Moon and Crossbones – Chemtrails and the Power Elite

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posted on May, 2 2013 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by OutonaLimb
 


You just described the exact conditions required for persistent contrail formation. What you saw was exactly how it works. There were the same planes in the sky for the last few weeks. Every day. They just started leaving visible contrails due to the weather front approaching. I don't grasp the need to have an ulterior motive here. It's really simple. Clouds 101.




posted on May, 2 2013 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by SMOKINGGUN2012
 


Yeah and?


Are you just pointing out your beliefs? you could have done in one of the million other chemtrail threads.


Yes and posting another article pointing out another writers views in support of those of us who believe. I also attached a link with many references to the topic for those interested in reading.



I believe stuff gets sprayed, however whats shown as chemtrails via photos or video suspiciously look like contrails and when claims are made about the photos or videos and questions asked how those claims have been verified one gets called a shill or gov. disinfo agent, why?

Why cant questions about claims made by believers just be answered if they are so sure of their beliefs?

Why is it many times "do your research Im not doing for you" is given when asked basic questions for example, how was the altitude of the 2 trails determined? or At what altitude was the plane flying?

The answers given to basic questions concerning chemtrails/contrails are rather telling of those that believe in chemtrails.


Why can't these claims be answered? Can you verify every single thing the govt's of this world do? NO you can't. Can anyone just randomly get information about secret or clandestine operations? No they can't......
Those who jump into a thread like this and spew out the typical few catch phrases like what about the altitude, or what about the humidity, or the weather front, claim that this is so simply explained. How foolish of us to actually question something that is so easily explained by the average poster. ALL the evidence is false and all the people that claim this is real are all lying.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


NO I don't believe it is the aliens doing it and I did not post anything to suggest that. That is merely 1 of many references at that link for those who chose to read them. It is up to the reader to decide what may be true or not. I live near Chicago and have been watching air traffic for years. This being very central in the country there are many criss crossing flight paths here for long distance flights. Some flights have no trail, some have a trail that disperses fairly quick, and some have trails that spread out and linger for hours. No they are not all the same and no they are not just exhaust.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by SMOKINGGUN2012
How foolish of us to actually question something that is so easily explained by the average poster. ALL the evidence is false and all the people that claim this is real are all lying.


There's a huge difference between lying, and just being wrong because the person doesn't understand what they're seeing. If you were TankerEnemy with the videos that they post, I'd say you were lying, as so many of those videos (including the KC-10 video where the crew member says "The chemtrail believers will love this") have been proven to be flat out lies.

The average chemtrail believer, in my opinion, just doesn't understand aviation and weather. As far as I've seen, not one of the people that says there are no chemtrails has ever said it's impossible the government is spraying us, just that the evidence that's been pointed out has other explanations, and doesn't fit "beyond a doubt" for evidence (the "sprayer planes" that are ballast tanks, the tanker with the drogue attachments for refueling aircraft that can't take a boom, etc.)



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by SMOKINGGUN2012
No they are not all the same and no they are not just exhaust.


How do you KNOW?



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 





Some flights have no trail, some have a trail that disperses fairly quick, and some have trails that spread out and linger for hours. No they are not all the same and no they are not just exhaust.


Are you going to try and convince me what I have seen with my own eyes for years is wrong?

Are they sometimes other than just exhaust? Yes I believe so. There are plenty of stories to support this. Military personnel, an airline mechanic, and even other countries have said it is true. They are all lying right? Prove it.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


I understand perfectly what I am seeing when planes that are at cruising altitude have DIFFERENT trails. Some have regular dissipating trails and others at nearly the same, or exactly the same altitude have widespread cloud like trails that linger and cover the entire sky. The weather can't explain that so why don't you try.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by SMOKINGGUN2012
reply to post by network dude
There are plenty of stories to support this. Military personnel, an airline mechanic, and even other countries have said it is true. They are all lying right? Prove it.


Can you provide links to these and I am sure it will be done.

for my part I wil ltake on "an airline mechanic" - the only one of those I am aware of is an old story that I think I have seen on Carnicom - but it is also on here - www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am an airline mechanic (started my employment as an apprentice with New Zealand National Airways corporation in 1976 in Christchurch, New Zealand, mainly working on Boeing 737-200's and Fokker F-27 Friendships) - and to me this story is rubbish. It displays none of the characteristics I would expect of an actual mechanic - there is no reference to parts manuals or maintenance manuals for example, or paperwork - these are the basic structures of all airline maintenance.

His comments about a "pecking order" are rubbish IMO - while I've only worked for 2 airlines I have worked with other mechanics from all over the world and have never heard of any such heirachy - certainly some jobs are more favoured than others by various people, and there does get to be some degree of specialisation, but maintenance organisations are also wary of creating too much of that lest someone leaving creates a major hole in their capability.

all in all to me it looks like someone making up a story that they think sounds like what mechanics do. Perhaps they have been in a hanger and seen some activities and woven a story around something they do not actually know anything about.

And then never bothered to back it up with more "evidence" or actually coming forward.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by SMOKINGGUN2012
reply to post by network dude
 





Some flights have no trail, some have a trail that disperses fairly quick, and some have trails that spread out and linger for hours. No they are not all the same and no they are not just exhaust.


Are you going to try and convince me what I have seen with my own eyes for years is wrong?

Are they sometimes other than just exhaust? Yes I believe so. There are plenty of stories to support this. Military personnel, an airline mechanic, and even other countries have said it is true. They are all lying right? Prove it.


You said you can tell the difference between contrails and chemtrails. I asked how you KNOW.

Contrails can either dissipate quickly, or they can last for hours. It all depends on the conditions. That is science fact. It has been for many, many years. All I am saying is that the lines in the sky sure do look just like contrails, act just like contrails, and they behave just like contrails. So knowing all that, why would anyone jump to the conclusion that they are something other than contrails? I mean other than paranoia.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by SMOKINGGUN2012
 


Weather can explain it all. If you don't think so, you should research and tell us why we are wrong. Clouds persist and last for hours, so contrails can and do as well. It does not require any chemical addition, either. Clouds have been persisting for as long as there have been clouds. They are dirty air and water. Which is what a contrail also contains.
If you can find a weather guide that says clouds disappear within minutes of forming, I'll believe you.
Until then, you are only offering your opinion, without any supporting facts.

Prove we are wrong.
And that is just addressing the atmospheric part of your post.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Because you say so right? Just because you have not experienced a work environment similar to his does not mean it can't happen. Yes that is the story I was talking about. There are some of us who choose to believe and you and others are entitled to not believe. BTW there are some links about other countries doing the same. Feel free to Google the subject. Are the sites credible? Maybe not notoriously but do you really expect the subject to be plastered on the MSM?



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


I already did prove you wrong. Weather can't explain planes flying the same altitude and making different trails. If it was the weather/humidity/ice crystals EVERY plane would make similar trails in a short timeframe if the weather remains the same.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by SMOKINGGUN2012
 


But the weather CAN explain that. The atmosphere isn't static in one location. If one plane is slightly higher than the other, it could be flying through an area that is better suited for a persistent contrail, as opposed to the one that is slightly lower, or vice versa. A thousand feet of altitude can make a huge difference in contrail formation, from no contrail at all, to one that persists.

The problem is that unless you are using something like Flightradar, or Flight Aware, and both planes are using the right transponder, you can't tell if they're at the same altitude or not just by looking at them. They may appear to be, but could be 1-2,000 feet apart.
edit on 5/2/2013 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by SMOKINGGUN2012
 


Where did you get your education on the judging of the altitude and distance of aircraft?
I don't have any, but have spoken many times to several people who have. Some were military, some were pilots, some air traffic control. They all had a lot of training to be able to make more than a wild guess. And lots of practice.
If you have such training, please explain.
If you haven't, then your claim about "exact altitude" is just a guess, and probably very wrong.
Also, no two engines are going to produce the same trail, no matter what. Just like no two cars will be tuned the same. I drive a Ford Explorer, my husband a Honda Accord. Two different exhaust plumes. The same will happen with planes. There are many reasons why it happens. And that is just about the planes.
If you then look at the atmosphere, those planes are very likely within two areas of different conditions. That happens all the time as well. The atmosphere is not homogenous. It's chaotic and dynamic. Without knowing about the atmosphere you can't make an informed conclusion about what you are seeing.
Knowledge is power. Learn about what you are seeing, don't just believe because some website tells you nonsense.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by SMOKINGGUN2012
 


You don't understand the atmosphere at all.

Get a weather guide and LEARN. Then you will know what you see, and not just have to believe.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Hey, a new website is offering up to $25,000 for a whistle-blower to step forward. They even admit that a "chemtrail" program would require 1000's of people. It's kind of strange. Here's the link. Blow the Whistle

I have a thread about the strangeness of the entire website already. The site is either confused or confusing. I haven't figured out which quite yet.
I guess I am confused about their apparent confusion about "chemtrails."



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by SMOKINGGUN2012
reply to post by network dude
 





Some flights have no trail, some have a trail that disperses fairly quick, and some have trails that spread out and linger for hours. No they are not all the same and no they are not just exhaust.


Are you going to try and convince me what I have seen with my own eyes for years is wrong?

Are they sometimes other than just exhaust? Yes I believe so. There are plenty of stories to support this. Military personnel, an airline mechanic, and even other countries have said it is true. They are all lying right? Prove it.


You said you can tell the difference between contrails and chemtrails.

No I didn't. Post the exact quote.




Contrails can either dissipate quickly, or they can last for hours. It all depends on the conditions. That is science fact. It has been for many, many years. All I am saying is that the lines in the sky sure do look just like contrails, act just like contrails, and they behave just like contrails. So knowing all that, why would anyone jump to the conclusion that they are something other than contrails? I mean other than paranoia.


Prove to me that contrails and chemtrails are completely different. Not all plane trails are 100% only created by the weather. I am not jumping to conclusions and being paranoid merely from watching plane trails, don't be absurd. I will choose to believe what I wish and you do the same. I am not going to endlessly argue this topic with the resident debunkers.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by OutonaLimb
 


Hey, I do not share views on 9/11 with any these people as far as I know...especially goodolddave...that bothers me...

Having said that, you really do need to get a grip about the contrails over your head...if one of these planes flies over your head at that altitude and is not leaving a trail, chances are you would have not noticed it...it is that far up...

So for you to say no planes is disingenuous at best...



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by SMOKINGGUN2012
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Because you say so right? Just because you have not experienced a work environment similar to his does not mean it can't happen.


Indeed - but read the link I provided - there is plenty of information on there why the story is nonsense.

and not only have I worked in a similar environment I have done so for almost 40 years now - I have worked for 2 airlines, a 3rd party maintenance organisation and a national regulator (the equivalent of the FAA) - and I have enver seen any of the sort of stuff this story talks about, and neither has anyone else I have encountered - it is a laughing stock.

I have no problem with "it COULD happen" - "spraying stuff" from aircraft is not a difficult thing to do - it has been happening since long before WW2 in various manners.

the issue I have is with the allegation that I and others are part of some criminal conspiracy that IS doing it, right now, and has been for 15 years or more.


Yes that is the story I was talking about. There are some of us who choose to believe and you and others are entitled to not believe.


Choosing to believe against all the evidence does not seem like a very clever thing to do.

Sorry - but there it is - I "choose" to not believe because the "evidence" is all rubbish. Not only are you believing somethign for which there is no good evidence, yuo are choosing to beleive something for which the evidence of absence is also overwhelming.


BTW there are some links about other countries doing the same. Feel free to Google the subject. Are the sites credible? Maybe not notoriously but do you really expect the subject to be plastered on the MSM?


I am familiar with all sorts of claims from many sites - Carnicom, Rense, Aircrap, etc - which ones are you thinking of in particular?
edit on 2-5-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by SMOKINGGUN2012
Prove to me that contrails and chemtrails are completely different.


Well - contrails exist and there is a wealth of information available about them, whereas there is no actual credible informatino to supoprt the existence of "chemtrails" at all - that's a pretty clear difference isnt' it??


Not all plane trails are 100% only created by the weather.


Indeed - there's firefighting, agricultural spraying, JATO bottles, cloud seeding, smoke - but chemtrails are supposedly the long white lines generated by high altitude jets - and none of these are those.




I am not going to endlessly argue this topic with the resident debunkers.


So don't argue - evaluate the actual evidence - for contrails - lots, for "Chemtrails" - none.
edit on 2-5-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)





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