Next Asian crisis arrives: Chinese soldiers make military incursion into India- India considers resp

Originally posted by Alternative4u

Next Asian crisis arrives: Chinese soldiers make military incursion into India- India considers response

theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com

China has over the last few days moved troops into India.
A platoon of Chinese soldiers slipped across the boundary into India in the middle of the night, according to Indian officials. They were ferried across the bitterly cold moonscape in Chinese army vehicles, then got out to traverse a dry creek bed with a helicopter hovering overhead for protection. They finally reached their destination and pitched a tent in the barren Depsang Valley in the Ladakh region, a symbolic claim of sovereignty deep inside Indian-held territory. So stealthy was the operation that India did not discover the incursion until a day later, Indian officials said. China denies any incursion, but Indian officials say that for two weeks, the soldiers have refused to move back over the so-called Line of Actual Control that divides Indian-ruled territory from Chinese-run land, leaving the government on the verge of a crisis with its powerful northeastern neighbor.

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edit on 5/2/2013 by semperfortis because: (no reason given)

Anyone ever see "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya"? I doubt most will get it as I have been self censoring myself in regard to India and it's citizens/ethnics. First it was the US revamping it's visa program in regards to India's bigoted and predatory abuse of it, now the possible beginnings of a war with China.

Granted this is all coincidental, as the visa abusing companies of India have burned many affluent western investors(notice how Warren Buffets heir apparent who was Hindu/Indian got the boot? As soon as Hindu's get into a management position in a Western Company, they find reasons to fire Western/White/Black/Hispanic/Asians to replace them with fellow ignorant Hindu's).

And the looming war with China? China needs war with India now. As talk in America that it is now or never, for China in regards to India it has never been truer. Unlike America, and Americans, India isn't a viable trade partner with China, it is competitor. Also, unlike China, India has abandoned any attempt at population control and is instead embracing population growth as the future of it's nation in an almost imperial long term outlook.

Lastly, it doesn't hurt that India is sitting on a ton of Thorium and China is energy hungry. Due to China's military advantage over India, and the fact that the Chinese buffer area between India is a troublesome province (China wouldn't lose much sleep if India nuked Tibet), India cannot even rely on it's nuclear arsenal.

In the advent of war, a large chunk of India's population could starve to death as all China would have to do is target India's strategic grain reserves and it's farmlands. Given the current rise in food prices, India would either have to sacrifice war resources to feed the population or they would have to simply let hundreds of millions starve. A horrible fate for any people to be sure, but the path India has taken has all but assured that outcome.


This has been a lucky month, Justice is sweet.

reply to post by korathin


Are you so pissed off with India just over the visa issue or there is something more to it?

I agree with you that cultural issues always come to the fore when working with foreigners. Indians have one common shortcoming (probably an Asian problem) that they can be condescending to subordinates. I have worked with Americans, Europeans, Chinese and of course Indians and I know what you are talking about.

However taking this issue to the conclusion that China should attack India, destroy food reserves and let millions die of hunger seems like taking it too far.

I do not know what China is up to, but Chinese seem like reasonable people to me. However I cannot say the same for many Americans and Europeans.

If you think US politicians are corrupt, Indian politicians are 100s times worse. If you believe WikiLeaks, US paid tons of money for Indian politicians to be pro-US ( the deal must have be similar to what Karzai is getting, cash in bags). Once upon a time, Russia use to be India's biggest arm supplier, but current Indian politicians are pro-US, you wonder why.

Indian politicians have zero vision for future India, where as Chinese leaders are focussed on becoming super power.

reply to post by VimanaExplorer


Agree.

But there is much more to it than what you say.

I never said that India is great. There is no similarity between Bharat of Sri Krishna and today's India.

But it is a long story for some other time how we arrived to this state.

However believe me that India can defend itself despite its corrupt politicians. And I shall be proven right.

Originally posted by VimanaExplorer
If you think US politicians are corrupt, Indian politicians are 100s times worse. If you believe WikiLeaks, US paid tons of money for Indian politicians to be pro-US ( the deal must have be similar to what Karzai is getting, cash in bags). Once upon a time, Russia use to be India's biggest arm supplier, but current Indian politicians are pro-US, you wonder why.

Indian politicians have zero vision for future India, where as Chinese leaders are focussed on becoming super power.

I would not blame Indian government for buying from the West. They do not show favors what they see and correctly lock on are the lifetime costs and utility of the weapons. If US C300 Globemaster can haul much more weight for less fuel and breaks down much less frequently then it will be a winner against any other plane. I think same was with Rafael. Russian Mig-35 although nearly half as cheap lacked several very strategic factors like nearly stealth, much advanced avionics, have better parts supply and best of all technology transfer with $5B of reinvestment into Indian economy. In many a ways, Rafaels are coming for free given $5B will result in $15B of economic growth as a result of money multiplier etc.

Where Indians lack is the R&D and bureaucratic issues when getting a design to the production lines. Also, recently it seems kickbacks have become a standard feature of the weapons procurement. Here some hard whip or direct government to government dealings need to take place.

World respects only the strong, rich and resourceful. If one projects itself as weak then that is inviting aggression. Making alliances is one way to insure that even near Superpower will not take liberties on the freedoms of any country. Either you all hang together or you all will hang separately. A poster already mentioned how NATO used this logic to ward off Soviet communist expansions in the Western Europe. Either you all hang together or you all will hang separately.

reply to post by victor7


India has chosen a side but that side has not chosen India.

Our politicians and intelligentsia are West-leaning but West is not India leaning.

This is all I can say.

Do not expect India to stand upright in a short time after 1000 years of abominable slavery and 2000 years of military defeats. Yes there is a lack of self-confidence. Yes society still has significant problems. Yet there are positive factors that you are unable to see.

Will make another post about positive factors.

reply to post by GargIndia


Sorry to disagree again but India chose the Socialist side from mid 50s and upto early 90s. Until Socialism's elder brother Communism was defeated, India was too afraid to take any bold steps in reforms.

India has not chosen west either now. For that I do commend Indian independent thinking. To adopt market reforms does not mean chosing the west. Also west will never be 'all in all' for India as West has some serious racial prefrences and India is not a white country.

Do not blame thousand years of that or that totally. Blame the decisions you took after 1945 independence. Indians have lots of excuses for their daily problems and are timid in taking bold decisions. Whole countries have changed drastically in mere two generations i.e. 30-40 years.

Finally like China, do not make the mistake of looking at the west for aid and orders. Create things within and if they have a good quality for price, the orders will flow in. Markets seek profits as the main objective.

reply to post by victor7


1. I am not comparing China with India. I know the positive points of China - the biggest is hard-working people.

2. India's biggest drawback is disunity among people. We came from a situation when there were hundreds of petty kingdoms in India and similar number of religious sects. There is historical baggage which will take time to dissolve.

3. India is not a socialist country by any yardstick. India is a capitalistic country at heart due to its culture.

4. India's elite is remarkably West-leaning. Our elite lack 'independent' thinking. British are still idolized by our elite. If you have doubt, talk to our civil servants.

5. You can disagree with me but I shall be proven right in time.

reply to post by GargIndia


India's biggest drawback is its soft culture that accepts the low standards in small to big things in life. Majority of such areas can be upgraded without spending billions in funds. Implementing law abiding habits like not throwing stuff on streets, keeping their house and surrounding boundaries clean etc. do not require a major or even minor or even minute chunk of the budget.

India calls itself a democracy but in reality its people severely abuse the freedoms given by the system. Hence most of system gets really messed up.

Also, I do not consider Indians to be religious or having a strong belief in the Higher Powers. When that is lacking then belief in oneself also diminishes.

reply to post by victor7


The soft culture and acceptance of low standards is due to destruction of India's original culture.
However people have begun to regain their confidence. It is happening and will accelerate in future.

India is not an aggressive country and will not become an aggressive country. I do not know whether it is good or bad.

However people will eventually become assertive as self-confidence grows and will demand better governance as well as better services.

I believe you misunderstand me.

Originally posted by GargIndia
India cannot be a counterweight to China's superpower ambitions. As China and Russia could not stop USA from becoming superpower, India cannot stop China from becoming superpower.

I never said India can and should stop China from becoming a superpower. What I meant was India should ally with China's neighbors as a deterent of further aggression.

Originally posted by GargIndia
The situation you describe is an imaginary one - that China and Pakistan and everybody else attacks India at the same time. We do not know if this will happen and why this will happen. Nothing happens without significant reason.

I don't recall ever saying China, Pakistan and everybody else attack India. Most of your responses confound me.

What I did say is for India to ally with countries, like Japan, Philippines, Taiwan, and South Korea, whether it be politically, militarily, and/or economically. At the very least, a Mutual Defense Pact would suffice. Why not? Those countries are feeling the pressure from China flexing its muscles. An alliance between India and these potential allies may force China to reconsider their expansionistic goals. Plus, an alliance between these countries can start a trend where other countries in the region, especially the smaller ones, wish to join the alliance so they don't get swallowed up by China.

Originally posted by GargIndia
Even if it happens, India has to defend itself with its own resources. This is how it is.

Most of your responses are very pro-India. Can I assume you live in or your ancestry is from India? If yes, then I respect your patriotism.

That being said, there are realities we all should accept. "2 is better than 1." "Together we stand stronger." "The enemy of my enemy is my [convenient ally]."

Why do you say, "This is how it is", without any reasons for your logic? Please elaborate. Is it because you said:

Originally posted by GargIndia
India has chosen a side but that side has not chosen India. Our politicians and intelligentsia are West-leaning but West is not India leaning.

Why not see which way the Far East (e.g., Japan, Philippines, Taiwan, and South Korea) is leaning towards? Even if the West hasn't come around, it doesn't mean the West will never change their minds or views. Give it time. When China becomes a bigger danger, India may find the West knocking on the door bearing gifts.

reply to post by Alternative4u

i've heard of this before, and even pointed it out.

"The events taking place in Europe are a deception. Russia will be the scourge for all nations, because it was not converted. Russia attacks the West, and China invades in Asia." - Lucia, the last living seer from Fatima, April 7, 1990

and also:

- India will be occupied by China.
- New diseases used as weapons will cause 25 million people to die.
- Persia and Turkey will be conquered apparently by Russian troops.
- Revolutionaries will instigate unrest and war in India and Egypt to facilitate the occupation of India and Europe. - The Russians will conquer the Balkans.
- There will be great destruction in Italy.
- The "red storm" will approach France through Hungary, Austria, northern Italy and Switzerland. France will be conquered from inside and outside.
- American supply depots will fall into Russian hands.
- Germany will be attacked from the east.
- There will be a civil war, Germans will fight against Germans.
- The Eastern Bloc will cause a civil war in England.
- Russia will lead a mass attack against the United States, so U.S. forces will be prevented from reinforcing Europe.
- New weapons will cause huge hurricanes and firestorms in the USA where the largest cities will be destroyed.

Anton Johansson, Sweden, (1858 - 1909)

www.santanu.in...

yes, shaping up exactly as predicted.

reply to post by guppy


Guppy, I respect your views. You can speak in a forum which includes decision makers of the Indian government.

I am not against forming alliances.

What I understand from policies of the Indian government and the events that have occurred is that Indian Government by and large is scared of the West, while trying to emulate the West at the same time. It is a strange behaviour no doubt, and I suspect India's ruling structure is either incompetent or bought-out, or both.

The best alliances candidates for India are Japan and Indonesia. Both countries have a history of no enmity to India.

South Korea cannot be an alliance as Korea is too influenced historically by Chinese policies.

Vietnam is also a strong candidate for alliance.

There are better alliance candidates in central Asia - Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, are strong candidates.

However there is little chance of success of such alliances at the moment due to weakness of governance in India. An alliance means give and take. India cannot make an alliance just for its own security, it will also have to work towards the security of the allied party.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


The whole catholic church is a deception.

I refuse to believe any prophecy that is coming out of any person associated with the catholic church.

reply to post by GargIndia


Ahhh! Thanks for the details. Makes perfect sense. I did not know the Indian gov't had such fears of the West. Is it fear the West would destroy India's unique identity and rich culture? Now, I wonder what may happen to India in the next 10, 20 and 50 years.

Perhaps in the decades to come, China may find itself in trouble. Check out the following ATS discussion and news article about China's possible future:

ATS : China may not overtake America this century after all
Source : China may not overtake America this century after all

Originally posted by GargIndia
reply to post by guppy

 

However there is little chance of success of such alliances at the moment due to weakness of governance in India. An alliance means give and take. India cannot make an alliance just for its own security, it will also have to work towards the security of the allied party.

That's why India should make alliance only with Japan which also has alliance with the US. This way China would think 1000 times before doing something stupid with any of the three nations. Making an alliance with Vietnam or Indonesia or treacherous Afganis or Uzbeks is all micky mouse stuff. That show will only invite more aggression.

Till the time West is led by the US, India has little to fear of losing its identity or whatever. US is not an expansionist type country which grabs lands and inslaves people. India can still keep its identity, religion and culture and be very forefront with global advances and technologies.

reply to post by victor7


Victor7, I appreciate your views.

Japan is already quite a significant economic partner. This does not extend to the military sphere yet. Maybe will happen in future.

Western people may not realize but India has a very deep cultural and economic relationship with Indonesia going back in history.

Afghanistan and Uzbekistan should not be counted out despite the difficulties. India is the strongest candidate to bring this region to peace.

And I want to clarify, I do not count China as an enemy. I count it as a competing civilization. The relationship with China should have been much better if certain of India's leaders were not as influenced by West as they are.

Our civilization is already destroyed (almost) by repeated attacks from the West. But there is a revival and this will gather pace.

reply to post by GargIndia


While China is reaping the fruits of capitalism by riding the back of the western orders for its 'slave labor shops' produced goods, why is China jealous of India developing terms with the 'mostly successful' civilization of the west?

Chinese civilization might be as old Indian but today's and last 50 years of China is nothing but a godless commie nation that cannot be trusted at all.

Chinese know very well that India is not an expansionist minded nation and is mostly fighting the internal challenges of poverty, population and several others. India has little time or energy to spend on 'land grabbing' in Chinese way.

Regarding terms with Indonesia and Afghan etc. Have economic terms with them but nothing like an alliance or cultural exchanges. I would never trust Islamic nations and even those with progressive minded approach on the surface. But for oil they have little to show for. Majority of Islamic populations around the globe are 'middle ages' minded. Except for South America, each single continent has been a target of their senseless medieval agendas.

Indian policy has been mostly independent and that is appreciated. However making alliances to ward off expansionist minded neighbors is highly needed in the hostile world fighting for resources like land and water.

reply to post by victor7


We should not call China "godless commie nation". At least 40% of Chinese population is Buddhist. I have eaten plenty of Chinese "vegetarian" food courtesy of these Buddhists.

China has allowed Buddhism to spread in its population. I cannot say the same of any India based religion spreading in the West.

So there is a difference in China's approach and West's approach which we should not lose sight of.

I am absolutely comfortable working with Muslims of Indonesia and central Asia. There is a problem in Afghanistan at the moment (a creation of CIA), which will eventually be sorted. Afghanistan is a mess due to drugs export and weapons import at the behest of outside parties.

My view is that India should frame policies that boosts its real role - by solving real problems facing humanity inside the country, and outside starting with immediate neighbourhood. I do not believe military aggressiveness will solve problems in this part of the world.

reply to post by GargIndia


Till the time Commies are in power in China, whole world should be careful of them.

Islamics are human beings too, I am not saying just boycott them. But they have short circuit regarding the religion so have to keep them on a cautious watch too.