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5-year-old Kentucky boy fatally shoots 2-year-old sister with gift rifle

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posted on May, 2 2013 @ 08:21 AM
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I was shooting a bb gun at about five when my father was present. I had shot his twenty two about that time. At about six or seven, after I learned to be responsible and safe with a gun I was allowed to shoot my bb gun by myself and learned to trim the populations of birds, frogs, and squirrels at that time. I learned never to shoot animals that were rare before being allowed to shoot them.

I showed responsibility, not shooting towards others or being wreckless and was allowed to go shooting with the twenty two at about eight or nine. My friends were still shooting bb guns so I shot bb guns when with them. I am sure that these parents feel bad about leaving the bullet in the gun. The parents are responsible for checking to make sure that it is empty and I am sure it was probably just an oversight. This kid shouldn't have been pointing that gun at anyone though, when I started to teach my granddaughter, I had her walk around with the unloaded gun and do things, making sure she was aware of where the barrel was at all times. I had her walk through the woods, stressing that I would not even let her have a bullet till she learned to handle it responsibly.

When we were going to go to the rifle range, I tried the gun a few times before letting her shoot to make sure it would work ok. I was using my old bullets and the casing split and the gasses popped the ejector out. So much for day one, time to fix the gun
Next time we were on the way to the range, the handle on the case fell off when walking down the steps in the porch
Oh oh.....Time to start looking at whether I am being warned
I bought a new case but we haven't been out to shoot since then....Still have to teach her, got to start over again from the beginning because that was two years ago. I bought about five hundred new shells before the price went up
Now I have about fifteen hundred to teach her with.

My two grandsons play too much violent video games. I am not going to teach them how to shoot. They swing toy guns around and shoot toy guns that shoot projectiles at each other. My granddaughter is shooting airsoft paintballs with her boy friend now, something I do not like. I feel that a gun, even if it is a paintball gun, should never be aimed at others unless needed. The pellets can cause harm if they hit in the right place on the body. To each his own.....but it is questionable if I will now teach my granddaughter to shoot or to leave her any guns when I do die. If a person gets used to shooting at people, when they get mad they may take out a gun unless their training is very good. The military teaches self discipline, and this is very important if you are used to shooting at people. Paintball games do not teach self discipline or responsibility. If someone was aiming a paintball gun at me and I heard something whizzing by, I would probably yell at them and if they continued shooting I may possibly shoot them if I had a gun. Those paintball guns look pretty real and the kids have pellets for them that could kill a person if they hit in the right place. Those pellets make a paintball gun into a weapon. Kids don't understand that if they see someone in the woods with a gun, it may be a hunter with a real gun.

To summarize, I feel that the parents screwed up and that the gun should have been emptied. The kid obviously was not trained right yet, he should have never pointed the gun at his sister and should have checked for bullets immediately when picking up a gun. If he couldn't do that because he was only five, then he shouldn't be shooting at five, some kids learn young, some people never learn.
If your kids have paintball guns, Do they have these solid pellets, my granddaughters boyfriend has some and he is only sixteen.




posted on May, 2 2013 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by cavtrooper7
 


And dead children are an appropriate and acceptable collateral of that?

There are always going to be stupid people in America. And if you let them keep guns with impunity they are occasionally going to let their kids kill each other. If you're okay with that purely so you can protect yourself against another British invasion or a phantom takeover by communists - and incidentally feel like a tough guy,which I'm sure isn't your primary motive - then fair enough. Most people aren't.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


There were guns in my house when I was a kid. My parents were uber-responsible about it. And I agree 100% with those who blame the parents for this.

So, should PARENTS of underage children have to do anything special (classes, testing, licensing, etc.) to buy a gun for their child? Can we hold them accountable BEFORE the fact for the death of their precious daughter?



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by JuniorDisco
 



And dead children are an appropriate and acceptable collateral of that?

What can be done to prevent it?? Stupidity happens!




There are always going to be stupid people in America. And if you let them keep guns with impunity they are occasionally going to let their kids kill each other.

Who are you to decide who is “too stupid” to own a gun? It’s alarming how so many people feel superior and think they can impose their judgment on others. Where in the constitution is this “stupid” rule spelled out?




If you're okay with that purely so you can protect yourself against another British invasion or a phantom takeover by communists - and incidentally feel like a tough guy,which I'm sure isn't your primary motive - then fair enough. Most people aren't.

Obviously that's not true or we would have allowed ourselves to be neutered long ago like so many other countries. .



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by Cabin
 





In my opinion, these parents should be taken criminally accountable for murder. Even though they directly did not murder somebody, their carelessness led a person who is not even able to think straight yet to murder somebody else.

Agreed... because this is criminally stupid.
For anyone that says the parents suffer enough by the loss of their child.... NO. They need to made an example of by the criminal justice system. Other people need to know that this kind of neglect and stupidity has consequences!!!



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Gazrok
 


There were guns in my house when I was a kid. My parents were uber-responsible about it. And I agree 100% with those who blame the parents for this.

So, should PARENTS of underage children have to do anything special (classes, testing, licensing, etc.) to buy a gun for their child? Can we hold them accountable BEFORE the fact for the death of their precious daughter?


Onerous laws won't change this.

Besides manslaughter or child endangerment charges, as well as criminal negligence charges could be brought up, and they should be. If they are not then it is a failure of law enforcement.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 



So, should PARENTS of underage children have to do anything special (classes, testing, licensing, etc.) to buy a gun for their child?

Absolutely not!

We’ve never had such a stupid requirement before and obviously we’re all here. You grew up with guns and your parents didn’t have this training you speak of. How did you survive??



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 08:54 AM
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Our son is 10 years old and has 2 firearms (a .22 Baby Cricket, a 9mm Marlin Camper), a BB gun and a 22# Compound bow.

With each and everyone of these he's not allowed to touch without adult supervision, and has gone through quite a bit of safety training on each.

When he was 5, his mother's father, a big gun collector, wanted to give his grandson the Baby Cricket. Both his mother and I felt that 5 was a bit too young, but that was for our son. His attention span was short, and he had a hard time following directions......this meant it would not be a good idea to allow him to handle firearms of any kind.

By the time he was 7, 2 years later, we felt that he was much better at listening and following directions and allowed his grandfather to give him the Baby Cricket.

Our son is extremely responsible with any of these weapons and takes the safety of them and those around him very seriously, to the point that he even lectures me on safety.

I've seen many posts of people being horrified over the fact that the child with a gun was 5 years of age. While that age is entirely too young to actually "own" a firearm, there is nothing wrong with starting to teach your children about gun safety and how to handle guns, especially if they live with them.

The tragic part of all this is that this could have been completely avoided if the parents had simply followed rules about gun safety. Even if the weapon had been loaded and cocked....it should not have been leaning up against a door......it should have been up on a gun rack out of reach of the 5 year old. (even then, I wouldn't have the weapon loaded at all).

I know Raist posted some pictures of a Baby Cricket, but I thought I would add some here.

Here is what the Baby Cricket .22 rifle looks like, as noted, it can not be operated without using a key to unlock it:



The weapon is normally left in this position with the bolt slid back and the key lock fully depressed in:



With the key lock fully pressed in, it makes a metal rod pushed up so that the bolt on the rifle can not be slid forward to cock and fire a round:



The very, very tragic part of all this, is even with the key lock depressed in, it is possible to make the weapon even more safe. If you depress the trigger, you can slide the bold and trigger assembly COMPLETELY OUT OF THE RIFLE AND STORE IT.



If this had been done, even if the 5 year old had gotten a hold of the rifle, the only good it would be is as a metal club. The bolt slides out with ease and slides back in with no effort at all and is made that way so the weapon can be cleaned properly.

To fire this gun, you have to unlock it. You have to take one round of .22 LR ammo and carefully insert it into the breach. Then you have to slide the bold forward and turn it down.
THEN you have to cock it by pulling the cocking mechanism fully back until you hear a "click" and at 7, my son had a hell of time pulling it back because the spring is so strong. I used to have to help him. I can't see a 5 year old doing this easily.
Once it's cocked, there is NO safety on it. You can NOT load and cock this weapon and put a safety on it at all. That alone tells me that the parents of these children were idiots.

I've heard of many people that keep their guns loaded and cocked, but with the safety on, and while I don't even agree with that, in this case, this rifle HAS NO SAFETY ONCE IT'S BEEN LOADED AND COCKED.

If you drop it hard enough, it could go off quite easily.

In any case, there is absolutely nothing wrong with teaching your children gun safety (that doesn't mean having them actually handle a firearm at all btw), especially if they live where firearms happen to be.
edit on 2-5-2013 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 



So, should PARENTS of underage children have to do anything special (classes, testing, licensing, etc.) to buy a gun for their child? Can we hold them accountable BEFORE the fact for the death of their precious daughter?


If they'd just NOT be stupid, and actually CARE about the safety of their children, it never would have happened. You can't TEACH common sense, and that is what this was...a complete lack of common sense. To be honest, if I had underage kids LIVING in my home, I'd have a gun safe over a locked closet. Granted, the closet lock is an actual exterior door lock, not a regular closet lock....but kids are curious, so I'd have a gun safe if they were living in the house vs. visiting. Whenever any of my friends come over with small children, they know I lock the closet. They don't even have to ask. (and furthermore, it's in a room they aren't allowed in).



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by seabag


What can be done to prevent it?? Stupidity happens!

Erm make examples of reckless parents and enforce rules so safe storage and handling.


Originally posted by seabag
Who are you to decide who is “too stupid” to own a gun? It’s alarming how so many people feel superior and think they can impose their judgment on others. Where in the constitution is this “stupid” rule spelled out?

So what if its not in the constitution? No reason not not make rules about safe handling and storage and punnish reckless people. No ones saying take away the guns. Just use them responsibly.



Originally posted by seabag
Obviously that's not true or we would have allowed ourselves to be neutered long ago like so many other countries. .


I get pissed off iwth yanks telling us Brits that we are neutered or weak for not haveing guns. It our bloody choice! Have your guns but dont tell us we are weak for not wanting them! And last time I checked even without guns the UK and Australia havent done too badly. Ok it probably wont work in the USA but its working for us.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 



So, should PARENTS of underage children have to do anything special (classes, testing, licensing, etc.) to buy a gun for their child?

Absolutely not!

We’ve never had such a stupid requirement before and obviously we’re all here. You grew up with guns and your parents didn’t have this training you speak of. How did you survive??



It people like you with yor irresponsible "I should be able to do what I want with my guns" attitude that is makeing the many responsible gun owners look bad!

How would a saftey course and rules on safe storage effect you if you are a responsible gun owner? They wont.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 08:58 AM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 



I've heard of many people that keep their guns loaded and cocked, but with the safety on


That's ridiculous, as just about any weapon that has a safety usually has a clip, and it pretty much takes no time to insert a clip and snap one into the chamber. That practice is simply begging for an accident.

With kids in the house, such a practice is inconceivable.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 



How would a saftey course and rules on safe storage effect you if you are a responsible gun owner? They wont.



I'd be fine with a mandatory safety course and test, as long as you could simply take the test and skip the course, if you already were taught all of this the conventional way (i.e. your parents or a mentor). In most states, there is a waiting period anyhow, so I don't see the test as being too much of an imposition, and I DO feel it would prevent deaths, unlike other gun legislation.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by eriktheawful
 



I've heard of many people that keep their guns loaded and cocked, but with the safety on


That's ridiculous, as just about any weapon that has a safety usually has a clip, and it pretty much takes no time to insert a clip and snap one into the chamber. That practice is simply begging for an accident.

With kids in the house, such a practice is inconceivable.


And you'll get no argument from me, you didn't show where I also said "which I don't agree with" in my post.

However, it's the truth. I know a lot of people that keep weapons loaded and cocked with the safety on.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


reply to post by seabag
 


reply to post by Gazrok
 


Should people be permitted to own and operate motor vehicles then, without education, testing, licensing and/or some kind of oversight? (My discussion started with comparing cars and guns)



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:17 AM
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this would be the dumbest argument in the world for the anti-gun folks.

This is a clear example of people killing people, not guns - it's just hidden differently: dumb parents, with dumb ideas (gifting a 5yo a gun), worse teachings (none) and no common sense (normally kept in the corner?!)

'Rural Kentucky' - I rest on your face.
edit on 5/2/2013 by SquirrelNutz because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Just like a drivers' license, you can show up and take a test, without taking a course. I stated above that I was fine with this, for a mandatory gun safety test.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 



And you'll get no argument from me, you didn't show where I also said "which I don't agree with" in my post.


Wasn't criticizing you, simply reiterating your point, sorry if it seemed otherwise. I know you agreed it was a dumb idea.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


OH please !! wake up America. Laptops are made for computer stuff, cars are made for travel and driving, guns are made for killing, end of story. How many children do u see "playing pretend" and pointing laptops at each other and saying "bang" how many children do u see "play pretend" pointing cars at each other and saying "bang" u get my point yet? Guns are for killing things. animals people, that is what a gun is made for, if it is not then what is the point of it. I did not know kids in America were allowed guns, this is a total surprise to me, i'm shocked, i honestly thought it was only the Taliban who armed their kids, boy was i mistaken.
edit on 2-5-2013 by Tikitiboo because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by projectvxn
 


reply to post by seabag
 


reply to post by Gazrok
 


Should people be permitted to own and operate motor vehicles then, without education, testing, licensing and/or some kind of oversight? (My discussion started with comparing cars and guns)


I can tell you that in many states, kids operate tractor vehicles and many young ages and are only allowed to cross roads.

But it is up to the parents on the farm to determine at what age the children are old enough to operate farming vehicles, not the government, as long as they remain on that farm.

So this is another case of where children are being taught how to handle dangerous equipment by their parents, where no actual testing or "official" training is required.

Interestingly enough, both my wife and I received all our firearms training and safety while we served in the US military, which was quite extensive. Both we, and our son's grandfather (also a military vet) have been passing on that same training that we received.



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