5-year-old Kentucky boy fatally shoots 2-year-old sister with gift rifle

Originally posted by seabag
[

That might be great training for a noobie but I certainly don’t need it nor do I think the federal government is responsible for teaching us how to be responsible.

There are a million things we could do to save the life of children. Let’s start with a BIG ONE and make abortion illegal! That would save hundreds of thousands of children’s lives.

Ex militray you most likley dont. But as for noobs hell why not? But I agree it should'nt be fedral. Should be done state by state.

As for abortion? well that another topic. This is how to save kids on THIS issue.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Yes....Straw Purchases and gun show, no doc. no background check cash and carry...

Next...as ugly as it is and sensitive to the pro-gun crowd..is Federally Liscensed Firearm Dealers selling inventory out the back door.

•Corrupt federally licensed gun dealers: Federally licensed gun dealers send more guns to the criminal market than any other single source. Nearly 60% of the guns used in crime are traced back to a small number—just 1.2%—of crooked gun dealers. Corrupt dealers frequently have high numbers of missing guns, in many cases because they’re selling guns “off the books” to private sellers and criminals. In 2005, the ATF examined 3,083 gun dealers and found 12,274 “missing” firearms.

gunvictimsaction.org...

ATF has found that FFLs who violate federal laws are a major source of trafficked firearms. In June of 2000, ATF issued a comprehensive report of firearms trafficking in this country. That report analyzed 1,530 trafficking investigations during the period July 1996 through December 1998, involving more than 84,000 diverted firearms.31 ATF found that FFLs were associated with the largest number of trafficked guns – over 40,000 – and concluded that “FFLs’ access to large numbers of firearms makes them a particular threat to public safety when they fail to comply with the law.”32 Random inspections by ATF have uncovered that a large percentage of FFLs do violate federal law and that this percentage is growing.

smartgunlaws.org...

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Raist

 

It pisses me off that kids die because their parents are too stupid to care, or to busy doing their own thing to care. Be an adult and show some responsibility. People like these parents piss me off almost more than anything else.

That is really frustrating but what I find amusing is that the majority of the gun grabbers are quick to denounce these parents (rightfully so) yet they have virtually nothing to say about the Muslim men who commit "Honor Killings" and intentionally kill their wives or children. Why the silence on that issue? Could it be because that issue won’t further the US anti-gun agenda??

We already have laws against murder yet honor killings happen. Maybe we should ban Muslims? It stands to reason that the fewer Muslims we have the fewer honor killings will occur. Is anybody on board?? I'm using the gun grabber's logic so it should appeal to them.

edit on 3-5-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

You really cant read can you? I have not seen many gun grabbers.

Yes I have seen alot in favour of enforceing safe storage and training. But that not "gun grabbing" that just helping to encourage safe useage!

Originally posted by seabag
yet they have virtually nothing to say about the Muslim men who commit [url=http://en.wikipedia.orgwiki/Honor_killing_in_the_United_States]

Yeah...maybe that cause that not what this thread is about! Start another thread and I will have some strong view on it!

reply to post by Indigo5


Back in 2003-2004 I went to a gun show and filled out a background check for my buy. The guy called it in over his cell phone right there just as the gun shops do now. That might be a rare thing but it did happen.

As for gun shops coming up with missing guns and selling them out the backdoor, they should be at risk of loosing their license for missing guns. If they cannot keep proper paperwork they should not be selling firearms.


There are also laws in place for buying a firearm for someone who cannot buy one. It is a felony to buy a firearm for someone who cannot already buy one themselves.
articles.baltimoresun.com...

What we need is to get tougher and start enforcing the laws we have, not add more laws.


Raist

reply to post by Indigo5


The democrats shot themselves in the foot by trying to pass a new assault weapons ban that was apparently much stronger than the past. There was zero reason for it! Of course hindsight is 20-20, but come on they should have known better.

Then we see the severe shortage of ammunition created by DHS, the lockdown of boston, etc. Can anyone tell me with a straight face "move along now, nothing to see here?" I am no weapons fanatic but I call it like I see it. I don't trust the democrats or republicans for beans.

As for the NRA president saying one thing yesterday, and tomorrow changing his mind, I guess that speaks for itself.

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Back in 2003-2004 I went to a gun show and filled out a background check for my buy. The guy called it in over his cell phone right there just as the gun shops do now. That might be a rare thing but it did happen.

At gun shows there are the Liscensed vendors and there are private sales. In private sales you are supposed to show a drivers liscense...no documentation...cash and carry. In theorey they are not supposed to sell to anyone "that they suspect could not pass a background check"....but that is a silly and unenforcable requirement.

Originally posted by Raist
As for gun shops coming up with missing guns and selling them out the backdoor, they should be at risk of loosing their license for missing guns. If they cannot keep proper paperwork they should not be selling firearms.

Right and the ATF enforcement division for overseeing FFL Dealers has been gutted. they have less agents assigned than they did in 1975 and a slew of laws that actually prohibit them from checking inventories more than once a year ...etc. etc. Just a gutted mechanism by the NRA Lobby via paid for Pols.

Originally posted by Raist
There are also laws in place for buying a firearm for someone who cannot buy one. It is a felony to buy a firearm for someone who cannot already buy one themselves.

Sure, but again we need enforcement....See here for a Minnesota Straw purchaser who finally didin't get cracked down on until one of his shot-guns was used in a drive by.

Illegal gun market thrives in Minnesota; prosecution rare, penalties light

His defense hinged on the federal law’s definition of an arms dealer. Federal law allows private citizens to sell their personal guns without conducting background checks, but there’s no stated limit to the number of guns that person may sell before they’re considered an arms dealer.

So if as a "private seller" you aren't obligated to run background checks...and there is no limit on how many guns you can re-sell...at what point can they call you a guns trafficker?

This guy was buying 30-60 guns at a time and re-selling them out of a duffel bag. Nothing outright illegal about that...and that is wrong...

Originally posted by Raist

What we need is to get tougher and start enforcing the laws we have, not add more laws.

Raist

The Manchin-Toomey plan would have expanded background checks to include private sales at gun shows and all Internet sales, while continuing to exempt most sales between family members and friends.

www.cnn.com...

When people start attacking Ron Paul viciously, then there is something wrong with this country and the media. Enough said!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by Indigo5

 

The democrats shot themselves in the foot by trying to pass a new assault weapons ban that was apparently much stronger than the past. There was zero reason for it! Of course hindsight is 20-20, but come on they should have known better.

That was up there with the GOP trying to repeal Obamacare...pandering to minority base..And it wasn't "Democrats"...Democrats voted against it as well...Idealogical, never going to happen BS.

That has nothing to do with the expanded background checks...Manchin-Toomey that the GOP voted down at the NRA's behest.

reply to post by Indigo5


Okay, all of that is fine and good. I agree more needs to be done to enforce current laws. I support stronger background checks, but in reality they will not help it other institutions are not doing their job. I personally want to see people get training in firearms even if they do not plan to use or carry one. I had a hunter safety course at the age of 8-9 and I also took a CCW course. The training is great, any firearms training that one can get should be taken. Every firearm should be treated as if it were loaded, even if you think they are not.

(I am not going after you for this but I have seen it in the thread)

What does any of that have to do with this case. Nothing law wise would have prevented this. Even with laws saying they needed a gun safe these stupid parents would have left a loaded gun in the corner. Even if they had a gun safe these parents would have left a loaded gun in the corner. These parents are the epitome of stupid. I really think the discussion that should be taking place and is being missed is firearms training and safe storage of firearms. As well as whether or not the parents should be charged for their crimes against their children (I believe they should be).

I have said it many times in this thread (I am sure you read the posts), my son (he is 6) uses the same rifle. The difference is being a responsible adult and doing your job as a parent. I store the gun in a nonfunctional manner.

I think firearms have their place in society still for hunting, target shooting, and protection from criminals. I also think that if we enforced the laws we have we could get by without more laws being added to the books. The sad truth is and it is because of the freedom we have is that you cannot prosecute someone until after they have broken the laws. Meaning that no matter what laws we have you will never stop this sort of thing. It is about freedom and it does come at a cost. Stupid people and people looking to do bad things will always be the ones breaking the laws.

Raist

reply to post by Raist

Don't get me wrong I am against honor killings as well. Sadly we cannot just point to Muslims for that though.

I agree…

…Just as we can’t point to guns for all murders.

**If there were no guns in US there would be less murders = FACT

**If there were no Muslims in US there would be less honor killings = FACT

Delete

reply to post by seabag


I t truly saddens my heart to fully agree with you. I do come from a time when family came first.

Today I go to one of the biggest Pentecostal funerals the bible belt has ever seen. Our family will gather together, some coming from every part of the US to join in this day of respect, yes I said the old fashioned word respect, for a great man who has been an integral part of my families history for at least 6 generations.

Although we are not related, he was part of all of the births, deaths, marriages for over 70 years.

This represents the true American Family. We cared about each other deeply, we shared in everything together, and we stand by each other to this day.

edit to say, that out of the thousands who will attend todays services and sit down meal together, every one of the families owns guns, and over 7 generations not a single child has ever been harmed by one. Not a single person has tried to kill people out of craziness with one, and that was because of our honest American upbringing, not an out of control government telling us to.

reply to post by seabag


Here is one you better watch fast, I got this in email by family today, it is alarming to say the least.

DHS Whistleblower Censored from 60 minutes #N3


Seems like I saw this on ats a while back but could not find it in our search engine.

Originally posted by jrod
The real problem is the parents clearly did not practice gun safety, not an evil gun.

The real problem is, that every f...ing idiot in your country can buy a gun. This boy was definitely too young to get a gun. The carelessness of his parents and the government, which are allowing everybody a gun without rules resulted in a death of a human.

In my country, you can only buy a gun if you can proove you have a need for it. And guess what, only less than 0.1 % of the population owns one, because there is no really need for guns.

reply to post by Spartanian






Guns themselves, even automatics ones are common in third world countries and they like to shoot them at weddings and other ceremonies.

If you want my honest opinion gun laws are too strict in europe and that is not good.

reply to post by Spartanian


No, the problem as has been mentioned more than once is not the gun but the parents.

I have the same rifle, my son is 6 and he has shot it and does a great job. He knows more about gun safety than most adults. Since I have firearms I want him to understand their danger (just like a hot stove or light sockets) so that he does not hurt himself or others.

I went over the rifle in question at the bottom of page 7, another poster went over it as well and I reposted it a page or so back. The rifle is very safe as long as you are not storing it loaded and cocked in the corner. It is a single shot bolt action .22, we are not talking about a high powered rifle with a high capacity magazine. This is one of the simplest guns you can own and much like other single shot bolt action .22 rifles that can be found in many places throughout the world.

Can it kill? Sure it can. Is it something to fear? Certainly not.

Unlike you, most of us do not want the government telling us what we can and cannot have. What is safe for us to own and what is not. I can take care of myself without the government, I do not need them to babysit me and protect me from myself.

The problem is stupid people. They are all over, I have seen plenty here on ATS as well. Stupid people are what brought this on. Stupid, unsafe, and uncaring people. If they cared for their kids they would not have had the rifle loaded and cocked in the corner. If they cared for their kids they would have not been negligent and supervised the gun when handled. If they cared this would never have happened as the gun would have been stored in a nonfunctioning manner.

This happened because of stupid people, not because of guns and who can buy them. You cannot fix stupid people, they are everywhere.

You stay out of my home and leave me be on what I choose to own and I'll leave you be on the same.

Raist

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
[

If you want my honest opinion gun laws are too strict in europe and that is not good.

But it what we want and what WE are happy with.

And quite frankly at the moment we seem to have more freedom and a higher standard of living in "most" parts of europe than in the USA. In the UK the police dont go locking down cities and raiding houses without warrents.


As I have said before you yanks can have your stupid gun, Just dont force them on the rest of the civilised world. Dont like it? Well stay in the USA and keep out of Europe and I will keep out of liveing in the USA, that way we are all happy.

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
[

If you want my honest opinion gun laws are too strict in europe and that is not good.

But it what we want and what WE are happy with.

And quite frankly at the moment we seem to have more freedom and a higher standard of living in "most" parts of europe than in the USA. In the UK the police dont go locking down cities and raiding houses without warrents.


As I have said before you yanks can have your stupid gun, Just dont force them on the rest of the civilised world. Dont like it? Well stay in the USA and keep out of Europe and I will keep out of liveing in the USA, that way we are all happy.

edit on 4-5-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

No reason to be so defensive friend. I was trying to point out that america is not the only country with loose gun laws. There are others as well. Maybe it is a religious thing afterall, both diehard christians and diehard muslims LOVE their guns.

In europe they allow shotguns as well as .22lr rifles I believe. Perhaps you think there is a total ban but that is not the case. It is pistols that are heavily regulated.

This man loved guns too, but for a different reason I guess.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
[

If you want my honest opinion gun laws are too strict in europe and that is not good.

But it what we want and what WE are happy with.

And quite frankly at the moment we seem to have more freedom and a higher standard of living in "most" parts of europe than in the USA. In the UK the police dont go locking down cities and raiding houses without warrents.


As I have said before you yanks can have your stupid gun, Just dont force them on the rest of the civilised world. Dont like it? Well stay in the USA and keep out of Europe and I will keep out of liveing in the USA, that way we are all happy.

edit on 4-5-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

No reason to be so defensive friend. I was trying to point out that america is not the only country with loose gun laws. There are others as well. Maybe it is a religious thing afterall, both diehard christians and diehard muslims LOVE their guns.

In europe they allow shotguns as well as .22lr rifles I believe. Perhaps you think there is a total ban but that is not the case. It is pistols that are heavily regulated.

I apoligise if i came off as rude.

Yeah in theuk you can have guns if you can demonstrate that you have a legal use for one , have no criminal record and show you can store it correctly. It works well for the uk.

That said our system would not work in the usa anymore than it would afganistan because of the gun culture.