Why can't you be saved after death?

reply to post by stars15k

Perhaps I can help a bit.

The OP is right. How would a loving, forgiving Father put people into situations that make any knowledge of Christ impossible without giving everyone a chance? It is neither loving or forgiving to think that because someone has the misfortune to be born, say, as a woman in Afghanistan (many never see any man that is not part of their family and never travel outside of their home, plus no education) they won't ever reach paradise. . But if I lead a life of being a really, really bad person, why should I get to heaven over my sister in Afghanistan who spends her life giving selflessly to others? I shouldn't.
Jesus even taught this himself with the parable of the Good Samaritan. The religious people that didn't help would be like the Christians who don't live up to the title; the non-religious, outsider, non-believer who did right was the person to emulate.
It's why I rejected the church I grew up in at catechism, for that very reason. And the same goes for children and babies....they all come from heaven, and they all go back to heaven even if someone didn't sprinkle water on them. That's just stupid.
And Heavenly Father...is far from stupid.

Is there any possibility that there was a misunderstanding in your Catechism class? Maybe, some of the details where left out because of the age of the participants? Here's what's in the Catholic Catechism on the subject:

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery." Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism. (Emphasis added

Hope that answers your complaints.

reply to post by charles1952


And there's the whole pre-conformation to Christ thing in the early part of Romans. Not only can you get to heaven through the 'natural man' path as you spell out, but some people get there because they are saved by God's choice. There's a section in Romans, IIRC, where they were debating whether Moses was roasting in hell despite being one of God's chosen, as he had not accepted Christ. The decision was that he was not.

reply to post by borntowatch

Yes there they are...sigh.
Do they offend you

take it or leave it

Atheists who went to hell and returned, they also have preconceived notions

Exactly as I've said... no one without a preconceived notion of hell ever experience it... We call it religious brainwashing... Meaning even if one is an atheist... He still has that preconceived notion

And no they don't offend me...I understand peoples fears...

Fear is a powerful tool for those who use it.

Originally posted by Xeven
Can a person repent and accept Jesus as savior after death? If not why not? Evidently we all continue on after this life, some heading to heaven and other heading to hell. Why are we resrticted to make this choice during this life or are we?

After I die, if I see God and Jesus and Satan I'll then finally have enough evidence to convince me they exist. Why can I not then go oh ok you got me! I believe...Why would god give us so little evidence to make our choice when belief will be obvious in the afterlife?

Because death is what you are being saved from.

funny
I know of three "hell's gates"
they are all watercourses

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen
reply to post by Xeven

 

Related, the Catholic Church has a tradition that souls can be prayed out of purgatory.

Purgatory is not hell. If someone goes to hell, they go to hell and no amount of prayer is going to change that. However, the Catholic Church also teaches that we have no idea who, if anyone, is in hell. For all we know, God, in his infinite mercy, saves everyone, though I certainly wouldn't count on it.

reply to post by adjensen

certainly one has to wonder about pedofile priests

Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by adjensen

 

certainly one has to wonder about pedofile priests

One has to wonder about 99.9% of the human race. We're all sinners, to varying degrees.

Though I agree with you -- those who harm children, particularly in an environment where they should be utterly safe from harm, are beyond repugnant. But, ultimately, it is not for us to judge.

reply to post by Xeven


Luke.16 Verses 19 to 31

[19] "There was a rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.
[20] And at his gate lay a poor man named Laz'arus, full of sores,
[21] who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table; moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22] The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried;
[23] and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Laz'arus in his bosom.
[24] And he called out, `Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Laz'arus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.'
[25] But Abraham said, `Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Laz'arus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish.
[26] And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.'
[27] And he said, `Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house,
[28] for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
[29] But Abraham said, `They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'
[30] And he said, `No, father Abraham; but if some one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
[31] He said to him, `If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.'"

maybe its like asking why cant I get a SCHOOL IN CLASS teaching OUT OF CLASS and so we LEARN thru the cycles EVENTUALLY thru class why IN CLASS as opposed to Recess for whoever why OUT of CLASS?

reply to post by Xeven


There is more than ample evidence of God and it can be proven outside the Bible if you look hard enough with sincere thought.

Read this: Answers

Here is the Table of Contents: Link

This free online book lays out a very good explanation to the existence of God from a scientific standpoint. I hope each of you give it a try.

God Bless!

Everyone is BEING saved by God...salvation is deliverance from death(not just physical).That is what Yahoshua(Jesus) name(which is the nature of the thing named) means ...Yahoshua=Yahweh(God) is salvation.
It's good to see some folks are hearing the truth from God.The doctrine of the eternal punishment of hell is the most blasphemous doctrine conceived and believed by man.Not only does our 'intuition" tell us it isn't true the scriptures do also. God is NOT a heinous monster with a warped sense of justice.Here are just a few of the MANY scriptures that agree with this great truth.

John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that ALL men through him WILL BELIEVE. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.That was the true Light, which lights EVERY MAN that comes into the world.

Eph. 1:10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works ALL THINGS according to the counsel of HIS WILL[not mans]."

1 Cor 15:22For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

Philp 2:9Why God also has highly exalted him, and given him a NAME (Yahoshua... Gods salvation) which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus(Yahoshua) EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Timothy. 2:6 "But we see Jesus(Yahoshua), who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he, by the grace of God, should taste death for EVERY man."

Heb. 2:9 "And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours ONLY but also for the sins of the WHOLE world."

1Timothy 2:3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God OUR Savior;Who WILL have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering towards us, NOT WILLING that ANY should perish, but that ALL will come to repentance."

Is. 53:2(John 12:32) "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto Me.

Titus 2:11 The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL MEN."

Luke 2:10..Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to ALL people."

1 John 4:14 We have seen, and do testify, that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior(Yahoshua) of the WORLD."

1 John 2:2.he (Yahoshua) "is" the sacrifice for our sins, and NOT for ours only but ALSO for the WHOLE world

John 12:47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him NOT: for I came NOT TO JUDGE the world, but to SAVE the world

1 Tim. 4:9-11 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach."

Acts 3:20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ [the anointed one]appointed for YOU, Jesus[Yahoshua .. Gods salvation], 21 whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring ALL the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.

Luke 2:10 And the angel said to them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you GOOD NEWS of great joy that will be for ALL the people.

2 Cor. 5:14 Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for ALL, and therefore ALL died."

John 6:33 The Bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives Life to the WORLD."

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by adjensen

 

certainly one has to wonder about pedofile priests

One has to wonder about 99.9% of the human race. We're all sinners, to varying degrees.

Though I agree with you -- those who harm children, particularly in an environment where they should be utterly safe from harm, are beyond repugnant. But, ultimately, it is not for us to judge.

i agree with you its not for us to judge after they are dead
a jury of their peers has the right to judge them up till then

It's like if a guy is totally packing in his pants, if he drops them to show off, then you might have someone marry the dude only because of his junk. And that would be a travesty.

reply to post by borntowatch


I asked a simple question to tell me who documented it besides the bible and your answer is the bible? Then you say there is no point trying to explain, will I take that as a sign that you don't have an answer?

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Yes there they are...sigh.
Do they offend you

take it or leave it

Atheists who went to hell and returned, they also have preconceived notions

Exactly as I've said... no one without a preconceived notion of hell ever experience it... We call it religious brainwashing... Meaning even if one is an atheist... He still has that preconceived notion

And no they don't offend me...I understand peoples fears...

Fear is a powerful tool for those who use it.

I thought the atheists notion was hell didnt exist, but whatever, what...ever

reply to post by borntowatch


Excuse me but don't tell me to stuff it, I asked what proof you have that it is documented besides the bible and you don't have an answer and then insult me. Sign of a weak argument when you resort to insulting someone who is inquiring about what proof you have and not what Jesus would have done but let me guess I suppose that you know better than Jesus. I have to laugh at your type it is either I am right or stuff it. Preach about a religion and then totally miss the whole point of the religion by acting like a spoiled brat when someone dares question it. Do you think that Jesus went around telling people to stuff it when someone questioned him?

Why can't you be saved after death?

Because you'll be dead.

There's always the Walt Disney approach, though. His body has supposedly been saved in a frozen cryogenic state, but that's just his lifeless shell. His actual existence ended about 50 years ago.









reply to post by Todzer

This is obviously just my opinion, but your best option would probably be to just stop trying. There is no conclusion to that sort of conversation. It will only go round and round and round, while never actually going anywhere at all........

reply to post by Xeven


Use your brain, and study human nature. Then you will see that religion is nothing but a trap. They use fear to control you. Do as they say or burn in hell. Its a disgusting, evil lie.