You don't have Free Will.

reply to post by TheBandit795


I respectfully disagree.

I saw will make miracles. I know it exists.

Humans have something very special. It looks like a spark. Every humans has it. Some act purely on autopilot, yes, but not all. All have some sort of spark, and these people which have this spark will see things differently. Act differently. Make unexpected decisions. These people are History's geniuses. People who went against mainstream and were proven right by the future. These people have a soul, and it overrides the autopilot. These people can be you and me. And science will always be far from completely understanding that mysterious spark which pushes a mind to suddenly become a glorious flame of genius. That's because that spark is beyond science's instruments - it's called the Soul.

reply to post by TheBandit795


Im sorry to break it to you, but you are wrong. The 'free will' you talk about is not the ability to be 100% in control of your brain (think limitless).

Free will is the ability to be able to comprehend more than one choice of action. Even if you can't immediately think of other options available for you, it doesn't mean those options don't exist.

You are basically stating that we are robots. AI is what drives most sheeple on the planet, you are right about that! But to say free will doesn't exist would mean that we cannot comprehend the fact that we are sheeple. Catch my drift?

In other words, free will is not the ability to choose what we do. It is the knowledge that we are not limited to one choice, even if we dont like the other choices available for us to make!

reply to post by NorEaster

What you see, feel, smell, taste, hear, and sense happened at least a half second ago. The brain/mind processing system requires at least that much time to configure all incoming data, internally generated data, and compare-contrast recognition/response data before you're allowed to experience it as yet another frame in your life movie. Yes, it's a delay, but for the most part, your survival is better served by a slight delay than by allowing you to experience a completely unprocessed existence progression.

Ya well everything happens in hindsight. Must be because everything looks better in hindsight. That is unless you do not actually have 2 seconds to process a thing. In which case you would be totally screwed, but free will, well its kind of obvious the majority consensus of it is lets say a bit wrong. It may be that everything in our life's that has happened may just be predestined in a way, but how would we know any of that if we experience everything in hindsight and always lagging behind the real here and now world? Interpreting data is in itself a complex thing, and most people like always forget to add the observer into there equation. There may even be no such thing as one overall correct interpretation, there may only be interpretations.

reply to post by akushla99


I think you basically get the idea. Awesome thread for discussion.

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by akushla99

 

I think you basically get the idea. Awesome thread for discussion.

edit on 2-5-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

I more-than-basically 'get the idea'...

Cheers

A99

Originally posted by Lucius Driftwood
reply to post by galadofwarthethird

 

Do I get to choose at what point my wife conceives amidst all the times we have sex?
Is my virility or her barrenness predetermined?
Am I free to have sex with her? Am I free to make her pregnant?

Ah you just may want to consider that the answer is a yes to all of your questions. Or not...There you see you like totally have free will. But lets just say that somebody or something or some force it may even be biological may actually get to decide whats what in all those questions, so no you do not have any free choice per say in any of that, you merely react to the choices presented you, so therefore you do not have free will. I could go on, but why bother.

Also if your considering all that which I know your really not, well you just may want to consider that yes the whole thing just may be predestined even the fact that you met your wive may be so, and including every other detail in your life. The only question would be how would you know? Off course you would not know. And so your free to make any choice you like.

Originally posted by CornShucker
I'm confused... So does that mean that Pee-Wee actually said, "I meant to do that" 2 - 10 seconds before he ran his bike into the curb???

Yes, it was all part of the plot, off course.

reply to post by Freenrgy2

You raise the question that most use to legitimize the concept of free will. Sure, you are FREE (i.e. not restricted) to make choices, but the freedom to make choices does not constitute free will. If you WILL something, can you do so in the context that the choice you make, has not been influenced or caused for you to make that choice at that particular time. In order for you to absolute FREE WILL, you must me able to make choices without them having been caused for you to have made them in the first place.

This is why this whole topic is very thought provoking when you break it down everything is in being because of outside influence and the only thing that has ever had true free will is the creator, it is impossible to implement this idea of free will as it's described because every thought we have is influenced by things in existance.

So instead of free will, it should be said I have freedom of choice... within reason

reply to post by akushla99


Jumping to conclusions here? When did I say that we should not be responsible (and accountable) for our actions and our lives? The two are not mutually exclusive. Conscious lack of free will does not mean that you cannot take ownership of those subconscious thoughts, actions and habits that you do and commit.
The subconscious/unconscious is programmable and you are able to reprogram it do make you have the thoughts, feeling, habits and actions necessary for you to be able direct your life to whatever you want it to be.

I have a thread on "psychological reversal". Can't link to it right now because I'm on a mobile device.

"Psychological reversal" means you've made a conscious decision to do "A", but your subconscious mind forces you to do "B" instead.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
reply to post by akushla99

 

Jumping to conclusions here? When did I say that we should not be responsible (and accountable) for our actions and our lives? The two are not mutually exclusive. Conscious lack of free will does not mean that you cannot take ownership of those subconscious thoughts, actions and habits that you do and commit.
The subconscious/unconscious is programmable and you are able to reprogram it do make you have the thoughts, feeling, habits and actions necessary for you to be able direct your life to whatever you want it to be.

I have a thread on "psychological reversal". Can't link to it right now because I'm on a mobile device.

I am 'able to reprogram it'...how?
...and should I take responsibility for the unforeseen consequences based on this...erm...choice to reprogram?

A99

Back on a pc. Here's the link:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Could not get yourself to study for an exam that you know you had to pass?
Could not get yourself to perform as well in sports in public venues as you would do in pickup games with your friends?
Could not get yourself to approach a girl you were absolutely sure that she liked you?
Could not touch a perfectly harmless animal that you were afraid of? Or any other totally illogical fears?
Could not get the motivation to do a simple chore or job that you know would benefit you?
Can't seem to get yourself out of having an argument or a fight with your significant other, relatives or friends? Trouble follows you around?
Have you ever procrastinated?

If you have ever experienced any of this or anything similar, which you most probably have, you will have experienced psychological reversal. Where you can't get yourself to do something, unless you have a very strong will.

(my opinion has since slightly changed about that last sentence)

reply to post by TheBandit795


The most disturbing thing about this is that the more intelligent you are, the easier you are to manipulate and if you are on the lower end of intelligence, you can simply be told what to do.

Ive touched on this more than a few times but people do not like it when you tell them the truth.

It is even easier to manipulate a person who is emotionally charged about a topic or stressed etc which creates a paradox because anyone annoyed at someone explaining this to them actually becomes easier to manipulate.

Hence why I believe the wise man keeps his mouth shut when an idiot screams.

reply to post by XXXN3O


Um...paradox? Their emotions make a paradox?

reply to post by TheBandit795


That I can agree with.

In my case it is so fun to do my 'second hobby' that I am even loosing girls! Like she wants to go out on a date and I am too mixed up in all this learning and just chilling out. Sucks lol

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by XXXN3O

 

Um...paradox? Their emotions make a paradox?

Probably better to use the word irony, sorry for that.

Irony in that explaining to someone that they are manipulated causes an emotional reaction, if it hits home, causing it to become easier to manipulate the person to your truth or anyone elses.

Hope that makes sense.

The problem is not that we do not have free will, its simply that we do not understand how to use it or what it actually is anymore especially with responsibility for actions.

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by TheBandit795
reply to post by akushla99

 

Jumping to conclusions here? When did I say that we should not be responsible (and accountable) for our actions and our lives? The two are not mutually exclusive. Conscious lack of free will does not mean that you cannot take ownership of those subconscious thoughts, actions and habits that you do and commit.
The subconscious/unconscious is programmable and you are able to reprogram it do make you have the thoughts, feeling, habits and actions necessary for you to be able direct your life to whatever you want it to be.

I have a thread on "psychological reversal". Can't link to it right now because I'm on a mobile device.

I am 'able to reprogram it'...how?
...and should I take responsibility for the unforeseen consequences based on this...erm...choice to reprogram?

A99

edit on 2-5-2013 by akushla99 because: (no reason given)

You see, the problem here is defining when exactly you could be said to have...reprogrammed anything...if you can't remember this occasion...you can remove yourself from its unforeseen consequences, and claim that it means you had no free will input...and therefore, no responsibility...

'it wasn't my fault, your honour, I just gave him a BB gun on his 11th birthday'

A99

Originally posted by TheBandit795
reply to post by Covertblack

 

You are already on autopilot at least 95% of the time.

edit on 2-5-2013 by TheBandit795 because: add the "reply to"

So I am really not responsible for my posts?

My brain is on autopilot 95% of the time that means 95% of the trouble I get in to is not by my own free will.

Please clarify.

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by TheBandit795
reply to post by akushla99

 

akushla99
You see, the problem here is defining when exactly you could be said to have...reprogrammed anything...if you can't remember this occasion...you can remove yourself from its unforeseen consequences, and claim that it means you had no free will input...and therefore, no responsibility...

Reprogramming would involve memory and time and so proves a free will aspect, so you can change it, dial back, and change the Consequences that were a PRODUCT of SOMEONE ELSES free will forced or introduced upon your being. If I truly had the self given gift (TOTALITY full control) of "free will", I would choose not to take the destination of death as a option for my being. If I truely had no "free will" why am I manipulated by forces that that choose to control me, no need for the control as I am working on a basic instinctual self preservation method, no thought required, 'auto-pilot' as someone mentioned earlier. If it is a question of the conscious mind out smarting the subconscious mind (no hand shake agreements) what is the point of conversation, committee in the head that cant communicate properly with each other; what is that all about?

reply to post by akushla99

if you can't remember this occasion...you can remove yourself from its unforeseen consequences,

Not true, there are several methods to reprogram your subconscious in which you don't have to consciously remember that prime memory that has caused you to adapt your behavior for the rest of your life.