Christianity cracked

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Danbones

 

What would you constitute as "proof"? Other than the bible, there is nothing else about Jesus in history. Unless you consider the NT is based around a real person, nothing will be proof enough for you.

So just admit it, nothing will convince you he was real.

I have a funny feeling if he was real as stated proof would be an easy day at the office for an actual
"son of the one true god(s) that created everything"

Its like aliens
If they want you to know they are real
They let you know
If they don't care if you know or not then you won't
Say, did you know the hieroglyph that contains the "reeds and the basket" refers to the story of the orphan in the basket, that was found on the river in the reeds by the queen, and who then grew up to be king, actually referes to
Sargon the great?
One of his son's hieroglyphs is " our Lord Amen " and his name was Menes.
they handed down from the ziggurat the first written civil law codes on stone tablets...
"thou shalt not murder" etc

Plagerized docs ( the bible is full of plagerizations such as I mention ) are not generally considered good proof.
question:
Do you TYTHE?

reply to post by Danbones


I'm not Christian, so no I don't.

I agree lots of the bible is plagiarized, but I still believe someone preached Jesus' message in the first century. Whether he was a man or whether he was named Jesus I don't know, but the wisdom in his words tell me that he was real and the corruption of his story (that I see) tell me that it wasn't all made up.

reply to post by TheBlackHat


Jesus wasn't special?

Even though He healed the sick, cast out demons, raised the dead, told the weather what to do, turned water into wine, and WALKED ON WATER?

Sounds totally normal.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Danbones

 

I'm not Christian, so no I don't.

I agree lots of the bible is plagiarized, but I still believe someone preached Jesus' message in the first century. Whether he was a man or whether he was named Jesus I don't know, but the wisdom in his words tell me that he was real and the corruption of his story (that I see) tell me that it wasn't all made up.

Don't tythe eh?
dang
I was all set to lay my "well great! have i got a bridge to sell you!" line on you


By the way I'm all for the sentimant of the commandments, but I think these laws and the practice of them goes back a couple thousand years before Christianity
christianity coming much later usurped the control of those laws inorder to
"First you get the money, and then you get the power..and then you get the women! " - Tony Montana in Scarface

reply to post by Danbones


Have you ever heard of the theory of Moses actually being an Egyptian pharaoh named Akhenaten? Compelling theory right there. He was even erased from history for over 2,000 years, which lends credence to the theory in my opinion.

There has been a lot of editing done to the bible to cover up the true story in my opinion, to both the OT and NT. One wonders why the Vatican has their library sealed. You'd think an institution supposedly based on truth wouldn't have anything to hide.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

dear 3NL1GHT3N3D1,

What about Peter or Paul raising people from the dead? They did that didn't they?

Yes they did. After they received the Holy Spirit and were filled with it. That miracle was done to them, after that they were changed people.

Or, am I missing your point?

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


So the tongues happened before they received the holy spirit? You're contradicting yourself it seems.

You seemed to be making an argument based around the fact that the miracles happened "to" them and not "by" them. Are you back tracking from that now? How was them raising people from the dead done "to" them? Wouldn't the miracles have been done "to" those they raised from the dead and not "to" the ones who performed them?

If they were done "to" the apostles, how are you so sure the miracles Jesus performed weren't done "to" him?

Originally posted by Danbones
first someone is going to have to prove that this "Jesus" actually existed for real
till then you might as well be learning how to spell in Klingon

edit on 2-5-2013 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

Got a link for ya.. www.kli.org... The Klingon Language Institute

There are LOTS of historical documents from Rome and the other governments at the time that have documents talking about Jesus and how Christianity so spread like wild fire, the governments didn't know how to react to the peoples new way of life. Yep.. Jesus was a man, lived on Earth - this is a proven fact.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What I believe is that the miracles were added in later to make Jesus seem like more than human. They had 20+ years between Jesus' death and the writing of the first gospel, more than enough time for TPTB of the time to make them up and insert them into his story.

Are you not assuming the gospel writers were dishonest men with an agenda to change the story of Jesus?

One could just as well assume that the gospel writers were honest and wrote the stories just as told by the disciples. The disciples were witnesses to the miracles. And they were convinced and left their former lives to obey Jesus instruction and go out into the world and spread the word. Furthermore, they were persecuted for doing it.

regards

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Dear 3NL1GHT3N3D1,

Oh dear, It's hppened again. Why can't I translate my thoughts into understandable words?

So the tongues happened before they received the holy spirit? You're contradicting yourself it seems

No, they were filled with the HolySpirit by a miracle they did not cause. That miracle resulted in their ability to speak in tongues and perform other miracles, such as the raising of the dead.

You seemed to be making an argument based around the fact that the miracles happened "to" them and not "by" them. Are you back tracking from that now?

I'm not trying to make an argument, I was answering someone's claim which I thought was that the Apostles caused the Holy Spirit to fill them. God caused that.

How was them raising people from the dead done "to" them? Wouldn't the miracles have been done "to" those they raised from the dead and not "to" the ones who performed them?

You're right, the miracles were done by God, through the Apostles, to those affected.

If they were done "to" the apostles, how are you so sure the miracles Jesus performed weren't done "to" him?

Because the Apostles did nothing to receive the Holy Spirit. They were hunkered down, in hiding, figuring that there was a contract out on each of them. Then the miracle occurred. In Jesus' miracles, He was the acting agent. He touched eyes and ears, He ordered people to arise and walk, He was the one who ordered the servants to fill the barrels with water.

Thanks for your patience with me.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by Danbones
first someone is going to have to prove that this "Jesus" actually existed for real
till then you might as well be learning how to spell in Klingon

edit on 2-5-2013 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

Got a link for ya.. www.kli.org... The Klingon Language Institute

There are LOTS of historical documents from Rome and the other governments at the time that have documents talking about Jesus and how Christianity so spread like wild fire, the governments didn't know how to react to the peoples new way of life. Yep.. Jesus was a man, lived on Earth - this is a proven fact.

LOL
good one JP thanks
have you got links to the proof of Jesus
I will read them if you do

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Dear 3NL1GHT3N3D1,

May I add a question or two to leostokes' post?

What I believe is that the miracles were added in later to make Jesus seem like more than human. They had 20+ years between Jesus' death and the writing of the first gospel, more than enough time for TPTB of the time to make them up and insert them into his story.

First, by 50 A.D. the Christians hadn't established themselves as a force to be reckoned with, why bother with them? Why introduce miracles that could only make Jesus more powerful and His followers more dedicated? Wouldn't that make them a bigger threat to those running the show?

Second, who were these "Powers That Be?" The Jews? Not a chance in the world. Jesus and his followers were a threat, they saw Him as a blasphemer. They wouldn't introduce miracles which helped prove they were wrong.

Then who? The Romans? The Romans that in a few years started persecuting, torturing and killing Christians? That doesn't make much sense either.

I guess I just don't follow.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by Danbones

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by Danbones
first someone is going to have to prove that this "Jesus" actually existed for real
till then you might as well be learning how to spell in Klingon

edit on 2-5-2013 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

Got a link for ya.. www.kli.org... The Klingon Language Institute

There are LOTS of historical documents from Rome and the other governments at the time that have documents talking about Jesus and how Christianity so spread like wild fire, the governments didn't know how to react to the peoples new way of life. Yep.. Jesus was a man, lived on Earth - this is a proven fact.

LOL
good one JP thanks
have you got links to the proof of Jesus
I will read them if you do

Start Here and go to Non Christian Sources down the page. en.wikipedia.org... Historicity of Jesus

Both Flavius Josephus and Tacitus wrote of him ( both Roman historians) as well as many others. It is my understanding there is no doubt among scholars that this man named Jesus was real. There is more than enough written material not from the Bible to support this. There are even Jewish non religious writings that speak of him. That being said exactly who or what he was remains a mystery.

Here is another source: www.agapebiblestudy.com...

Originally posted by TheBlackHat
reply to post by ValentinoG

 

Yes exactly. Also when you look at the quantum world, and recent experiments, it suggests that reality is based on our observations of it. And even further back the famous double slit experiment, proved that the atomic particles react to our observations, known as the observer effect. Well, if everything is made of atoms, literally all matter, and if our observing of matter can affect its behavior, then you can state consciousness affects the behavior or state of matter..its already been proven at the quantum level as FACT. Jesus apparently was able to use his consciousness to affect matter on a much larger scale, somehow he understood this principal thousands of years ahead of science, but further more he somehow amplified the observer effect to make it achieve incredible miracles, he was able to bend reality with his consciousness, Aka NEO from the Matrix, and more than that Jesus tried to tell us all that we are capable of doing it too..i believe Buddhas message was the same thing.

edit on 2-5-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)

With enhanced Synchronicity everything seem to be possible. Some day humanity will have quantified how the chakra (or something that are similar to chakras work) or energy/strings or whatever they are in the body is connected to reality around us and how we can affect it. In the oneness there is calmness and a feeling of love that most people cant even imagine.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by TheBlackHat

 

you can stay immortal here on earth in the flesh.

Stay in a world full of pain, sorrow and destruction?

God sakes I hope you're wrong... I only want to remain in this "prison" as long as I have to...

Akragon . This place cannot hold you if you do not want it to for some reason either higher or lower. But thanks for being here. You make this place easier to handle. Seeing that cat makes me smile.

I know I am jumping in late here. But just to address your first premise, Jesus DID NOT ever say that we are ALL God's children.

Your crack goes downhill from there.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by TheBlackHat

 

you can stay immortal here on earth in the flesh.

Stay in a world full of pain, sorrow and destruction?

God sakes I hope you're wrong... I only want to remain in this "prison" as long as I have to...

I ABHOR MOST OF YOUR TOUCHY FEELY CRAP BUT THATS SWEET

Originally posted by kijne
Wow...where do I even start?



Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”

31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”

Uh, i think that's pretty much what I said.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by charles1952

 

So the tongues happened before they received the holy spirit? You're contradicting yourself it seems.

You seemed to be making an argument based around the fact that the miracles happened "to" them and not "by" them. Are you back tracking from that now? How was them raising people from the dead done "to" them? Wouldn't the miracles have been done "to" those they raised from the dead and not "to" the ones who performed them?

If they were done "to" the apostles, how are you so sure the miracles Jesus performed weren't done "to" him?

edit on 3-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

From my point of view: Tongues come after the holy spirit because the light is affecting the human speech center and makes the brain more creative and active. It is like small kids talking different languages before they learn their motherlanguage. Some of it is also channeling of information from the other side but if it is useful or not is up to the observer.

And Paul receiving the spirit based on the views he had would surprise me. You can hope but I am very skeptical. So much hate and duality in his preaching.