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5-year-old Kentucky boy fatally shoots 2-year-old sister with gift rifle

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posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by Tikitiboo
 


Which is worse?

1) Teaching a kid how to properly respect and treat a firearm, as well as safety rules, how to shoot, what and when to shoot, etc.

or

2) Giving your kid a video game in which he has a high-powered rifle, shooting anything that moves, to bloody pulps?

Hmm.....


If you have firearms in the house, you're better off if kids know how to respect and treat the weapons, vs. just hoping they never get to them. If you never show them, it becomes this "secret" to be investigated. If you show them how serious it is, and firmly set the rules, they never even try and get to them (if they are raised right). I would never even THINK of getting my rifle, as a kid, without asking my father.




posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by eriktheawful
 



And you'll get no argument from me, you didn't show where I also said "which I don't agree with" in my post.


Wasn't criticizing you, simply reiterating your point, sorry if it seemed otherwise. I know you agreed it was a dumb idea.


No problem.

Even in the military in many situations, your weapon is not "locked and loaded".

When I stood watch, my weapon NEVER had any rounds loaded in it. As you said, it only takes seconds to load it.

Only certain situations warranted actually having your weapon loaded.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by Tikitiboo
reply to post by redoubt
 


OH please !! wake up America. Laptops are made for computer stuff, cars are made for travel and driving, guns are made for killing, end of story. How many children do u see "playing pretend" and pointing laptops at each other and saying "bang" how many children do u see "play pretend" pointing cars at each other and saying "bang" u get my point yet? Guns are for killing things. animals people, that is what a gun is made for, if it is not then what is the point of it. I did not know kids in America were allowed guns, this is a total surprise to me, i'm shocked, i honestly thought it was only the Taliban who armed their kids, boy was i mistaken.
edit on 2-5-2013 by Tikitiboo because: (no reason given)


Knives are made for cutting......but they can kill.

Chainsaws are made for cutting......but they can kill.

Nailguns are made for building......but they can kill.

Swimming pools are made for swimming.....but they can kill.

Bows are made for hunting, target shooting, and yes, they were made for killing people at one time......and they can still kill.

Axes are made for splitting wood......but they can kill too.

Guns are made, for a mutltitude of things: Sports target shooting. Hunting. Threatening (you don't have to shoot the intruder in your house, but if you cock that shotgun and point it at them, they most likely will pee their pants and beg you to let them leave...intact), and yes, they are also made for killing.

Guns, like many other things, have more than one purpose, and yes, they can be made for killing.

Ours here at our house are used for: target shooting, wild dogs, hunting and defense (first responder time to get to my house here in the woods? about 20 minutes or more). But we refrain from running around killing people with them. We figure it's not a good use for that considering all the trouble you can get in, and the fact that I teach my kids that each human life is sacred, and to take one away is only an option if they are trying to take yours.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


The answer is No 1, it's a nobrainer. but we will never agree, that much i do know, we may be great allies, all speak the same lingo and all that crap, but i think its becoming more and more obvious that our brothers and sisters across the water are in fact a completely different culture from us, this is also a surprise, all my 43 years i thought we were so alike, but its just not true. Arming 5 year old's and teaching them the gun is not for rational thinking nations. I fear for America in many many ways, it is all going so wrong. I understand your culture has accepted this for years, therefore i understand why you think its ok. It just doesn't make it right.

I'm the man on the outside looking in.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 


Nice try


But no.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by Cabin
Here for example, you will never get a licence (or maybe after some 5-10 year-old-period) if you lose your gun, even when it is stolen. Nobody cares, the fact is you owned and had to keep it in a place, where it can not be gotten by other people. If murder is made with the gun, you are also held accountible as somebody who helps with the murder, although the punishment is still 1-5 years.

Do they also hold you accountable if someone steals your car or carjacks you and then runs over or kills someone in a getaway attempt? I'm not saying leaving a gun laying around for a 5 and a 2 year old to access is anything but negligent, but I certainly don't think a gun owner should be held accountable if their weapon is stolen any more than a car owner should be held responsible for the same thing.


It is called criminal negligence. Laws exsit for this reason and should be used to the maximum extent possible to prosecute such negligent parents. People like him give a lot of gun owners a bad name. I have seen posters like you defend such behavior in a round about way and its sick.

The gun was not stolen by strangers, it was picked up because it was laying in the wrong place and loaded. Gun safes exist for a reason and I am not one that says you should store ammo seperately from the gun. Just keep # out of children's reach much like other dangerous stuff. Basic common sense here!



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by Tikitiboo
 




I'm the man on the outside looking in.

As long as we keep it that way, no problems, right?

Just keep to your own on that side of the water.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 


But there aren't a great number of deaths attributed to irresponsible tractor operation.
I drove a tractor at a young age, too. Good times.


Don't get me wrong, I actually have nothing against kids owning guns (even 5-year-olds), as long as the responsible party (the parents) TEACH them the importance of responsible firearm ownership and take responsibility to prevent accidents.

I know many of us were raised around guns, but that was a different time. People are DIFFERENT now. Look at how kids are raised today. Without respect or responsibility or paying consequences for their actions. This is a different time and calls for different rules. I also know that many of us ARE responsible with firearms. That's not the issue. The problem is with those who are not. Because of them, I think there should be requirements, to take additional steps to insure more safety of firearm ownership and operation.

But I can see my "common sense" position isn't sexy and not many are interested in even discussing it. (Thank you, Gazrok, for your reply.)
It's much more dramatic to have the same, tired pro- and anti- anger-fest that always happens here.

I'll bow out now and just say that I feel so sorry for that 5-year-old! His parents did him a grave disservice and he will likely suffer his whole life because of their stupidity.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by Tikitiboo
 


Which is worse?

1) Teaching a kid how to properly respect and treat a firearm, as well as safety rules, how to shoot, what and when to shoot, etc.

or

2) Giving your kid a video game in which he has a high-powered rifle, shooting anything that moves, to bloody pulps?

Hmm.....


If you have firearms in the house, you're better off if kids know how to respect and treat the weapons, vs. just hoping they never get to them. If you never show them, it becomes this "secret" to be investigated. If you show them how serious it is, and firmly set the rules, they never even try and get to them (if they are raised right). I would never even THINK of getting my rifle, as a kid, without asking my father.


Well to be perfectly honest I'd rather take my chance with my kid shooting up pixels on the TV instead of shooting up a classroom full of kids.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 




But there aren't a great number of deaths attributed to irresponsible tractor operation.

It averages 265 deaths per year(not necessarily irresponsible, but how responsible is a person that allows a tractor to kill them or others?)

That would be 262 more than died at the Boston Marathon this year, just to put it in perspective.

We should probably have a lockdown of the US until all tractors have been put in jail.
edit on 2-5-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by Tikitiboo
 


Which is worse?

1) Teaching a kid how to properly respect and treat a firearm, as well as safety rules, how to shoot, what and when to shoot, etc.

or

2) Giving your kid a video game in which he has a high-powered rifle, shooting anything that moves, to bloody pulps?

Hmm.....


If you have firearms in the house, you're better off if kids know how to respect and treat the weapons, vs. just hoping they never get to them. If you never show them, it becomes this "secret" to be investigated. If you show them how serious it is, and firmly set the rules, they never even try and get to them (if they are raised right). I would never even THINK of getting my rifle, as a kid, without asking my father.


Yeah but 5 year olds are way too young. Never in my wildest dreams would I imagine someone younger than 12 years old getting taught about guns. Just to put in perspective most states require you become 16 just to get a drivers permit and practice driving and when you become 17 get a drivers license. You have to be 21 to get served alcohol at a bar.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:56 AM
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What the heck. You don't give a 5 year old a 22. Has no one heard of a Red Ryder .... you know, a BB gun. Crazy. I'm a avid defender of gun rights, but a 22 does not belong in a 5 years old hands. Nor should it be sitting in a corner of the house for him to easily access.
edit on 2-5-2013 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Absolutely ! (btw seen this response alot, its old, and ill go to the good ole USA anytime i feel like it OK)

Not too long ago, i was sitting watching the news. And all the little kids in Afghanistan were stood holding firearms, the sight made me want to puke. It made me feel so sad, it looked so wrong. NOW i find out America does the same, (shock horror) what chance do we have in this world as a species, as a planet for gods sake, when the most powerfull nation on the planet has these morals??? Anyway, its your country do what you like ( prepares for the inc of "yea thats right butt out blah blah")

America has amused itself to death.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Times might be different, yes.

But for many of us, where we live has not changed.

---------------------------------------------
For others in this thread...

I live quite far from civilization. I'm surrounded by woods. Wild animals of all kinds trek though my land. Many times I see them, sometimes just the prints they've left.

You can walk for acres around my land, and think you're the only human alive. Quite isolated.

It was like that for my father. My father's father. And his father before him.

And now it's the same for my son.

He doesn't step outside and walk down a block to some strip mall. He doesn't walk to school because it's located over 8 miles away.

We have pitbulls that are strays that belong to no one that come up here on the land. Growling, hackles raised. Which is the last thing they do before I put a round between their eyes and bury them. That's because animal control here is a single man in a pickup truck that could take hours to get to where you are.

So yes, times do change. However, and this I must stress to our friends across the "pond" that think "you americans, you're all alike. Always slobbering over your guns.", that we don't all as Americans live in some big city. We don't all live within walking distance of Times Square in NY. That the US while it does have mega cities, is mostly rural still. Wild lands, that still have some natural dangers in them.

Our country is not one big city that we all live in. It's a very large country with lots of land with a lot of things in and on them.
Of course Hollywood and TV hasn't done much to show this. If I'd never been to the US I would think that everyone lives in NY, LA, Chicago, MIami, etc, etc, etc.

But we all don't. Here's a picture of my "backyard"



There are things in here that can kill you, and rescue is not going to happen right away.

So for those of you that think we here in the US live in some big mega city, or that every square inch of our country is "tamed", you are sadly mistaken.

Guns are a part of our life. They are a tool that we use, and have used for literally centuries now. We all don't live in some apartment on 42 street, and we don't all live in the subburbs.

Try to get it in your heads that our country is not only diverse in the kinds of people that live here, but the very land we live on is that way too......and most of it is not cleared, developed parking lots.
edit on 2-5-2013 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by eriktheawful
 


But there aren't a great number of deaths attributed to irresponsible tractor operation.
I drove a tractor at a young age, too. Good times.


Who do you think should get sued if a child gets seriously hurt by a tractor accident??



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Kali74
 



You (plural) are politicizing and polarizing as much if not more so than the anti-gun advocates.
This poor girls death shouldn't be a platform for either side of the debate.


I agree...but the article was written and the first blows against gun culture were dealt. Do you expect me to stand by and allow these attacks to go unanswered?

You know me better than that!!


Yes the article was written, accidental deaths of children tend to make the news regardless of how it happened. You (plural again) are choosing to either use it to defend or to attack gun ownership/laws/culture. There's no bias in the article.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 


Dude, I'm in the US. And I never said a THING suggesting that you shouldn't own guns. I think you didn't read my posts at all as your response has NOTHING to do with what I did say.

I don't know why I checked again for responses. I'm stupid sometimes.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by eriktheawful
 


Dude, I'm in the US. And I never said a THING suggesting that you shouldn't own guns. I think you didn't read my posts at all as your response has NOTHING to do with what I did say.

I don't know why I checked again for responses. I'm stupid sometimes.


No,no Heretic, only part of my post was to you (times do change, but some places don't).

The rest of my post was directed at others in this thread. I apologize and should have drawn a line in it (which I'll go back and do right now) and said that.

I was not going after you.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 


So southerns are reckless by nature? Is that what you are trying to imply? Sure some folks hate guns and will use any excuse to ban them, but a lot of folks(like me) say guns are ok provided children and incompetant people are denied access to them.

Kids can choke on toys, drink dangerous household cleaning detergents, play with a gun that was accidentally left loaded, etc. Good parenting is important but our fast food society is starting to make everyone irresponsible because everyone is overworked and overstressed.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by ngchunter
 


I too was taught about guns at a very early age. And too, as a result, learned to respect the weapon for what it was. I don't think we ever had a gun locked up in the house- in fact they were in the front porch on the gun rack, with the bullets below. Living remotely on a huge farm, one never knew when one would have to deal with a rabid animal- and it happened more often than one would think. Never would we have even thought about touching a gun unless there was a real reason for us to do so. I think we feared getting our hides tanned more than we were worried about what the guns were gonna do.



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