

reply to post by TheBlackHat


@ BlackHat

I believe that this is constantly being repeated with absolutely no comprehension of its true teaching. Yes, those words are in most bibles but not understood because it is almost always taken out of context. I invite you to study what I have to say and then correct me if I am not teaching the truth according to most bibles.

Let us set the scene as to exactly what is meant by “I said ye were gods”.

This started in John Chapter 9 and you must read the entire chapter in order to understand. Jesus had healed a blind man who had been born blind.

John Chapter 10 continues the story from Chapter 9 and here we find Jesus revealing the fact that He was indeed the Son of God and that He did heal this blind man. This was a winter day in Jerusalem and the Feast of Dedication Day. The audience was divided as to whether Jesus actually did heal a blind man and His claim that He was the Son of God. Some believed and most others did not believe so an argument was in order to settle this matter.

The disbelievers then were about to stone Jesus when He reminded them that it was written in their law that God Himself said that mere mortals were gods and sons of God. You must read in context the entire chapters of Psalms 81, 82, and 83 in order to understand what Jesus was referring. In the Psalms it is recorded that God is pleading to Israel to return to Him and He would give them shelter once again. Then God reminded them that even though they were at one time sons of His and gods among Israel that they too would perish like the common man. Here is the key to understanding Jesus. A god among mortals is but a high leader of priestly authority and not a celestial entity. God therefore reminded them that even though they had great esteem as gods (leaders) and were called Son’s of the Most High that they were nothing but mortals who would perish as other mortals.

Jesus reminded the Jewish leaders of this and used it as a reminder of that circumstance in the following manner. You condemn “Me” for saying that I am the Son of God and yet back in the Psalms of Asaph (appointed leader of King David) did not Asaph write of God saying to those leaders that they were sons of the most high and that they were gods among the people? (Psalms chapters 81-83) --

In other words Jesus said nothing blasphemous any more than what God Himself said in the Psalms of Asaph. The entire issue here is not the words “ye are gods” but the issue was whether Jesus was the Son of God. In that era of the Jewish culture a mortal god was another way of saying that being a god he was almost divinity. If Asaph was an appointee of the King himself then what Asaph wrote was the same as what the King desired. Therefore it was law.

So, in reminding the Jewish leaders that it was their own law which called mortals gods and sons of the most High God then what matter would it be wrong for me to have the same claim? It is my opinion as a mortal to say that I am a son of God and not blasphemous as you charge. Through all of this you should be aware that Jesus never claimed to be a god. His claim was that He was the Son of God. That was the charge against Him and that was what He defended by their own law.

Too many people who read the bible are not aware that the original manuscripts had no chapters, verses or commas such as we have in our bibles today. The reading of scrolls in the days of the scribes were read with separation of subject matter. In other words they were read in context of the entire subject or thought. In that culture of King David and his musical director and poet scribe, named Asaph, a god was a title for the elite which distinguishes them from a peasant and not a celestial entity from heaven.

Originally posted by Lone12
reply to post by TheBlackHat

 

..i think your thread title is a *bit* too presumpteous friend.

the whole point of the dying and ressurection
is to can get us óut of this blind dumb frame

into a total new being

..instead of 'pimping this frame up ' to be able to perform some above-ordinairy acts

That's why I titled it "Christianity cracked?" with a question mark..meaning its a theory, not me stating I know anything for sure, just a theory, it's not supposed to get anyone upset or angry. Like I said if the Bible is literal, then once we ate from the tree of "knowledge" we were destined to ask question and have ideas about all things and that included the Bible. If anyone thinks I am bad for questioning such things or for having ideas of my own then blame the same God that allowed our ancestors to eat that apple. We are here to ask questions. To accept everything we are told without questioning it leads to people following false prophets, con artists and manipulators, I am afraid Doubting Thomas was correct, in my book, because those who do not ask for proof are always misled. ALWAYS.

Originally posted by Witness123
This crap gets about 20 stars and this is the site that claims to deny ignorance? You people are delusional, lunatic fringe. How do you get from saying a guy who claimed to be the Messiah could walk on water to say that anyone could walk on water? Don't you think a guy in such a position would have a unique ability to do something of that sort? Why don't you just reject it and say it's nonsense but to just say that He did it because He had faith... no, either He didn't do it at all or He did it because He had miraculous power to violate physical laws, but not because of faith.

Why did it make the reference to Peter's faith? Which one of us could walk on water right now and not sink? But if you were friends with a guy who is proven to do miracles and is best friend's with the God of all the earth and He does it, then says, "Hey why don't you come out here and join me..." what then? I would be out there at the first opportunity. You don't just have faith that things fall up or that the sun freezes Mercury. That is clearly impossible!

Im assuming your a christian? Well I can call myself a Christian too, why not , it's really easy to do, it requires no commitment other than me saying "I accept Jesus as my savior", well that's what most people these days, who claim to be christians have told me. yet for every christian I meet, i honestly cannot tell the difference between how they conduct themselves in the world compared to most non believers or people of other religions. In fact i have met plenty of self proclaimed christian who I would consider quite immoral people, not by my judgement but by Christianity's judgement of them. This is why i have little time for people who tell me about Jesus, because virtually everyone, who lives in the modern world, has to make COMPROMISES in their every day life, in order to get paid etc. Well real historical Christians, never compromised, ever, they got thrown to the lions by the Romans because they would not compromise their beliefs or moral standards...

And contrary to what so called Christians thinks, we do not live in a christian society, even if every president aligns himself with God, because it is against the teachings of Jesus to exploit people for our own gain, yet our society uses sweat shop labor in the far east and developing world to make our material things..Not only that but workers are exploited by bosses who become rich off their labor..this does not sound Christ like to me, yet is this not the fundamental workings of Capitalism??? And do we all partake in it? Well we do if we live in a Capitalist society... .

it is against Jesus, to invade other countries in preemptive wars, yet how many "so called Christians supported these things". We exploit animals, in factory farming, for our convenient food... If you even drive a car, you are partly responsible for "DESTROYING GODS WORK", by polluting the environment. These things i mention are things most Christians today either don't think about or at least they don't think it applies to them ...why? Oh because all it takes to get to heaven is to "accept Jesus as our savior" BS. According to Christianity, we are supposed to follow Jesu's example, at all personal cost to yourself, and that includes getting crucified for your beliefs.

Now show me a Christian that actually is Christian and I'll show you someone who might have a shot at getting to heaven...Oh possibly the Amish have a shot at it...but virtually nobody who lives a secular life in the secular world has a shot at redemption, because you cannot possible be a Christian and drive a car, for example.

And if the end of the world comes and judgement day comes, and if "Christians" are raptured then you can already see, it will be a tiny minority of people who get picked to go to heaven. Also if the typical christian these days really believed in the afterlife, why do I hear so many people talk about getting raptured? Because being raptured up into heaven means going their whilst your still alive..Its once again a materialistic mindset and view of heaven..No different for the material body of Jesus being taken up into heaven. See, in the end, modern day christian's do not believe you go anywhere if you die, if they truly did believe in the afterlife, why then are they are all holding out for the return of Jesus and the end of days, in hopes they will be raptured...What a lack of faith indeed. And what a materialistic view of heaven, when at the heart of Jesus message was to be non materialist, and self sacrificing.. oh the irony.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I am assuming, but logic tells me that the miracles are impossible. Do you really think that Rome, of all people, would really let the truth out there? They were murderers and liars for over a thousand years before they legalized Christianity, they wouldn't have changed that.

You see the world around us today right? We can't get the truth on hardly ANYTHING, do you really think they'd allow us to have the ultimate "truth" for over 2,000 years? I think it's a bit ignorant to think they would. To think they would is to ignore history and the world around us today.

The world around us today is the same as the world around Christ. It has always been so. But not everyone is corrupt like the government leaders. Corrupt men fear honest men. That is why Jesus was crucified. But the truth of Jesus has not been killed. It is indestructible. Corrupt men do not have the power to kill the truth.

The devil tempted Jesus. But Jesus refused.

The truth of Jesus has been hidden by corrupt men behind a curtain of lies and disinformation, just as Jesus predicted.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Dear 3NL1GHT3N3D1,

I've got a question on something you said early in the thread.

I am assuming, but logic tells me that the miracles are impossible.

That interests me. You remember the most famous of all syllogisms: "All men are mortal, Socrates is a man, therefore, Socrates is mortal." If you've got the time, would you tell me how logic shows miracles are impossible? Right now, I don't see it.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by TheBlackHat


Your missing something very critical, and that is divine powers, those of not just God, but of angels and demons and yes satan. There were many "magic" users all throughout the Bible that were not done just by God/Jesus Himself. You say it is technological, but really it is satanic/demonic. satanic power is no match for God whatsover, it is flashy to humans, and can look as though it is the same "magic" and same "show" as what God does, but it is absolutely incorrect.

I admire your bravery to start this thread, but your taking 'supernatural technology' and trying to fit it into the Biblical realms, I would suggest doing the opposite, taking the Biblical realms into the realms of supernatural technology. You will find an almost terrifying connection between demons and ufos and 'advanced unexplainable tech.' "Aliens" fit into my worldview of the Bible, because I dont seem them as inhabitants of another galaxy, but as actual divine beings, demons and angels. One of their greatest tricks is we think there is a line between aliens and the divine, there isnt.

Our modern world thinks itself an intelligent society, we want we can see, and what can benefit us on a physical level, so when satan and his minion of demons come and pose as benevolent "aliens" with all kinds of miracle technology, the world will hop onto it, this is the coming deception [in my opinion, since this thread is about opinions anyways.] I have thought about it from your angle, and it doesn't make sense, now try and think about it from the angle I have described.

Originally posted by TheBlackHat
See, in the end, modern day christian's do not believe you go anywhere if you die, if they truly did believe in the afterlife, why then are they are all holding out for the return of Jesus and the end of days, in hopes they will be raptured...What a lack of faith indeed. And what a materialistic view of heaven, when at the heart of Jesus message was to be non materialist, and self sacrificing.. oh the irony.

I dont know if your projecting your own heart onto all of the other Christians out there, but I do agree with you in the sense that most Christians out there are fake. In fact some of the worse people I have ever met were in the church. Now I think you speak for yourself when you say all of that about the rapture and having no faith etc. My opinion on that is its easier to wish for something happening immediately than waiting till the end of your life to get it, which is why alot of Christians I know want the rapture, I mean if I am being honest, there isnt anything in this world that could happen to me tomorrow that I wouldnt choose over being rapture tomorrow, I would love it. It doesnt mean I have a lack of faith.

I have put much thought about todays modern world and being a Christian in it. Part of it is if your living in America and your a Christian, your living a very difficult life [in most cases] reason being is our lives here are mostly meaningless and mundane, we focus on finding a job, holding down that job, and paying bills and "saving for retirement." everything has become very meaningless in my opinion, but yet at the same time our world has become very physical, very here and now, very "if I cant see it with my own eyes, then it isnt real." I dont go out in America to my safe office job with the fear of knowing I could be caught and martyred today, or that what I am saying to people will free them, that I have a liberating divine truth in my heart, I dont feel the same things the Biblical figures felt, and most in America generally dont. In fact most of my "spiritual work and calling" is not ever anything glorious, but really an intellectuals game of trying to prove something illogical in a world where everything is logical, and truth be told, I am far from an intellectual, I am more on the side of an idiot [if my grammar and spelling hasnt given you that clue yet] Where I work I have a few coworkers who are all very intelligent and capable scientifically minded atheists, and we spend alot of time with intellectual debates over Christianity and belief in the unknown and of faith. Truth be told, most times they win, and most times I go home feeling exhausted and very stupid [much like I do in ATS to be honest] but I still have my faith, I still find all the logic in the world cant answer everything, and I still truly believe one day I will be with God.

My point with all of this, is that my "mission field" is far from anything romantic and glorious as in the Bible, its really very mundane and feels meaningless for me, and feel stupid sometime as though I am trying to prove a fairy tale to people. It doesnt mean I am selling something I know is bad, or that deep down I have no faith, but rather I feel all it takes is me to tell people whats on my heart in terms of Jesus and the rest of the work is upto the Lord, truth be told, God did not make me a logical and intelligent person, but I would rather be more towards the stupid side and have a blind faith in a "fairy tale", then to be super intelligent and look at the world around me and know this is all there is, and that there is hardly anything I can do to fix it. I am not saying I give up on the world, but moreso I feel the world needs Jesus, and if it takes an intellectual debate and everybody laughing at me to get that across, so be it.

So that in my opinion is why you dont see a whole lot of true Christians anymore, is that they may have been at one point, but our society is so very anti Christian as you pointed out [and I 100% agree] and that our world seems to have it all figured out, yet do we really? Speaking on a personal level, I feel so far from being "human" and even Christian at times in this modern world, I mean most people dont live fulfilling lives, even spiritually, but yet for me in a world of confusion, the only thing that makes sense to me is the Lord. Thats the one thing that has never changed for me, is my faith in God and belief in Him. If it is about doubt for you, then ask the Lord to hold your hand while going through doubt, as He wont lead you to despair, I have had to do that many times myself. So theres my 2 cents [again] all you really have is your faith and your life story really.

reply to post by honested3

"The Church isn't a museum for saints, it's a hospital for sinners." G.K. Chesterton

I don't know, but I may be one of those "worse people" you've come across. Since we can never know anyone else's story, we can't tell what they would have been like if they were out of the Church. We can't know, and that's up to God and each individual.

You talk about your mission field, and make it sound like evangelism. Consider the Fourth Chapter of Ephesians:

11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Perhaps, just maybe, you're in the wrong work? Could you be a teacher? Perhaps an encourager of your fellow believers? You know there are many gifts, have you found yours?

reply to post by charles1952


Very true words, and yes if the church is the hospital, the "worse people" I am referring to are no the patients, rather the doctors and nurses, the staff if you follow me. And yes your correct in I may be in the wrong mission field, but also one could say I am in the right mission field, but only it is a universal "monday" for the time being. Thus far my time debating the bright minds on ATS as well as in real life has given me an answer to many diverse questions in todays modern world, so maybe my mission field has yet to start, maybe I am in "school" still. Though to be honest I feel as if everyday is the mission field. Also I doubt you would have been one of the "worse" people I have met, because if you acknowledge that, it shows you self assess which few do, and I read your posts in other threads, your very much an inspiration and a weapon for the Lord.

reply to post by honested3


I see this point of view, but i already pretty much already agreed with it...that God the father made us in his image, therefore god the father must be human. I already explained if Jesu's mother was human then his father has to be of the same species, even if that father cam from some place other than earth, as only two of the same species can create offspring..

Also from Ezekiel
"As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle." Sounds like genetic engineering to me...add this to the story of God taking a rib from Adam to make eve...The best cells for cloning are said to be found in bone marrow.

Also speculation that a machine was given to the Jews, whilst they wandered in the desert for 40 years, a machine which generated a type of basic nutrient which kept them alive. known as "manna from heaven". In the book called the Manna machine the authors claim ....
"The device was said to create manna, which is thought today to actually be a type of algae. It explains how the Israelites survived their 40 year wandering in the Sinai Desert. It is said by Sassoon and Dale that a nuclear reactor used to power the manna machine was stored in the Ark of the Covenant. The Ark was supposed to have powered the machine to run continuously, producing manna for six days. On the 7th day it would be taken apart for cleaning so it could run the following week. This is where Sabbath is thought to come from. The knowledge was preserved within the Jewish Kabbalah that the authors claim to have correctly decoded. "

And what about the star that led the three wise men to Jesus birth. A moving star? Sounds like a craft to me, but some people think it's more logical that a star literally moved??? Of course it could have been a comet, but comets don't come to rest in the sky over stables.



This is what I said about people who say they are Christians because all it takes is "accepting Jesus as your savior" yet as you state some of the worst people you have met have been in the church, but if they really believe in Christ etc, and so do you, then that means you and them will all go to heaven...so how will heaven be a perfect place if it is shared between people you think are awful human beings????

You state you would like to be raptured ASAP, in order to get to heaven, well not to sound funny, but you may aswell say you wish to die ASAP, as death is supposed to result in Christians getting to heaven. See not many people want to die, sure some people do, but i doubt they want to die in the belief they will get to heaven. The only people who want to die to get to heaven are people who belong to cults like Heavens gate..at least they showed that they had a total belief that they would go on after death, most people though thought they were all insane...OBVIOUSLY...So when I say Christians want rapture, it's because they do not have the belief shared by people like heavens Gate, Christians today simply do not have faith in life after death, otherwise they would embrace the idea of death or more specifically not fear it one bit. Look at how Christians bury the dead, they wear black, they weep, they morn, some never get over the death of a loved one. Does this sound like people who believe there is a God and a heaven? No, no it doesn't. If people really believed they would be happy when their loved ones died, knowing they had gone to a much better life.

I agree, and I am glad your faith in God sustains you. Personally, I alternate between believing and being an atheist. You would probably call me an agnostic. Too many bad things happen in the world for me to accept a loving God would allow it to happen, but on other days i see the good in the world. And at the end of the day, the only rational explanation i can come up with is that this earth is not heaven and nobody ever said it was.
Some Christians used to believe we were put on earth to suffer, even Buddha believed that, but modern people dont believe in suffering, we just believe in comfort haha and if we suffer we say there is no God, the opposite belief of old Christains, who thought that suffering proved there was a God haha..These days we are continually trying to make a heaven on earth, that's how much faith we have in going to one after we die. If you look back at much of Christianity, Christians used to live simple and austere lives, because they believed comfort was sinful..still today we have small groups of Christians who still live like this, including the Amish..but Buddhist monks live simple lives too, and they have a different philosophy, but if you see the bigger picture they have the same belief.

Just a couple more points. Again this is just my take on Christianity.
When Jesus stated “No one comes to the Father if not through me.”
You can take this several ways, on the face of it it sounds very narcissistic to me. Quite a few things Jesus is reported to have said sound narcissistic, including claiming he was the son of God, weather he was or not... it also sounds like what a cult leader would come out with.

This is partly why, even though i was raised as a Christian i found Jesus did not appeal to me as an icon of equality for mankind. The whole idea of a superman figure, which is what Jesus is, because he had superpowers...well that whole idea is not one of unification and bringing people together but rather one of having a king and icon figure, a figure that rather than being equal to mankind is far superior to it.

The idea of worshiping a superman, is what most Christians believe in and in itself this is counter to the very message of Christianity in my opinion. because if we are to treat a stranger as if they were Jesus etc, then that means everyone should be treated and viewed with the same respect. this is where the message of christainity is warped, if Jesus encouraged us to treat all people like we wish to be treated, even the criminals who shared the cross with him, then you can only conclude that there is not supposed to be any one man higher than the other in christain life, yet Jesus is worshiped as the king or kings. I don't believe this is what Jesus even set out to do.
I dont believe Jesus wanted christainty to turn in to a personality cult.

What I believe the statement “No one comes to the Father if not through me.” must mean, is that Jesus set the example, an example we must follow in order to reach "the father aka heaven aka nirvana..which is a blissful state of mind here in our mortal brains"

The symbolism of Jesus returning to life after death, is also talked of in Buddhism, Buddha talked of ending the cycle of birth and death. Not literally but mentally. Also Buddha had to sit and meditate for some time before seeing what the cause of our suffering on earth is.."our mental suffering" things such as depression, anxiety, lust, envy, anger, hatred..etc,etc,etc... in Buddhism these negative emotions are not called sins, but they are seen as conditions of the mind, that arise from our attachment to the material world, and material things...in Christainity it is described differently but if you are wise enough you can see they are both talking about mental suffering here on earth. This is why we have the 10 commandments and Jesus teachings, to get away from the materialistic mind set, because it caused mental suffering, which in turn can cause physical suffering because envy and lust ect can indeed lead to real actual suffering, not just mental suffering. Are wars not caused over emotional issues quite often. Even the current North Korean stand off is seen as one mans over inflated ego. So mental and emotional conditions hurt mankind mentally but also literally.

The problem with how we see the 10 commandments, is that once mankind is told not to do something we have an overwhelming urge to do it. So do not think about a black cat..and what do you instantly think of..a black cat. its reverse psychology, so in many respects the 10 commandments may well have led mankind to commit more crimes and sin that we might have done if we never were specifically told not to do these things. this is why i prefer the Buddhist explanation of sin, sin isn't something that's fun and restricted to us...as Christianity expresses it...but rather negative emotional conditions literally hurt our minds and eventually our bodies. living sinfully, is simply a counter productive way to live, it causes disharmony, internally and in society, and it isolates people. I dont live in a particually sinful way because its undesirable to me, i see it will cause me no good, no fun even, all the stress, anxiety and by seeing negative emotions when they arise like envy, I can blow it out before i encourage it into a full blown fire inside my mind. This is really what hell is, a troubled mind, its why people commit suicide to escape the hell they are in. heaven is the opposite. This is what i really think Jesus was talking about, same as Buddha. And remember there are Buddhists who worship Buddha...but that was not his message either.

Thats just my take on it.




Regardless if Jesus was superhuman or not...His message was not about being good in order to get to a heaven after we die..This is a materialistic mindset. The incentive to be good, is to live a good and fulfilling and contented life, with no stress and trouble. When you tell people they "must" live a good life without sin, in order to be "rewarded" after they die...is actually reverse psychology. its forcing people to be good, when the truth is people, in general, are genetically pre disposed to be good, because it is in their best interests to be good, other wise they starve and end up alone. When you force people to be good, they often rebel against it, and choose to do bad things, which more often than not are not fun to do...how many people smoke cigarettes, only after having to smoke them repeatedly before getting any enjoyment or addiction to them. We all know people who smoke the fist few times almost makes them puke, yet they stick with it, and pay lots of money for the privilege, because the are told its a bad thing to do, that it will cause cancer and addiction...incredible isnt it, but well known people choose to do bad things, not because they are fun to do, but because they are told not to do them.

Yeah i see where your coming from BlackHat. I think my big thing about it all is if it is machinery, it is divine machinery, as in would one believe there to be 'technology' or machines in heavenly realms? I believe so, but then again if you have a machine does that mean you cant do everything in heaven? So who really knows, interesting topic of conversation really. In terms of the worse people I have met also being in heaven, its not that they will be that same way in heaven, its that they will no longer have sinful nature in heaven, so they will be 'good' people. But i absolutely agree with you about how Christians seem to have given up on Jesus true teachings, it really seems true a lot of times.

I was actually raised to be more on the amish side, very conservative Christian upbringing, but have found recently found its ok to have fun in life, to enjoy life, and I think that the Lord meant for life to be enjoyed so long as one is living a Godly life. I think your discovering something very true to our soceity and culture and what it means to be Christian today, and truthfully it does feel like you have to almost be athest in one hand for you to fit in, I know exactly where your at, like I feel moreso than anybody else in ATS I know exactly what you feel. I know this sounds cliche and whatnot, but pray about it, and get mad at God, pray to Him even in anger, because your heart will come out, and you will see that everything that comes out He already saw, thats what I do, I found just be honest with yourself and God at the same time. I think the very fact your putting much thought into all of this shows God has a purpose for you and wants to use that unique position and state of mind.

reply to post by honested3


I don't just think it's me and you who struggle with Christianity, i think every "honest" christian struggles with it. some people either cant articulate the reasons they are struggling to live as Christians but other Christians are just full of denial...I know many of them who go to Church etc but are more satanic in their way of thinking than I am. For instance..i know one woman, who continually runs to church, and goes out of her way to do people little favors, but she only does these things when it suits her to do them...I mean if someone really needed her to give them help with collecting groceries or something minor like that, she would make an excuse and not do it...but she turns up when she isn't asked and actually makes a nuisance of herself, imposing herself on people, when she is neither wanted or needed. She does this in the guise of being a "good christian", but she only "helps" when she isnt needed...in other words she helps when it's convenient for her and she is bored...she also makes sure she boasts about all the charitable things she does...the only reason she does anything supposedly good..is because she thinks its adding to her score card for points to get into heaven...I mean seriously. This is my main issue with people who claim to do good things in order to get to heaven, they are not doing things to help anyone only themselves...and with that way of doing things, your only getting in the way when your not needed...but as long as its beneficial to the so called Christian and their score card, then it doesn't matter that their good deeds are only done for totally selfish reasons...This is my big issue with doing good to get to heaven...it doesn't lead to a good world here....You do good because its both practical and makes you feel better about being alive...this is the only way to be truly good.

So people, should be encouraged to see being good, as the most logical way to live. I mean here is another example. The gap between the rich and the poor. Its satanic, to have so few with so much and so many with so little..yet it is capitalism, so we are certainly in a satanic culture and on top of that it's money that is worshiped because its money that can buy you material things, including the most attractive mates, in many cases. But all of this is the material world, and if you again look at Jesus, he rejected the material world, including having a woman or partner, and rather than cling to even his own life, he rejected that too, by not taking the easy way out when he had a chance, and instead allowed himself to be put to death on the cross. I don't believe this was done in order to get to heaven, at least not the heaven most people think of.

Buddha also said in order to reach nirvana we have to reject the material world, the world of things and our attachment to those things, and this includes our own body, just like Christ showed. but remember Buddhas nirvana was in his own mind, not in life after death. It's the same message as Jesus.

if you see many people who live in the developing world, we often see them on the news suffering with war and starvation...but we also see in other places where their is no war or starvation, and people still have very little, we see them smiling and happy and in a community. It's the grabbing for material possessions and power, to have more than our neighbor that is causing misery, not just for the people who are left behind, but for the people who cannot control their desire to have more and more of everything. Just look at the obesity epidemic in the states, its now spreading to the rest of the western world...literally our mental lust for things is literally killing our bodies as well as our minds..and for proof that's its also killing our minds, look at the incredible addiction to prescription drugs, anti depressants and pain killers..then look at all the illegal narcotics. Like Buddha said these things are brought on by the mind, and the negative conditions that arise from our attachments to the material world. Exactly the same message as Christ and sin, because sin literally harms us here whilst we are alive.

In dying on the cross, there was no incentive to go on to a literal heaven, the incentive was to live and die by Christs own rules and own moral integrity. that is the message. If one lives and dies by their own morality with no compromises, then it matters not if you die at 20 years old or 100 years old, because if you bend to the satanic society we live in, then you never lived your life in the first place and you will be full of regrets and anxieties with the compromises you make in order just to survive on this planet.

And yes I believe its literally the society and the material world that is satanic or Satan, not some horned guy under the ground, same as what Buddha seems to suggest and Christ indicated when he says Satan tempted him in the desert, Buddha also says he was tempted by a satanic figure offering him the material world..In short our temptations and attractions to materialism, is what brings us down, but if we reject everything in life, then we end up like Jesus and get persecuted or even killed..but according to Christianity you have to accept the ultimate sacrifice in order to know you did it your way and no someone elses..This is what is so very hard for people to understand or accept about Christs actual message, so it gets warped and watered down. be good go to heaven, and worship a statue with long hair because he was superman. the actual message was to live without compromise.

The message from Christ, in my view, was to live your life, honestly with yourself..How many people can really say they do this? with all the pressures to fit in. When you die you may have a unthinking and ego free soul, and it might go on some place else, but not this thinking mind full of opinions and troubles and stresses. people fear losing their body and even worse they fear losing their mind, because they "think" they will be condemned to eternal darkness, like being buried alive. But they forget without a mind to think, their cannot be an eternal darkness, but if the soul goes on, as religions all say, then it is beyond our comprehension, beyond the ideas of the mind. But what Christ and Buddha both mean was to live honestly whilst your alive because that is the only true life to live, anything less if a lie or a living death, just like a zombie, walking around programmed by society and afraid to live by your own convictions. i am sure this is what the cycle of birth and death and eternal life means.

Ol' Russian is difficult to read and understand. Closer to Greek closer to Gentiles, whom Jesus showed Mercy. The underlying message is to believe and have faith. The elephant in the room is your tv and modern translations. Adding yet another layer of paint to the wall. Even if i wanted to see the first ever Graffiti in my Urine smelling staircases here in the projects, how many layers of paint would i have to peel away? Just listen to ManLESS messages. Stay away from your Individualized approach to life because that is the easiest way to "get by". Have interest in no matters concerning man.

Originally posted by iamhobo
What about the individuals who convince themselves they can fly so they jump off a building---just to end up dying.

I think there is something else missing besides the 100% faith factor. Very interesting nonetheless.

Excellent point, and I believe this too.. There IS more to doing miraculous things than just the faith factor alone, For many of them that Christ did, he prayed to God first about it, because all powers come from God in the first place, and I feel that Christ abviously loves his Father, and also respects and even cherishes all the right ways of doing things, like following protocols of virtue before just haphazardly doing some miracle, but instead giving them serious thought and consideration to the Father's will first..

If I thought I had all the faith it took to do a miracle but my needs and intentions were not perfectly inline with God's will for a situation, then I would be trying to test God instead of having a virtuous need for a miracle.. I'm thinking it must take a whole lot more than just faith alone.. At least having correct intentions and the real need to help others in a situation, and not just something done selfishly.... Just my thoughts on it...

The OP brings up a lot of things and it is good thing to be searching for answers, but I see a lot of folks are always trying to find flaws with what Christ did, and many of the people that were in positions of power back in those days when Christ walked the earth were doing that exact same thing...

If someone wishes to find flaws in Christ, a good question to ask is Why are they doing that? Are they hoping to invalidate his mission on earth? There are a lot of reasons why people would do this, one of which is to create the situation where they think they won't need to be accountable for their life here on earth..

If a person is honest with what they do, and honest with their own life, they will look for better answers than those..

Originally posted by AdevDragon
Ol' Russian is difficult to read and understand. Closer to Greek closer to Gentiles, whom Jesus showed Mercy. The underlying message is to believe and have faith. The elephant in the room is your tv and modern translations. Adding yet another layer of paint to the wall. Even if i wanted to see the first ever Graffiti in my Urine smelling staircases here in the projects, how many layers of paint would i have to peel away? Just listen to ManLESS messages. Stay away from your Individualized approach to life because that is the easiest way to "get by". Have interest in no matters concerning man.

Yes i agree. That's why I find the principal of zen Buddhism so appealing. The non thinking mind, empty of all those opinions, just the mind that accepts each moment and lets each moment pass without clinging to it. The cycle of birth and death, the birth of a though and the death of a thought, the birth of a desire and the death of a desire, all those things are in the every day thinking mind, full of pollution, caused by the lives we lead. The empty mind, is pure however, no complications, simple, empty, heaven in the head.