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posted on May, 4 2013 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by TheBlackHat
 


I think that's what happens when you take the bible literally. It's been translated to death over the years and has various different meanings for different things. It's down to interpretation.




posted on May, 4 2013 @ 10:48 AM
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Something to consider here. There is a problem that wasn't there 2000 years ago. What the problem is that there is a long term Leviticus 26 curse running. And what happened was this. The first century Jews triggered the curse of Malachi.

Malachi 4
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Matthew 17
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

And working through the details here is a prophesy of the timeframe of the curse and the other verse that explains it.

Hosea 6
1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

2nd Peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Israel was to be cursed for 2000 years and then restored for a 1000 years. The day of Jezreel prophesy in Hosea.

So for this thread I would point out that while this curse is running those types of special abilities simply may not work until the curse is over.



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by TheBlackHat
 


Finally somebody gets it, bravo and well stated



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 12:04 PM
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TextFirstly, Jesus said we are all Gods children, this would indicate that if Jesus was Gods son and we are also Gods children, then Jesus was an ordinary man and not "special", or "chosen". I am basing this assumption on Jesus own words and interpreting them directly.
reply to post by TheBlackHat
 


@ BlackHat

BlackHat, you covered a lot in your thread and much of what you question is valid to most folks. One thing you should keep in mind is that religion is basically theology and not terrestrial understanding. Simply because you believe something is true does not make it a truth. It is only a truth when it was established a truth and that is what makes this theology.

One example is that you must state a statement on the truth in order to receive the truth as an answer. The 1611 KJV bible does not state that all people are God's children nor does it state that Jesus taught that same misconception. It does however state that whosoever believes in Jesus as the begotten Son of God will be allowed into His kingdom with everlasting life. (John 3:16) -- But even at this you must remember that this is also theology.

As Peter was with Jesus and tried to walk on water shows that Peter did not truly believe that he could walk on water. Peter could not establish the truth that He himself believed that he could do this. Perhaps he believed that the Lord was holding him above the water. I don't really know and no one really knows except Jesus and Peter. All we are taught, in this matter, is that Peter failed as a mortal to do what the Christ could do.

The man Jesus was conceived by God in the flesh and this is what makes him so unique. This is best described as Jesus being begotten (not created) from God. He was brought forth from the Creator Himself and the bible describes this as Jesus being the "only begotten Son of God." There are many son's of God but only one begotten Son of god.

There is no mortal that can demand what is truly a gift. Talking and interpretation of tongues were only part of the nine gifts of God on the day of Pentecost. These should always be regarded as stated in scripture. They are gifts from God and can not be regarded as prerequisites. The nine gifts of of God were to be tools to establish and protect the first Christian church and not be taken as a a show.

The purpose of Jesus was to bring salvation and establish His kingdom of Heaven. That kingdom was established after His death. Yes, His purpose was to bring salvation to mankind but only through the establishment of His kingdom. Mankind had forgiveness before Jesus but mankind did not have the resurrection into His kingdom till after His death. Prior to His death the spirit of man was contained in Sheol. In order to enter the heavenly kingdom you have to be forgiven of your past sins so in that respect Jesus did come to bring you salvation.

Jesus taught that we die once and then are judged immediately. We can die in the flesh no more than once. If Lazarus died and was entombed and then resurrected he would then have to face another death and that is not scriptural. Jesus had life within Himself, according to scripture, and having life within Himself restored Lazarus to his formal self. The mystery remains as to where Lazarus was. He was not in heaven because at this time the kingdom of God had not been established and he was not in Sheol because once in Sheol would mean that he was judged and sentenced. You can face judgment only once and it is forever.

The soul Jesus existed as a terrestrial entity but the Spirit Jesus existed in heaven as the Word and was restored in heaven as the Word. The Word now exists as the Word and not as Jesus. When the Word returns to set up His one thousand years government, He returns as the "Word of God." We use the word Jesus for our understanding but in all reality the soul Jesus no longer exists as a terrestrial entity nor will it ever be again a terrestrial soul. This is what makes Jesus so special. He was God and is now God.

Through all of this try to understand that what I have just written is simply theology. I actually can prove no more than you or any other theologian can prove but what I have written here is taught in the 1611 KJV bible.



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by skepticconwatcher



Firstly, Jesus said we are all Gods children, this would indicate that if Jesus was Gods son and we are also Gods children, then Jesus was an ordinary man and not "special", or "chosen". I am basing this assumption on Jesus own words and interpreting them directly.
reply to post by TheBlackHat
 


Firstly....before I continue.... you need to site that direct quote seeing as it is the base of your argument.




When the Jews accused Jesus of calling himself the son of God...

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’

Notice he he didn't say it is written in law you are Gods...but "I said, you are Gods"

Well if the Jews were considered "Gods" by Jesus, well Jews are human beings and so are gentiles, so you ought to figure out that Jesus was really saying he is no different to anyone else...especially when he was getting stoned and put on the spot for people accusing him of blasphemy.

We already know the Jews are supposedly Gods chosen people anyway...and Jesus was a Jew...but his remark goes further than that "I said, you are Gods"

I don't need to re read the bible, rather I suggest you study zen, because by all accounts Jesus was a zen master..and was more than likely not a superhuman half god half human...but for those who hold fast to the literal Bible, and for all i know the literal Bible may well be right, then all i was stating from the go get was that Jesus literally rose from the dead, so if he could do it, then other mortals should have the same ability, and perhaps that ability does really exist but only when people believe in it..."I said you are Gods" this statement equalizes every person with Jesus, meaning Jesus was admitting to just being human.

Again as some other poster mentioned, over and over in the Bible Jesus refers to having faith and belief and the literal power of belief can literally move mountains in to the sea. How many Christians out there literally believe they can move a mountain into the sea????? .

This is what actual faith in God is supposed to be, but how many Christians are really prepared to believe in the incredible? Virtually none, therefore how many real Christians are there? very, very few by my estimations.

No, I've met lots of Christians, and i can vouch for this, they "hope" there is a God and a heaven..but no, they don't truly believe it, because to believe in an invisible God takes incredible and abnormal belief, that belief cannot come about under normal everyday circumstances, that's why all the saints through history went into deep, deep prayer to be "close to God". And this goes back to my original theory, that God can be found in the deep trance state, or in zen meditation, and I only suggested that perhaps Jesus used such techniques to bend physical reality literally. Remember Buddhist monks have a certain fascination and mystery about them due to certain unusual and bizarre things they can achieve through meditation.

That's why i posted the two clips about the Buddha boy and the guru who lives "allegedly " without food or water. I am not stating these things are facts, but they are both cases linked to meditation and yoga practices, and just maybe Jesus who spent 40 days and nights in the wilderness, used similar techniques and perhaps this enabled him to do amazing things.

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posted on May, 4 2013 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by TheBlackHat
 


He was directly quoting scripture, not saying that he was the one who said it.


Psalm 82
6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'


I agree with you, I'm just clarifying what he said.



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by 1337s0lja
 


Originally posted by 1337s0lja
Politics and government have corrupted the church from the inside...

I don't believe politics are the real problem.

The church has been infiltrated by Satan and his Illuminati.

This is WHY it bares no resemblance at all to the early Church.


"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati..."

The Real Conspiracy the Jesuit infiltration of Christianity


I am convinced that many Fundamental Baptist churches are NOW pastored by Jesuits and Opus Dei agents. Many deacons and Sunday School teachers are now inside the Baptist movement teaching doctrines of Rome. You need to read the following articles so that you can watch for the signs that you too have an hireling planted in your church by the Vatican.

LINK

"90% of the Southern Baptist hierarchy are Freemasons. There is also a high percentage of Christian leadership from the Lutheran and United Methodist churches are Masons. This would explain why Ecumenism has spread so easily. ...the goal is to infiltrate it with their compromising philosophies and attempt to destroy the Church from within."

Infiltration of Freemasonry

What if I were to tell you, that there is a vast Satanic conspiracy to deceive the masses of every society on earth? What if I were to tell you that the top leaders of the world’s religions were in league with the Devil? Would you think I’m crazy? I would! Yet, the truth is stranger than fiction! You have been lied to my friend. Few people in the world today are aware of just how much Satan has infiltrated organized religion. Link

"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati to enslave and brainwash society. In essence, religion was the first form of mind control. The indoctrination of the masses by a "Trojan Horse" false religion has allowed the Illuminati to take control and work in secret for many, many years." Link

The Vatican has infiltrated, or neutered and spayed, virtually every denomination and organization in Christendom. Various means have been used, but Opus Dei has played a major role in this.

Virtually 100% of the world's seminaries are in the pocket of the Roman Whore in that they use her Bible via the Alexandrian Gnostic Greek texts.

I am fully persuaded that Opus Dei and the Jesuits have already planted many of their agents in Baptist and Fundamental churches and schools.

I am convinced that many Fundamental Baptist churches are NOW pastored by Jesuits and Opus Dei agents. Many deacons and Sunday School teachers are now inside the Baptist movement teaching doctrines of Rome. You need to read the following articles so that you can watch for the signs that you too have an hireling planted in your church by the Vatican.

OPUS DEI-- War on Protestantism

"Today the religions of the world remain a major tool of the Illuminati agenda. They maintain the climate of unquestioning, unthinking, ignorance, and their pseudo-morality provides a veil of hypocrisy, behind which the most sickening abuse of children can be hidden."

"Some of the most famous church "leaders" and evangelists on the planet are Illuminati operatives who use religion to manipulate and brain-wash their followers while engaging in Satanic rituals that beggar belief."

"But the mass of unthinking followers in any religion are merely the fodder and the screen behind which the real business goes on." Link



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 01:31 PM
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You come in many forms......you attack with many a weapon but your message is always the same. You are very wrong about JC. He was special. Born of a virgin. He had but one mission and He completed it. He died for the sins of man.

We ARE all Gods children and God loves us all. Even the worst of the worst can reach the end zone or whatever u want to call it but He does have a few requests. 1st) You must be truly sorry for sins committed and 2nd)...Just be cool to people. Help your neighbors out. Help in the community and give a little scratch if u can to help those in need. It is really kinda simple when you think about it.



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by CplAwesome
 


So if Jesus was God's son (child) and we are also God's children, wouldn't that mean Jesus was no different from everyone else?

I noticed you didn't mention anything about Jesus requesting us to believe he rose from the dead. You'd be correct in that.



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 05:53 PM
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I think, that people should wonder less about Jesus as person and put more effort to understand his motives and behaviour. What led him, and what really was he after. If one stops for, some time, to just question and doubt by reason, stops arguing about legitimacy of all the churches and various spiritual ways, then he may get to see the glimpse of the Truth.

Generally, what is missing, is respect, so i would be very carefull to loudly say whoose children I really am.
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posted on May, 4 2013 @ 06:39 PM
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Hey i am not attacking anything, what i said was you can interpret the Bible literally or you can interpret it as metaphor. I didn't say the Bible was wrong nor did i say it was right.

I am not ignorant enough to tell people something written by many different authors over many centuries about a man who lived 2000 years ago is a true and accurate account of historical events. if Someone went to court as a witness and testified that they heard from another person who saw a crime, the Judge would not accept the witness as a "witness", because second and third hand testimony is highly unreliable. yet in the same court of law people are asked to swear on the bible..quite ironic.

However even though my logical brain tells me the Bible is probably full of inaccurate statements, I am willing to accept the possibility that it may all well be absolutely true..even though that is highly unlikely.. I'm still willing to accept the possibility..after all i play the lottery knowing it is highly unlikely ill win but i know there is a minute possibility that i might.


My take on the Bible was two fold, if your to take the new testament as metaphor as many Christian's do, then in my opinion, Jesus was a human being, telling us to live the best lives we can and treat our brothers and sisters the same as we wish to be treated, because we are all interconnected and all part of the one universal consciousness "GOD", because God is in everything, everywhere. It was a left wing socialist message, and one i happen to agree with.


But if you take the Bible literally, as some Christians do, usually we call these people, Christian fundamentalists, and the other irony is they are usually right wingers. These Christians are more concerned with stories of the Bible, not their meaning, just the stories. These people usually miss the over all message and can be quite unchristian if you share your opinion of what the Bible might actually mean.

My view was to accommodate both sides of the Christian viewpoint. If the Bible is metaphoric it would seem that Jesus was basically a zen master as his overall message is almost exactly the same as Buddha's. Of course to suggest this, fundamental Christians will be infuriated, thinking that Buddha is Satan?

If I then go along with the belief of fundamental Christian's, who believe God made the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th..The same God took a rib from Adam to make eve, and the same God is said in the Bible to have made us in his image. Well what do you think making something in your image means? It means God looks like us. Secondly if God said "now they have become like us" because Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, it has to mean that not only do we look like God, but we think like God also. If we look and think like God, then God looks and thinks like us, this can only mean God the Father is a human, of course not a simple human, someone far more advanced than us, but still genetically it sounds like a human being to me..in fact when God is said to have used the word "us", it sounds like more than one person who made us, but multiple people..Not only that but if God is the father of Jesus, literally his father, and Mary was his mother, then only two humans can make a baby, even if one of them has not originated on this planet.

This is me interpreting the Bible as it stands, to say God the Father must be a human does not take away the belief that he is also the one who made us, therefore it does not diminish his position as our God in my opinion, rather it makes the Bible story a lot more easy to believe. And for me it makes the idea of God being our father more comforting, because if god the father is human, then I can relate to him and him to me, and if he did make us all in the beginning then hopefully he still cares about his genetic offspring..hopefully.

Just look at the statement "now they have become like us". We know what morality is, and often it is a burden, if you look at dumb animals they are 100% free of sin because they have no understanding of morality, so they are free, completely free. we do not blame a shark for attacking another living thing, even if it eats a person, because we know the shark behaves like a shark, and has no morality or knowledge of good and evil. Yet out of all the animals, only man, who knows the difference between right and wrong, its only man who repeatedly commits terrible crimes against humanity. the worst shark, lion or snake cant compete with mankind. Perhaps this is why God wanted us to remain like dumb animals in the garden of Eden, we would have been free and our wrong doing would have been no worse than any other dumb animal, our sinful ways would never have reached the epic proportions that history has shown..but without knowledge there would be no civilization or technological advancement either. So when God said "they have become like us" bear in mind, the real meaning of that sentence.







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posted on May, 4 2013 @ 06:58 PM
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Further more...What are human beings trying to do throughout history. We have been trying to master our environment, for our own comfort and well being. We continually innovate technologies and invent new ways to take our civilization forward. This is human nature, to be curious, to ask question and to make advances. this is what happened when we ate from the tree of knowledge, the down side was that we found out how much fun it could be to be evil, by being able to build civilizations and destroy civilizations for our own selfish gains. I have no doubt that God the father already knew the consequences of knowledge, which can only mean God the father knew what knowledge leads to...How would he know this? the only answer is because he had already lived it and seen it on his own planet and therefore wanted to protect his new world from it.

And then consider what our species is currently attempting to do. We are trying to make artificial intelligence. intelligent computers that "think like us" and more than that robots that "look like us", made in our own image. We are also playing around with stem cells and cloning, and with every technological advance and experiment, some people say "we are playing God". But of course we are playing God, because God made us in his image, to be like him with knowledge, so when i question the Bible, i am supposed to question it rather than be a mindless sheep.

And what if we get there, and create an intelligent computer? Already people fear it. they fear it gaining human "knowledge" because it might turn on us and be far more intelligent and out smart us. for this very reason i absolutely believe God the father did indeed come down and make us, because we are repeating the cycle.

So if we have an urge to create life in our image, but better than us, that's what human being s want. we want to create life that is like us, but far more perfect than us. We want artificial intelligence to be our friends, and to help us, to be more intelligent than we are, to solve all our problems and yet not be brought low by our human nature that craves self interest and corruption. If that's what we are aiming to create, then i have no doubt that's what God the father aimed to create when he made us. Pity it didn't work out...But he must have had similar reasons in creating life in his own image, as the reasons we are attempting to do the same thing, as in make perfect beings. And if you look at the old testament, it is said that God's original people lived for centuries, Methuselah is said to have lived for over 900 years. Are we not attempting to extend the human lifespan to such limits ourselves? Yes we are and more over we are increasingly gaining the knowledge to make it possible, which only strengthens my belief that is has been done before.

Some people even speculate if we do create an intelligent computer, that can think like us, that it will quickly jump far ahead of us in knowledge and become so superior that we can never compete with it, leading to us creating a new God. This is known as the singularity. Will it happen? I have no idea but it is a very interesting idea.
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posted on May, 4 2013 @ 07:21 PM
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I would first like to address your flawed logic regarding Jesus being an ordinary person. You draw this conclusion based on the fact that all are God's children. The logic is actually flawed in more ways than one, but mainly you overlooked the fact that a solution to this "dilemma" is that all people could be Godlike. In fact, this is the very thing Jesus was attempting to get across to the masses. In fact, all humans on this earth are tasked with growing spiritually, and this is why such things as grace and serendipity exist. Most people do not understand what those words truly mean.

Think about this: The second law of thermodynamics and entropy suggest that all things "wind down" over time. Things move from states of order to disorder over time. Now think about the theory of evolution, which states the exact opposite. This does not mean evolution is false, it just means there are highly spiritual implications. I could recommend some great books on this very subject, but I doubt most people would take the time to read them. If anyone is interested however, message me.

Next, Peter never walked on water. When Jesus walked on water, he approached the boat in which Peter and some of the other apostles were in, in the middle of the sea. I do not know where you get your information, but it is wrong. In fact, the weather was bad and the waves were quite choppy. I read where someone on ATS the other day actually claimed Jesus could have placed some type of substance on the water, thus giving Him the ability to walk on it. Considering that the sea was quite tumultuous, this is even more preposterous than it normally would be.

But you are correct that it is faith that gave Jesus this ability. This type of faith is hardly ever achieved by most people, but the possibility is there. In fact, acts of spontaneous healing and the like are due to this very faith. And these types of things have occurred. But those who are capable of doing such things are not those same people you see on television, and they are not the people who are going to want to prove these things to anyone else. Doing so would mean they are concerning themselves with the opposite of what they should be concerning themselves with. This has to do with why God does not reveal himself openly. People are supposed to come to Him. If these things were proven, then people will be believing for the wrong reasons. Jesus talked about those who needed "signs" to believe, and said they would not get one.

But He did give signs at other times. There is a reason for this. It is up to the individual to seek and find these answers for themselves. I used to not believe, but now I do, and there are quite miraculous reasons for this belief. But that is irrelevant considering everyone must find and choose their own path. And Jesus DID say He was chosen. This was the point of everything, and it was made known. Much of what He did and said was to imply that He was the Messiah. The only reason that He occasionally told people not to tell anyone about His miracles was because He did not want to draw all that much attention to himself. Why is this you ask?

NOT because he was not the Messiah, but because the majority of the people He was preaching to had the wrong idea of the Messiah. They were expecting a political Messiah, not someone who came to serve and suffer for the sins of the world. That misunderstanding is also why some Jews to this day do not accept Christ as the Messiah. Jesus fulfilled every single requirement set forth in the Old Testament by the Jewish prophets. Jesus tried to tell people that the Jewish law was not important, but rather that faith and good works were important. This Jewish law was only in place because the Messiah had yet to come. Once He came, the law was unnecessary. Paul talks about this quite a bit, as do other apostles and writers in the New Testament.

Now the apostles were capable of miracles because of their faith in Jesus and what He was teaching. This sort of implies what you are talking about, but it goes back to what I said earlier. It does not mean that Jesus is equal to man, but it means that man can approach the level of Jesus. Jesus was perfect. He never sinned, and sin is an important concept in what He was teaching. All this simply implies that the purpose of man is to become Godlike. That is what we are striving for spiritually. Miracles and other acts performed by people are more or less "rewards" put in place by God for those who believe. Faith and lack of sin means anyone can perform miracles, but do you see many people performing miracles? Your logic is flawed because you do not have an understanding of the ideas and teachings of Jesus.
You also do not understand why Jesus died and rose from the dead. Christianity teaches that accepting Jesus as the Messiah will get you saved. However, the rewards one receives in Heaven is based upon the works one does on earth. Msg me if u want. Im out of space, lol.



posted on May, 4 2013 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
I would first like to address your flawed logic regarding Jesus being an ordinary person.


Well perhaps my logic is flawed..but I ask you logically. Can a frog mate with a mouse and create offspring? Only two of the same species can mate and produce offspring. And as we know from many years of practice, you can be a virgin and simply become artificially inseminated and still have a baby. So no, I would say my logic is quite sound, when I say it logically sounds like Jesus was a human. Remember you used the word logic, not faith, my logic is sound on this matter.


Now think about the theory of evolution, which states the exact opposite. This does not mean evolution is false, it just means there are highly spiritual implications.


If you read everything I wrote, thank you, but I never said I didn't believe that God the father made us, in fact I have stated I believe God the father did make us. I also believe in evolution and devolution. there is much scientific evidence in the fossil record for dinosaurs etc, and the evolution process. yet I still can accept along with evolution that a being could well have come and created mankind, especially as we still have not found the missing link between us and apes, where there should be one. There is no scientific evidence as of yet, that can explain why we are the only truly intelligent animals on this planet. I certainly believe apes are related to us however but I also believe there has been intervention in our development.



Peter never walked on water.


Well i thought he did, if I got that wrong my bad., I though the Bible stated he started to sink beneath the waves because his lack of faith...but if you insist it doesn't say that...fine...I'm sure the statement has already been copied and pasted in this thread that says he did walk on water.


But you are correct that it is faith that gave Jesus this ability. This type of faith is hardly ever achieved by most people, but the possibility is there.


Well we have some agreement.


Much of what He did and said was to imply that He was the Messiah. The only reason that He occasionally told people not to tell anyone about His miracles was because He did not want to draw all that much attention to himself. Why is this you ask?


Well if Jesus didn't want to draw attention to himself, why when pilot offered him a way out, why didn't he take it and deny he was the son of God? Also if he wanted to keep his miracles on the down low he would never have fed 5000 people, because that's 5000 witnesses, not something you want to do if you want to keep a low profile.


You also do not understand why Jesus died and rose from the dead. Christianity teaches that accepting Jesus as the Messiah will get you saved. However, the rewards one receives in Heaven is based upon the works one does on earth.


This I absolutely do not believe. I am not an atheist, as I already stated I believe God the father made us..I also stated I believe in the one universal, invisible God of everything that may possibly explain Jesu's miraculous abilities. I also believe there may be a physical heaven, as Jesus and many others ascend to it. However i do not believe you go to a physical heaven when you die, even if you are good. I know your brain is part of your body, and your mind is part of your brain, because when people get Alzheimers, brain scans prove the reason their memory gets deleted, is because their brain and neurons are damages and clogged up. this means your mind is part of your body, so if your body dies so does your mind.

The reason to be good in life is partly because it makes sense to be good and partly because most people are not born psychopaths, of course I know that normal people can be led astray and do evil things. But by being good, you keep your family and friends on side, by being decent and fair it helps to ensure your security and prosperity..Screwing people over almost always catches up with you in several ways, it makes enemies for you, witch can lead to violence against you and slander against your character, this in turn causes anxiety whilst you await the consequences of your actions, internally your in a state of discontentedness..and when in this state people turn to drink and drugs to escape their own mind..which in turn causes harm to their bodies..In short it is impractical and counter productive to be a bad person regardless of any hell after we die, plus most people are simply not that inclined to be very bad. The hell that the Bible talks about is one we make in our own minds...and so is the heaven.

To be good just to get to a physical heaven is a fallacy, it also is a selfish and materialistic reason to be good, and if you take that on board it is unchristian to do good things only because you expect a reward. Secondly another actual legitimate reason to be good is because it makes you feel more contented in life, and feeling contented is the optimum state of being, its a desirable state of being for most people. Following a selfish path, or one of so called sin, is always counter productive to your well being as most people in prison, strung out on heroin and crack and meth or standing on street corners can attest to. you get punished in this life if the only thing you pursue is selfishness, never mind the next life.

Also Christianity and most religions state it is our soul that goes on and is immortal. As I said we know our mind is mortal. if our soul goes on to another reality, you nor I will have any awareness of it, because our mind is mortal and decays and dies. I have no problem with any of this..I have no problem with knowing I was not here before I was born nor will i be around after i die, it does not fill me with dread or fear..In some ways to know this life will not go on forever is a comfort, and when the stone mason carves R.I.P in my head stone, i will hopefully be exactly as stated, resting in peace, with no mind to bother me any longer. The clinging on to the idea of a perfect heaven when we die is actually a very materialistic idea. I have no desire to share a heaven with every Christian, who believes simply because they ask for forgiveness, or accept Jesus as their savior, that they will get a free pass to a perfect dimension and I already stated you have left wing Christians and right wing ones, so don't fool yourself that all these opposing Christians would get on in heaven, they wouldn't, it would make heaven just the same as earth. As I said the human mind, includes the human ego and the knowledge of good and evil, you cannot have the knowledge of good and evil in a perfect heaven, the two concepts do not work together. And as i already said, nowhere have i ever read that the mind goes on after death, only the soul.


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edit on 4-5-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)
edit on 4-5-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by Danbones
first someone is going to have to prove that this "Jesus" actually existed for real
till then you might as well be learning how to spell in Klingon
edit on 2-5-2013 by Danbones because: (no reason given)


That is true - if it must be true for the message to be true. (whether as stated in the OP or any other interpretation. If thousands of years from now, only one man's account remained of the nuking of Hiroshima, but no evidence the man who supposedly wrote the letter remained, would the event itself be not-true? Or would it just be less-verified as a factual account based on the ambiguity regarding the writer?



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 05:35 AM
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This crap gets about 20 stars and this is the site that claims to deny ignorance? You people are delusional, lunatic fringe. How do you get from saying a guy who claimed to be the Messiah could walk on water to say that anyone could walk on water? Don't you think a guy in such a position would have a unique ability to do something of that sort? Why don't you just reject it and say it's nonsense but to just say that He did it because He had faith... no, either He didn't do it at all or He did it because He had miraculous power to violate physical laws, but not because of faith.

Why did it make the reference to Peter's faith? Which one of us could walk on water right now and not sink? But if you were friends with a guy who is proven to do miracles and is best friend's with the God of all the earth and He does it, then says, "Hey why don't you come out here and join me..." what then? I would be out there at the first opportunity. You don't just have faith that things fall up or that the sun freezes Mercury. That is clearly impossible!



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 06:21 AM
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Nice logic my friend. I will try to use this logic against my religious friends. But of course, my endeavor to put some logic in their lives will be fruitless as they will just find some way to refute everything I'll tell them. No matter how illogical their argument is.

Great thread. By the way, I'm not saying that religious people are stupid or anything like that, but my religious friends are not exactly the brightest.



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 06:25 AM
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Originally posted by Witness123
This crap gets about 20 stars and this is the site that claims to deny ignorance? You people are delusional, lunatic fringe. How do you get from saying a guy who claimed to be the Messiah could walk on water to say that anyone could walk on water? Don't you think a guy in such a position would have a unique ability to do something of that sort? Why don't you just reject it and say it's nonsense but to just say that He did it because He had faith... no, either He didn't do it at all or He did it because He had miraculous power to violate physical laws, but not because of faith.

Why did it make the reference to Peter's faith? Which one of us could walk on water right now and not sink? But if you were friends with a guy who is proven to do miracles and is best friend's with the God of all the earth and He does it, then says, "Hey why don't you come out here and join me..." what then? I would be out there at the first opportunity. You don't just have faith that things fall up or that the sun freezes Mercury. That is clearly impossible!

Whoa there, calm down. No need to attack us here. If you do not like this site, you are free to leave. But you must understand that this site is for conspiracy theories, and alternate opinions, not praising a supernatural deity.

Don't let religious beliefs cloud your judgment.



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 06:51 AM
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reply to post by extraterrestrialentity
 


Please! Do not ask us to cross heaven and earth to support our theories while your camp can just say, "Maybe," to whatever floats your boat and you have manufactured evidence. It does not work like that so at least make logical sense! You say you deny ignorance, then go forward doing that! Don't leave it to me to point out that most of this site makes baseless assertions in nearly every thread and you all star each other for it.



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 06:58 AM
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You don't get to sit around and post things like "the book of elxai, why do i not have a copy, it's a conspiracy man!" or take other issues like the catholic church having secret vaults of manuscripts of unpopular books. Or the one Akragon posted where he said "if aliens existed doesn't then that would prove..." What does it matter what it would prove? Why don't we first try to prove aliens exist before wondering about how it would just bolster our case? Do you intend on producing evidence to effect your argument? And if you don't have any what is the point in popping off with these views, like they have any support. They are all unsubstantiated!





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