5-year-old Kentucky boy fatally shoots 2-year-old sister with gift rifle

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

So southerns are reckless by nature? Is that what you are trying to imply? Sure some folks hate guns and will use any excuse to ban them, but a lot of folks(like me) say guns are ok provided children and incompetant people are denied access to them.

Kids can choke on toys, drink dangerous household cleaning detergents, play with a gun that was accidentally left loaded, etc. Good parenting is important but our fast food society is starting to make everyone irresponsible because everyone is overworked and overstressed.

Care to show where I said "southerns are reckless by nature?" ?

Please. Quote where I said that. Would LOVE to see where I said that.

I live in the south. South Carolina in fact is my home.

so please, yes, I want to see where I said that.

Originally posted by eriktheawful

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

So southerns are reckless by nature? Is that what you are trying to imply? Sure some folks hate guns and will use any excuse to ban them, but a lot of folks(like me) say guns are ok provided children and incompetant people are denied access to them.

Kids can choke on toys, drink dangerous household cleaning detergents, play with a gun that was accidentally left loaded, etc. Good parenting is important but our fast food society is starting to make everyone irresponsible because everyone is overworked and overstressed.

Care to show where I said "southerns are reckless by nature?" ?

Please. Quote where I said that. Would LOVE to see where I said that.

I live in the south. South Carolina in fact is my home.

so please, yes, I want to see where I said that.

Anyone that says children should be taught about guns at an early age is RECKLESS imo. No ifs, ands or buts!

Anyone that leaves guns outside of a safe or gun rack without a lock is RECKLESS imo. Again no ifs ands or butts!

Its not what you said, its what you implied...and others are IMPLYING that makes me feel sick.

Originally posted by seabag

What can be done to prevent it?? Stupidity happens!

Not sell them guns?

Who are you to decide who is “too stupid” to own a gun? It’s alarming how so many people feel superior and think they can impose their judgment on others. Where in the constitution is this “stupid” rule spelled out?

The constitution is just a bit of paper written a very long time ago. What is says isn't authoritative by definition.

But I agree that it's not up to me to decide. I would say on balance that if you allow your child to kill his sister with a gun you are probably the kind of person who shouldn't be allowed to buy one, but I admit that provides no firm basis for preventatively not selling guns.

I'm not suggesting I have the solution, by the way. I'm just asking those who advocate widespread gun ownership to face up to the reality of their beliefs and policy.

Obviously that's not true or we would have allowed ourselves to be neutered long ago like so many other countries. .

Not that this will happen anyway, but assuming in some far off alternative reality you have to actually fight the authorities or invaders with a proper army how will you shoot down their helicopters or stop their tanks? With difficulty I imagine. The days when a citizen militia armed with rifles was actually any use have gone the same way as the tricorn hat and slave ownership.

Chance of this occurring x effectiveness of guns vs modern arsenals = not good argument against dead kids.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by eriktheawful

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

So southerns are reckless by nature? Is that what you are trying to imply? Sure some folks hate guns and will use any excuse to ban them, but a lot of folks(like me) say guns are ok provided children and incompetant people are denied access to them.

Kids can choke on toys, drink dangerous household cleaning detergents, play with a gun that was accidentally left loaded, etc. Good parenting is important but our fast food society is starting to make everyone irresponsible because everyone is overworked and overstressed.

Care to show where I said "southerns are reckless by nature?" ?

Please. Quote where I said that. Would LOVE to see where I said that.

I live in the south. South Carolina in fact is my home.

so please, yes, I want to see where I said that.

Anyone that says children should be taught about guns at an early age is RECKLESS imo. No ifs, ands or buts!

Anyone that leaves guns outside of a safe or gun rack without a lock is RECKLESS imo. Again no ifs ands or butts!

Its not what you said, its what you implied...and others are IMPLYING that makes me feel sick.

edit on 2/5/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

What I said was: children that will be living where there are guns should be taught gun safety at an early age.

If that makes you sick, then it means you'd rather we hide things, and hope that they never find them or learn about them.

I'm so sorry that the idea of teaching safety to kids makes you sick. As a father of 6 and a grandfather of 2, it makes me sick to think that there are people like you walking the earth who are afraid to teach safety to our children.

Gun safety can be taught without a child once touching a firearm.

And if you didn't know that.........and how easy it is to teach safety..........then god help any children you might have.

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Its fine fo the kid to have a gun at that age, he just needs to be supervised and shown to respect a gun

No offense...but it is stupid thinking like this that gets kids killed. A 5 year old is not capable of "respecting" a lethal weapon the same way an adult does.

reply to post by JuniorDisco

Not sell them guns?

So we should give up our constitutional right and lay off thousands of people so that one stupid jackarse doesn’t leave guns unattended? What do you do with the 300,000,000 guns out there already??

The constitution is just a bit of paper written a very long time ago. What is says isn't authoritative by definition.

There you go, folks. The truth is out! Some people truly believe they have more wisdom than our founding fathers and they have no problems with sharting on the constitution.

Not that this will happen anyway, but assuming in some far off alternative reality you have to actually fight the authorities or invaders with a proper army how will you shoot down their helicopters or stop their tanks? With difficulty I imagine.

Would rocks and sling shots be a better alternative?

The days when a citizen militia armed with rifles was actually any use have gone the same way as the tricorn hat and slave ownership.

The SCOTUS has upheld a citizen’s right to keep and bear arms for self defense, recreation, etc. Why do you feel your ideas are superior everyone else’s?

reply to post by Indigo5

No offense...but it is stupid thinking like this that gets kids killed. A 5 year old is not capable of "respecting" a lethal weapon the same way an adult does.

I guess you missed the part where he said “supervised.”

The earlier you start the better IMO. I bet my 5 year old knows more about the golden rules of gun safety than most of the anti-gun nutters out there.

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

Originally posted by seabag

What can be done to prevent it?? Stupidity happens!

Not sell them guns?

Who are you to decide who is “too stupid” to own a gun? It’s alarming how so many people feel superior and think they can impose their judgment on others. Where in the constitution is this “stupid” rule spelled out?

The constitution is just a bit of paper written a very long time ago. What is says isn't authoritative by definition.

But I agree that it's not up to me to decide. I would say on balance that if you allow your child to kill his sister with a gun you are probably the kind of person who shouldn't be allowed to buy one, but I admit that provides no firm basis for preventatively not selling guns.

I'm not suggesting I have the solution, by the way. I'm just asking those who advocate widespread gun ownership to face up to the reality of their beliefs and policy.

Obviously that's not true or we would have allowed ourselves to be neutered long ago like so many other countries. .

Not that this will happen anyway, but assuming in some far off alternative reality you have to actually fight the authorities or invaders with a proper army how will you shoot down their helicopters or stop their tanks? With difficulty I imagine. The days when a citizen militia armed with rifles was actually any use have gone the same way as the tricorn hat and slave ownership.

Chance of this occurring x effectiveness of guns vs modern arsenals = not good argument against dead kids.

Love it when people don't actually pay attention to history:

Battle Of Athens, 1946

Polls for the county election opened August 1, 1946. About 200 armed deputies turned out to patrol the precincts—the normal complement of 15 deputies significantly augmented by reinforcements from other counties. A number of conflicts arose before the polls closed, the most serious of which was when a black man, Tom Gillespie, was assaulted by officers after casting his vote. Deputy C.M. Wise shot and wounded him in the back while he was trying escape from the officers. C.M. Wise was later sentenced to 1-3 years in prision, being the only person to face charges from the events of August 1-2, 1946.[7] As the polls closed, deputies seized ballot boxes and took them to the jail. Opposition veterans responded by arming themselves and marching there. Some of them had raided the National Guard Armory, obtaining arms and ammunition.[9] Estimates of the number of veterans besieging the jail vary from several hundred[9] to as high as 2,000.[7] When the men reached the jail, it was barricaded and manned by 55 deputies. The veterans demanded the ballot boxes but were refused. They then opened fire on the jail, initiating a battle that lasted several hours by some accounts,[7][9] considerably less by others.[10] In the end, the door of the jail was dynamited and breached. The barricaded deputies—some with injuries—surrendered, and the ballot boxes were recovered. During the fight at the jail, rioting had broken out in Athens, mainly targeting police cars.[7][9] This continued even after the ballot boxes were recovered, but subsided by morning.[10]

Doesn't the law require this? Is it up to the states or local authorities or what exactly?

Kids under 12 should NOT be taught about gun safety or guns at all. Period, that is my opinion and I am sticking to it. Kids don't drive cars or get drunk in bars either.

Darwin Awards all round!

I have no sympathy for this family at all, anyone stupid enought to let a child PLAY with a real gun are a waste of good oxygen in my opinion.....Give the boy some more ammo, hopefully he'll get his parents next time and do the gene-pool a real service!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


And the ignorant part of you is showing.

The gun that was used HAS a lock BUILT IN.



However it did no good, because the child was allowed to handle the weapon UNSUPERVISED.

Those gunlocks and gunsafes don't do a damn bit of good if the weapon is out, loaded and cocked. Which should never have happened.

However, it CAN happen. They CAN get left out. A 5 year old CAN get their hands on one, even if they are not suppose to.

So which is better? Teaching a 5 year old the dangers of having a weapon like that in their hands, so that they KNOW what it can do and the damage it can cause?

Or doing it YOUR way.....leave the child ignorant and thinking it's a toy? That' if they do happen to get a hold of a weapon that they have now NO understanding of, or have learned NO safety because of you and you "opinion" that they have NO idea what is going to happen if they pull the trigger?

Again.....god help your kids if they are ever out one day and do find a gun somewhere else.

reply to post by Indigo5


Totally agree with you, but the more i am reading into this type of thing the more i am realizing that America (not all, but enough) thinks this is "normal" for kiddies to play with guns. And don't say their not playing because they ARE. Ive also found out its the 4th kid accidental shooting in the space of a month ! wow. just wow.

Why not wait till they are a teenager? most kids are past the "playing pretend" stage by then, and lets be honest, they know right from wrong by that age as too. Does that not sound totally acceptable. but kids at 5 are BABIES.
Lock up the guns and tell your kids when there old enough they will be shown how to use a gun responsibly. Stop giving babies guns, its wrong !!!

Originally posted by eriktheawful
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Times might be different, yes.

But for many of us, where we live has not changed.

---------------------------------------------
For others in this thread...

I live quite far from civilization. I'm surrounded by woods. Wild animals of all kinds trek though my land. Many times I see them, sometimes just the prints they've left.

You can walk for acres around my land, and think you're the only human alive. Quite isolated.

It was like that for my father. My father's father. And his father before him.

And now it's the same for my son.

He doesn't step outside and walk down a block to some strip mall. He doesn't walk to school because it's located over 8 miles away.

We have pitbulls that are strays that belong to no one that come up here on the land. Growling, hackles raised. Which is the last thing they do before I put a round between their eyes and bury them. That's because animal control here is a single man in a pickup truck that could take hours to get to where you are.

So yes, times do change. However, and this I must stress to our friends across the "pond" that think "you americans, you're all alike. Always slobbering over your guns.", that we don't all as Americans live in some big city. We don't all live within walking distance of Times Square in NY. That the US while it does have mega cities, is mostly rural still. Wild lands, that still have some natural dangers in them.

Our country is not one big city that we all live in. It's a very large country with lots of land with a lot of things in and on them.
Of course Hollywood and TV hasn't done much to show this. If I'd never been to the US I would think that everyone lives in NY, LA, Chicago, MIami, etc, etc, etc.

But we all don't. Here's a picture of my "backyard"

There are things in here that can kill you, and rescue is not going to happen right away.

So for those of you that think we here in the US live in some big mega city, or that every square inch of our country is "tamed", you are sadly mistaken.

Guns are a part of our life. They are a tool that we use, and have used for literally centuries now. We all don't live in some apartment on 42 street, and we don't all live in the subburbs.

Try to get it in your heads that our country is not only diverse in the kinds of people that live here, but the very land we live on is that way too......and most of it is not cleared, developed parking lots.

edit on 2-5-2013 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)

This is why as a Brit I dont say you should give up your guns. Most your country is wilderness with wild animal. You need guns more than us brits. We are one of the most densly populated areas in the world. We cant have 70 million people running around with guns But in the USA I know most stated are still rural and you still have predators.

Originally posted by seeker1963

Try looking up the battle of Lexington Green...............

Thought I already said no one knows who shot first

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Laws or regs covering storage like that is nice and all but without 24/7 surveillance there still isnt any realistic barrier preventing some moron from leaving a loaded gun on the floor.

Just like mandating a class, test or license. Any idiot can pass a test. It's what that idiot does after the test that matters and is ultimately unregulatable.

reply to post by eriktheawful


You are missing the point ! The kids ARE taught to be responsible. your totally missing the point!!

Sometimes in life kids are too young for some things. Do u think just because a child is taught to handle a gun responsibly that they wont do something totally stupid like point it at someone?? Even though the parent teaches them the rights and wrongs does not mean that little 4+ developing brain is going to take it all in as gospel.

Even older kids who are older, but still kids, are taught sex education, how to prevent pregnancy etc, but they STILL go out and have unprotected sex and get pregnant. And these are older kids!! Putting a gun in a 5 year olds hands and telling that kid to be responsisble is just stupid on the adults part.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

Laws or regs covering storage like that is nice and all but without 24/7 surveillance there still isnt any realistic barrier preventing some moron from leaving a loaded gun on the floor.

Just like mandating a class, test or license. Any idiot can pass a test. It's what that idiot does after the test that matters and is ultimately unregulatable.

Regulations help to an extent as long as they are reasonable. Trust me I dislike feinstein and think she was a witch but its not a black and white issue my friend.

If the parents are negligent and the children get hurt then the authorities should prosecute the parents. Such people give a bad name to all gun owners and only help the progressives pass stricter gun laws that never really get enforced anyway.

reply to post by crazyewok


This is not about giving up guns. Its about giving babies guns ! OFC they shouldnt give up their guns. This whole thing is about giving their little kids guns. Its totally different.

reply to post by crazyewok


Thank you. I mean that.

I'm glad to see someone who doesn't live here understands what it is like here.

It is sad in these days of developed technology and firearm safety that this was able to happened. 1 is not going to speak to deep on the negligence for the parents are dealing with tragic loss right now not to mention the pain the brother is dealing with... There was a mistake made yes by the parents but who are any to judge the parents.. and their foolish mistake as they are dealing with an extreme loss from the mistake. With this in mind hopefully in the future there will be more safety precautions in place to more protect the youth and untrained from these types of incidents maybe with ammo alerts within the smart guns to alert of live chambers somehow.

May the family dealing with the loss and conscious strain on the brother find a way to overcome as 1 can imagine the pains they all are dealing with. And may those in control of these weapons & protections find a way to prevent further loss of life from these weapons (if they are to be kept) with more advancements in safety.

RIP to the lost child and may the LORD guide the families way thru this terrible time they are experiencing.

LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Indigo5

 

No offense...but it is stupid thinking like this that gets kids killed. A 5 year old is not capable of "respecting" a lethal weapon the same way an adult does.

I guess you missed the part where he said “supervised.”

The earlier you start the better IMO. I bet my 5 year old knows more about the golden rules of gun safety than most of the anti-gun nutters out there.

"Supervised" has nothing to do with it. This gun was given to a child.

her 5-year-old son, Kristian, began playing with a rifle he was given last year.

Your 5 year old child might "know" about gun safety...but your 5 year old does not "understand" about gun safety.

This gun was given/belonged to the child.

God/Nature has decided in it's infinite and timeless wisdom to not give 5 year olds the ability to create life...despite how much they might be "knowledgable" about the reproduction process...because they simply are incapable of understanding the full consequences at that age..

..nor should idiots give 5 year olds the tools to take life.

It is not about "knowledge" it is about "comprehension" ...and a 5 year old does not have the ability to comprehend the consequences fully no matter how much "knowledge" they have.

Apparently, as these parents have proven, even many adults lack the ability to comprehend consequences for thier actions.