5-year-old Kentucky boy fatally shoots 2-year-old sister with gift rifle

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5

 

You might feel differently if it was your child getting shot by the nieghbor boy....

Just as you might be feeling really sad if your child was killed by a drunk driver (your drunk neighbor, I guess).

that is probably why I wrote this....

I could care less how you die.

If I was talking about my children, I wouldn't have specified YOU.

edit on 3-5-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

Think careful on this butch...How is how I die relevant to the subject at all?

And on the drunk driver/4 year old neighbor playing with dad's gun...either of them resulting in my child's death...somewhere after the breakdown and rage, I imagine somewhere in my brain enough rational thought would be left to ask...what could have been done to avoid it?

Maybe the drunk driver had been caught drinking and driving twice before and let go?

Maybe I don't live in a state that locks up repeated drunk drivers? Or takes away thier liscense?

Or maybe if that nieghbor was required to have a gun safe and not let the kids play with it? I could have called the cops the week before when his kid was running arround the yard with the rifle? and thier would have been a fine to discourage the dipsh*& from letting his kid play with the gun. Or the gun would have been confiscated until he could show he had a safe way to store it with kids in the house?

On and on those things would ramble through my mind one after another.

But hey...if it was you, you would just say..."Kids die"...right? Just the price of your constitutional freedoms to let dip*&ts own guns.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5

 

And...same old logic...so we all die...why bother?

No.
It is why steal my liberty for your comfort?

WTF Does not letting criminals or the near retarded own guns have to do with my comfort.

Dead kids ...accidental or otherwise ...isn't about comfort.

reply to post by Indigo5


too many laws and too little enforcement. sometimes quality is better than quantity...

reply to post by Indigo5


Why am I not surprised you’re peddling this crap?

Your chart and stats are very misleading. It must be noted that those figures include accidental shootings, suicides, even acts of self-defense, as well as crimes. It’s also important to note that the vast majority of criminal murders (homicides) involve illegally obtained firearms!!! No law will ever keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

…stricter gun control laws alone may not solve these states’ gun violence problems. All but one state on this list had property crime rates in 2011 that were in the top half of all states. Seven of the states on this list are among the top 10 in terms of property crime, including all the top four states. The high rates of property crimes, which generally do not involve the use of firearms, indicate a more complex crime problem in these states.

link

It has less to do with gun laws and more to do with social and economic issues. The more affluent the area is the less crime. The more impoverished the area is the more crime.

It's a people problem.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I will agree with this.

There is no law that would have kept this from happening. Even if there were laws saying he needed a gun safe, it would not be enforceable until after the fact. Regardless of laws these moron of parents would have left a loaded gun leaning in the corner. Laws do not fix stupid.

The rage I feel about these parents is beyond words. It pisses me off that kids die because their parents are too stupid to care, or to busy doing their own thing to care. Be an adult and show some responsibility. People like these parents piss me off almost more than anything else.

Raist

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by Indigo5

 

too many laws and too little enforcement. sometimes quality is better than quantity...

Quality is always better than quantity.

And quantity often erodes quality.

What we have for gun laws...thanks to the NRA...are a plethora of laws that do nothing...and NO laws that do something.

The tinniest little effen effort to straighten that out, expanding and strenfthening background checks...something supported by 90% of Americans...was shot down under threat of the NRA...The same MFers and the SAME MAN that declared this a few years back....



BS...and BS that helps criminals for profit and costs lives...

reply to post by Indigo5


No amount of laws would have prevented this though. The only way any law like that (having to own a gun safe) is enforceable is after the fact. Besides even if they did own a safe these parents are too stupid to have used it. This could have been prevented even without a gun safe. The rifle should not have been loaded and cocked sitting in the corner. It should have been kept in a nonfunctioning manner.

Laws do not fix stupid, these parents are stupid. They are just as stupid as the guy who lost his life savings on a carnival game. Stupid people do stupid things and an unfortunate side affect is that sometimes people die because of it.

These parents already broke laws though. They endangered their children and were negligent and that caused a death. They could be charged with negligent manslaughter and child endangerment.

Raist

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I will agree with this.

There is no law that would have kept this from happening. Even if there were laws saying he needed a gun safe, it would not be enforceable until after the fact. Regardless of laws these moron of parents would have left a loaded gun leaning in the corner. Laws do not fix stupid.

The rage I feel about these parents is beyond words. It pisses me off that kids die because their parents are too stupid to care, or to busy doing their own thing to care. Be an adult and show some responsibility. People like these parents piss me off almost more than anything else.

Raist

Don't most guns come with a gun lock? Even the cheap saturday night pistols on sale for $150 have it but some parents can't be bothered. Still gun safes are a good idea. To be honest I have changed my perspective about gun control over the last 6 months quite a bit. Not that I feared them because I have been raised with them, but its WHERE do we draw a line and say this is acceptable and this is not. I don't know. I am not even an expert in the matter.

Yes the parents should be prosecuted for criminal negligence.

reply to post by Raist

It pisses me off that kids die because their parents are too stupid to care, or to busy doing their own thing to care. Be an adult and show some responsibility. People like these parents piss me off almost more than anything else.

That is really frustrating but what I find amusing is that the majority of the gun grabbers are quick to denounce these parents (rightfully so) yet they have virtually nothing to say about the Muslim men who commit "Honor Killings" and intentionally kill their wives or children. Why the silence on that issue? Could it be because that issue won’t further the US anti-gun agenda??

We already have laws against murder yet honor killings happen. Maybe we should ban Muslims? It stands to reason that the fewer Muslims we have the fewer honor killings will occur. Is anybody on board?? I'm using the gun grabber's logic so it should appeal to them.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Why am I not surprised you’re peddling this crap?

Couldn't give crap what suprises you...I imagine the simplest things suprise you.

Originally posted by seabag
Your chart and stats are very misleading. It must be noted that those figures include accidental shootings, suicides, even acts of self-defense, as well as crimes. It’s also important to note that the vast majority of criminal murders (homicides) involve illegally obtained firearms!!! No law will ever keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

OK...put your big boy thinking cap on...."illegally obtained firearms"...hmmm...there isn't a big industry for illegally manufactured firearms...those "illegal guns", each and every one of them began life as a "legally purchased" gun...

But nah...let's not close the cash and carry loop-hole at gun shows. Let's not worry about background checks.

So the FBI et al. tracks stolen guns...they account for less than 10% of crime guns...90% of crime guns were purchased from folks that bought the gun legally somewhere up the distribution chain.

"No Law will ever keep guns out of the hands of criminals"
That is Wayne Lapierre BSing..not a grown man thinking.

reply to post by Indigo5

So the FBI et al. tracks stolen guns...they account for less than 10% of crime guns...90% of crime guns were purchased from folks that bought the gun legally somewhere up the distribution chain.

That’s not true.

Most stolen guns are never recorded as 'stolen' because the irresponsible owners failed to document the serial numbers. How can police identify the stolen gun without a serial number?? Maybe we should mandate a class for that, too??

Besides, if all you care about is a safety class, how in the hell is that going to reduce gun violence.

Look, if you’re so scared of your neighbor maybe you should move to a country you feel safer in; maybe Japan?? In America we have guns and that will never change. Get over it…and stop peddling your liberal progressive think-tank stats.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Raist

 

It pisses me off that kids die because their parents are too stupid to care, or to busy doing their own thing to care. Be an adult and show some responsibility. People like these parents piss me off almost more than anything else.

That is really frustrating but what I find amusing is that the majority of the gun grabbers are quick to denounce these parents (rightfully so) yet they have virtually nothing to say about the Muslim men who commit "Honor Killings" and intentionally kill their wives or children. Why the silence on that issue? Could it be because that issue won’t further the US anti-gun agenda??

We already have laws against murder yet honor killings happen. Maybe we should ban Muslims? It stands to reason that the fewer Muslims we have the fewer honor killings will occur. Is anybody on board?? I'm using the gun grabber's logic so it should appeal to them.

edit on 3-5-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

Honestly...WTF is wrong with you?

Psst...Hey...Muslim Honor Killings is not the topic...Nor is your earlier post about Abortion...

Derail and bait much?

reply to post by Indigo5

Honestly...WTF is wrong with you?

Psst...Hey...Muslim Honor Killings is not the topic...Nor is your earlier post about Abortion...

Derail and bait much?

Not derailing at all. I made a valid comparison. I'm sorry you can't follow along.

Stop playing MOD…

reply to post by Indigo5


Yep the straw purchase thing is a big deal in my opinion. Some people buy in bulk from states with relaxed laws and pretend to be collectors only so they can re-sell them in liberal strongholds with tough gun laws thus creating a situation of criminals having guns and law-abiding citizens being disarmed.

In NJ and Illinois getting a CCW permit is next to impossible. Usually ex-cops, people who transfer money frequently, big business owners, and people who otherwise PROVE their life is in jeopardy. I know several small business owners that got robbed in early morning hours...they couldn't prove "need".

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Indigo5

 

So the FBI et al. tracks stolen guns...they account for less than 10% of crime guns...90% of crime guns were purchased from folks that bought the gun legally somewhere up the distribution chain.

That’s not true.

Rather than just say sh^% they way a child does, perhaps read and research a little...or is knowledge all communist to you?

"Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.


In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list.

How Criminals Get Guns
www.pbs.org...

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


This is an actual lock. All other guns I have or have used at best have a safety. This is a button lock that requires a key. Look at the bottom of page 7 and see the post I made going over the rifle in question.

Not only should the lock have been used but the bolt action could be taken out in a second, no tools needed.

Raist

reply to post by seabag



Don't get me wrong I am against honor killings as well. Sadly we cannot just point to Muslims for that though. There have been parents of other religions that have killed their kids for just as stupid of reasons. Do not take that as I am against religion as I am not. I just do not think we can denounce one group for that as other have committed acts as well.


These parents piss me off though because it would have been so simple to push the button lock on the rifle or to remove the bolt action. Less than a second could have kept this from happening.

Raist

Originally posted by butcherguy


Ahhh, so it is too late, so the Constitution is no longer valid?

I would like to paraphrase what you said: 'We are already under a tyrannical government.... (here's the part that gets me)

'

I fail to see what is funny.

Well its only valid if you enforce it. And I didnt see you guys enforceing it when the patriot act was brought it.....nor do I see anyone enforceing there rights when the TSA practicaly rape them....and I never saw anyone stand up for there rights when your militrised police forced there ways into homes in boston without warrents or cause.

So far the constitution is just a piece of uselss paper


As for laughing well 1) its not my country or constitution and 2) What can I do but laugh ? It crap but im powerless to do anything. Your not though......

Originally posted by Raist
So that we can have a mature, logical, and intelligent conversation I will post photos of the same model of rifle. From this you will be able to understand the rifle and how it works. You will be able to see the locking mechanism, the bolt action, and that it is a single shot, as well as how to pull the firing pin back and make it ready for use. The only thing I do not do is load it. Explanations are just above each photo. I show that there are two ways to lock the rifle. In both ways the rifle cannot be used as the bolt action does not fall into place ne the firing pin cannot be set.


Here is the locking "button" below the bolt action (as well as the key needed to unlock it). At this point the bolt action is unlocked.

Here is a side view of the same unlocked button.

Here is a side view of the locking button pushed in and locked. At this point the gun is not useable accept as a fancy club. It requires a key to make the rifle operational.

Here is a view from inside where the bolt action sits. Here you can see the safety button is pushed up and locked. The gun cannot be used like this.

Here is as far as the bolt action can go with the locking button locked in position and with the bolt action locked fully open. No amount of force can get the bolt action to go forward as the lock button is in the way.

Here is the second way to lock the rifle. This is how I store it so that nothing can be put into the barrel from the breach side. At this point of lock the bolt action will not move. It is set in place totally. The firing pin cannot be set and the gun is not useable at this point.

In this photo my fingers are on the firing pin. This needs to be pulled back and set before the rifle can be shot. No amount of pulling the trigger without this being pulled back with fire the gun.

And finally here is a photo of the firing pin in the set position (note the rifle is not loaded as has been seen throughout the other photos, even though the rifle is not loaded the same precautions should always be taken).

To clear the firing pin after the photo I held the pin in one hand and pulled the trigger with the other while slowly letting the firing pin ease forward. All safety precautions were taken when taking these photos.

I hope this has educated a few at least.


Edit to add: Please forgive the photo quality, I am not a professional by any means.
Raist

edit on 5/1/13 by Raist because: Appologies for photo quality.

For those who might have missed it, from page 7.

Raist

reply to post by JuniorDisco

if there are limits to road speed then why do they make cars that can go several times faster than those limits?

on a side note there are all kinds of accidents and many thousands of young kids surrounded daily by guns with no accidents. if the situation was that bad you'd be hearing about this all the time. ever hear of kids being saved by guns who would've probably been killed without one?