When Your Boss Steals Your Wages: The Invisible Epidemic That’s Sweeping America‏

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by ItsEvolutionBaby

 

You're right on the money, OP. Too tired to post any relevant links, but yes its part of the attack on workers. All handed out in various ways. Should be obvious by now.

So improving productivity is an attack on workers???

Wait until the Obamacare taxes hit businesses this year! You may be begging for that job you complain about today.

Some businesses are already reducing their workers hours from a 40 hour week to a 30 hour week just so they don't qualify for Obamacare.

What did they Obamacare supporters think would happen? That companies would really gleefully hand over 20% of their earnings?

Well, I have heard of companies not paying in the employees Social Security and sometimes not their taxes that were collected. The government wasn't even punishing some of these Big employers.

An employer can lower your wage any time he wants, both permanently or temporarily, it is only good faith of the employer that keeps it steady. that is if there is no union to protect you. They have to pay you for the hours you work though....as long as they can be verified and were approved. People were getting ripped off before the unions came in all over the place. People think unions are a pain but they don't understand that the government does little for people about wage guarantees. You have an option if you don't like the pay cut, either quit or work. If you quit you can't easily collect unemployment if the company says your job is available at the lower wage. you have to take work on unemployment, even if it was a lot less than you were getting before. Unions were good but some people misused the unions and small companies can't give all the benefits and high wages and still compete.

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
I'm a teacher, and we have been told for years that we should just be "thankful you have a job." All while being furloughed and being asked to do more and more for less pay. Most teachers now work late into the evening and on weekends just to keep up.

How much of your paycheck goes to union dues and how much of it goes to fund the bill for policies the union supported politcians signed into law?

I worked a series of really lame jobs while I was putting myself through college.

I made sure that I got a degree in something that would have a good salary.

I've been well paid for a long time.

The lesson here is don't end up loading trucks for a living.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
I worked a series of really lame jobs while I was putting myself through college.

I made sure that I got a degree in something that would have a good salary.

I've been well paid for a long time.

The lesson here is don't end up loading trucks for a living.

I would add that another lesson or two would be:

1) Don't expect to be the new person on the job and get the same wages and benefits as those of us who have been there for decades. No company owes you anything. You dont "deserve" a paycheck, you have to actually earn your paycheck. Which leads to...
2) Being present at the work place is not the same as working. Why in the hell do you think you should be getting paid for not doing anything? A company pays you for your effort - NOT your presence.

Originally posted by stirling
Maybe you have a decent job phage.
Countless other people are getting screwed by being hired part time instead of full time. they merely hire twice the staff they need and screw the workers for their full time benefits.
Sometimes i wonder for all your knowledgeable pronouncements if your head is really screwed on straight.
The gains that the unions have won over the decades have all mostly been clawed back in innovative ways by the greedy companies.

Maybe if the unions stayed out of politics and instead focused only on their members and the employer of said members that wouldn't be the case. The unions have destroyed themselves by turning into corrupt political action machines. The vast majority of labor unions, if not all of them, have political views polar opposite of the majority of their members. The only reason Unions still exist is because not every state is a "right to work" state. The only way unions retain any power or influence these days is because of forced unionization.

A company will only pay the market value of the labor they need. Unloading a truck takes no skill whatsoever, and I know because I have done it many times, so the employee that unloads the truck isn't valued because they can be replaced tomorrow.

If big government would leave private sector business alone then companies wouldn't need to scale back their employee's hours. For example... Obamacare.

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Your experience with a mom and pop is not indicative of most corporate structures.

I understand that.

I'm talking about capitalism as a whole.

While I get the criticism....I would love to hear an alternative that is workable. As yet, there is hardly any better system out there. All others, that I am aware of, have tried and failed.

Capitalism is basically like this: if you are smart enough to do the things needed to secure your resume, you usually fare pretty well. If not, your fare less well.

I didn't go to college. I am still a CFO of a corporation. You don't have to have a degree. There is no "club". And I have a balance of work/home (I am my sons closest confidant). I have worked smart mostly, hard a little, and lucky quite a bit. But will absolutely refuse to believe that people with the intellect to "make it" just flat out lack the opportunity. I have made my own opportunities every step of the way (having never left this small town of 30k people and still gotten where I am at). It is just all about working smart.

Although currently I am working harder than smarter...that should end soon enough (once the systems are built).

Capitalism is just an economic system. Figure out how to make it work for you. That should sweeten those sour grapes a little.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


I think that it's important for our younger readers to realize that life isn't going to be handed to them just because they get a job at the local factory.

You need to have skills that will earn you a good wage. Your skills need to be portable. If your trade or job starts to suck in the local economy, you may need to relocate.

Earning a living is becoming more challenging. FInding a good job is getting harder and harder and there is no guarantee that the good job you have today will be around in a decade.

So get some skills and live frugally.

This is an old Soviet technique that was played on the workforce of land like the USSR, according to stories from my parents. Payment per each instead of per hour looks fair until the boss raises the demand while the price per each stays the same, and threatens to fire employees if the don't make more tomorrow than they did today. Gradually the job becomes tight like slavery. Then add the government demanding work participation to demonstrate allegiance to a movement for the economy, maybe strange taxes, and you have a labor camp. It is an administrative problem with the intent of undercutting employees, which usually means the company is not looking for profit over the long term with quality products. It is a rut because then only desperate lower quality employees will work there and that lowers the quality of the product and employee talent pool. That affects the bottom line of the region.

So what am I saying? If that method of payment for work is spreading in the USA there will be surface improvements while the core of good labor rots out, potentially leading to the collapse of he country. Sucks.

Originally posted by DarKPenguiN

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
The fact you mention truck unloading makes it a super sore spot in terms of how this is done in the world of freight. I cannot count the number of times I paid anywhere from $80 for a couple pallets to as much as $300 for a frozen load ...JUST for the "kind generosity" of the customer who ordered the freight my truck brought to get it OFF my truck and into their warehouse.

Once upon a time, a driver could pick up guys out front and drive in to have them unload. Those guys actually GOT the $100-$150 that it was back then. Then...they moved inside the fence as contractors. I imagine the pay dropped starting about that time for them. Oh, then even places like Walmart decided it was cool to charge the truck to unload what THEY ordered ..and I KNOW their people weren't getting diddly squat compared to the money being paid 100% and solely for the service of unloading.

BTW... That $80-$300 paid for what might be 15 minutes or it might be a few hours....and figure that one for what the guys doing the work should have seen in their own pockets. Heck, once upon a time, they DID. Now? You're right. They get pennies on dollars while the truckers get shafted ..or the companies do, and just add it to the freight bill ...which works back to the receiver eventually, right into the price on your store shelf.

Yeah, my buddy is a lumper- His company charges up to $300 to unload (using 2 Lumpers) and pays the lumpers $10/hour.
ADD- Something I saw in kentucky (and never since) was that there would be 2 Mcdonalds (or Pizza Huts or whatever) in a City- They would work someone 39 hours at one and have them punch out and go to the other- Work 10 hours (for example) at the second location. Then they would be paid by 2 checks, one for 39 hours and one for 10 hours- No overtime.

This was not voluntary or optional and was rampant. Since moving to Michigan I see the opposite- NOW what the fast Food places are doing (here anyhow) is keeping everyone hours at 26/week but doing it in such a shady way that the entire week is ruined- For example, scheduling someone to Open and work for 2 hours then go home. Punch back in during the lunch rush and go home. Punch in during the dinner rush and then go home. Literally scheduling to make someone work 2 tiny shifts in a day spread out over a ton of hours.

-And since there isnt anything here- People are doing it and fighting for the chance.

edit on 2-5-2013 by DarKPenguiN because: (no reason given)

I saw that in Michigan back in the late 70's. I worked as a shift manager at a 24-hour restaurant and the manager wanted us to clock people in and out based on customer load (actually corporate wanted that). For a cook who lives 30 miles away, it wasn't even worth the gas in the car to come in for 2 hours. I refused to do it. If I had a cook at all on my shift, he'd work all shift and if it was slow I'd cook myself (along with washing dishes and cleaning tables). The corporate owner sold the chain to some Japanese investment firm. They came out with even more austere measures, like counting the french fries that went on the plate, which I also refused to do. I quit. Shortly afterward the firm went down the tube (thank goodness).

Nothing to do with trucks but where I work, last week a notice went around that in order to cut health care costs due to Obamacare all full time employees would be dropped from 40 hours to 29 hours. All part time employees would have their hours cut in half. At this point I should mention that full time employees got the states Cadillac health care plan, it was the best one available in Ohio. Earlier this week a new cost cutting measure was announced, they need to reduce payroll by 15% and rather than give everyone a paycut (they've done a 5% paycut every 6 months for the past 2 years) they're going to have everyone secretly rebid on what they're willing to work for. They'll then base who they keep employed based on how much money each employee wants.

It's the new American Way.

My last boss docked me an hour and a half for HIS being late. If he was 10 minutes late he'd dock me for the whole half hour.

The one before him still owes me my last days wages. I took him to the labor board, but all they will do is ask him nicely to pay me. He has already refused. He will not pay me. And he is lucky my wife forced me to let it go because he was right close to a visit from a few friends who were more than happy to collect my money from him in either cash, merchandise or blood. But she made me let it go. I am still pretty pissed off about it. I want my $100. I earned it, it's mine, he has no right to keep it, I need it, he doesn't.

Americans are being forced into depending on the government. That's the way they want it. You will depend upon them so you will have to go along when a new world order of sorts offers to rescue us all.

Either Americans will continue stupidly working 80 hours for paper bills that are worth less and less (real rich people keep gold)… or they will realize that getting off the system is possible. You can build a tiny shed house, put it in the woods and grow all your own food for free. You don't need money. You can even trade in the stuff you got to buy a better house in the woods, solar panels… you can live free without a job, working and living off the land.

heres how it works

before raygun, taxes were over 50% for those on the top. they had a choice, take the money and give most of it to the gov, or reinvest it in the company by giving higher wages, retirement, training progs, etc.

raygun dropped the tax rate to less than 30%, so the top just started to take the money and running.
since raygun, if minimum wage and ceo wage had remained parallel, minimum wage would be over $30 an hour.

right now, corps are making record profits. it stays at the top in the form of pay and bonus. it doesnt trickle down to the worker.

the corps are making a population of slave wage workers. they keep unemployment high so you will take any job and be thankful for the slave wage.

of the 46 million on foodstamps, 32 million work. thats 3 out of 4 people that work, yet dont make enough to by food.

the forbes 400 top ceos average $12 million a year. if each one took just a million dollar pay cut, or 8.3% reduction, they could hire 200,000 people at $50k a year, and still make $11 million a year.

theres is only two ways out of this. workers need to unite and restart the unions, or congress needs to up the tax rate on corps.

one worker vs the corp results in the corp winning. united workers results in a win for the workers.

Originally posted by Aazadan
Nothing to do with trucks but where I work, last week a notice went around that in order to cut health care costs due to Obamacare all full time employees would be dropped from 40 hours to 29 hours. All part time employees would have their hours cut in half. At this point I should mention that full time employees got the states Cadillac health care plan, it was the best one available in Ohio. Earlier this week a new cost cutting measure was announced, they need to reduce payroll by 15% and rather than give everyone a paycut (they've done a 5% paycut every 6 months for the past 2 years) they're going to have everyone secretly rebid on what they're willing to work for. They'll then base who they keep employed based on how much money each employee wants.

It's the new American Way.

check and see if the ceo or board members are getting the pay cut, or the benefits cut.
bet they arent. if anything, i bet they have been getting raises, or fat bonuses.

I don't believe anyone is stealing my wages..

As Wildland firefighter, I earn a base wage and then a furter 6.80 per hour fireline allowance when at a fire. I get time and a half when working more than 8 hours and duble time when working longer than 12 hours or on weekends/public holidays.

Mind you, if the state gov came round and said "Sorry everyone is going onto a flat casual wage", I'd just walk away (unless the wage was a prema $50 pre hour). People who put their lives on the line professionally, will always need to be paied fairly, if not, then the SWHTF each summer..lol

reply to post by Ironclad


Going by the rest of the thread it sounds like we have it pretty good over here compared to the US. I get 1.5X pay for saturdays, 2X pay for sundays and all overtime.

It seems a worldwide problem now that there is no such thing as a "job for life" anymore going by what everyone else has said. Around here it seems to be the trend for a company or government to contract out maintenance or operations to another company or use labour hire companies to get casual workers they can hire and fire as they feel like. On one hand I can see how that would make good business sense because they only pay for what they think they need, on the other hand you have issues retaining experienced workers who may be able to do the job more effectively than someone who is just there for the day.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


When you're talking about unions, please keep in mind that there are more unions out there, smaller than the AFL-CIO, UAW, etc, that do not have ANY political influence whatsoever.

I was a member of a local union that barely had any power at all. It was a one of a kind experience that I would like to duplicate in the near future. I can't stand being non-union and don't miss the years I've spent at terrible, non-unionized jobs.

reply to post by randomtangentsrme


While I can agree that speed can affect compensation in a flat rate working environment, it does not indicate to be fair at all times. Sometimes, being good has its downfalls... as far as compensation is concerned.

I fixed BMW's in dealerships for over 10 years in a flat rate system. I quickly became one of the more knowledgeable and efficient technicians in the shop. When I got stuck with problem cars that nobody else could fix, I watched my produced hours decline over time, as I was no longer doing easy/in and out repairs.

I figured that I would just move on to a different shop, and not indicate to anyone what I know to alleviate those issues... but other issues came into fruition. The manufacturer cut times at a flat 20% across the board, on all repairs... due to poor economic conditions they said. They continued to cut times paid on individual repairs as they seen fit. And, certain repairs were required to fix the cars properly that mysteriously had no labor times to get paid for.

Throw into the mix that the shop I chose after the other was highly political, and I could have benefitted more if I were willing to keep a little poop on my nose.

It's safe to say that I no longer fix BMW's due to these issues. But, I think it would be fair on your part to realize that employers can pretty much 'make or break' an employees success in a flat rate system if they wish to increase and/or decrease their bottom line.

reply to post by randomtangentsrme


what country do you live in when you allow companies to pay in this way they will abuse the crap out of the workers do you not remember the old newspaper adds claiming make a 1000 bucks a week stuffing envelopes from home what they didn't tell you was you had to put hundereds of evelopes to get even 200 dollars. its why we the laborers demanded hourly wage in first place.