Many in Muslim world want sharia as law of land: survey

reply to post by BO XIAN


Too bad you don't have a link to that C2C broadcast.

I would be interested to hear it.

My stance on this point has changed over the last few years,
i do not believe any culture in the world has a right to force
others into their way of seeing things, it is simply not ok to
use this religious law or any other anywhere on the planet,
cultural rights do not extend to enslaving others, even if the
majority of your country says that it does, tolerating intolerance
has got to stop or we will all end up under religious rule......

It would be the same as the U.S. having never ended
slavery and then claiming to this day that we have a cultural
right to keep slaves, no we wouldn't and it would still be
wrong, just as sharia law is wrong and offensive, if their
desire is to enslave their fellow men to the rule of their
religion then no im sorry they don't get a culture pass on
that...... its just obscene.

reply to post by sonnny1

I can not believe such news.
muslims are victims of the minority radical suicide bombers. how can they support that !?
suicide terrorists who are killing innocent people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria,.......
however radicals are getting more and more power these days, because those terrorists are supported by governments. it is government terrorism.
I can not understand why you feel that muslims want to impose Sharia law on you. are you living in a muslim country ?
and I can not understand why some countries condemn muslim countries for imposing Sharia law on themselves !?

reply to post by sonnny1


AGREED.

I've searched the C2C site several times trying to come up with it, to no avail. I just don't recall significant enough keywords, or something. Puzzling. One would think a decent search function would work. But it was at least a year or 3 after the broadcast that I tried searching. And now it has to be 6-10 years later, imho. I don't know how far back their search function or archive goes.

Maybe a relentless dogpile.com sort of keyword search would turn up something. I haven't tried that, yet.

I'd like to hear the broadcast again and compare it to what's happened since. The Islamic researcher/expert was quite knowledgeable . . . and, I think . . . somewhat prescient about what was ahead for the world.

If anyone else tracks it down, please let me know by U2U.

reply to post by maes2


WHY?

BECAUSE it is enshrined IN THEIR FOUNDING DOCUMENTS that the major strategy TOWARD TOTAL ISLAMIFICATION OF THE WHOLE WORLD

is

to gradually gain political and military power in a culture through deceptive means until the power is sufficient to impose ruthless Sharia by force.

It's there in plain language in their founding documents . . . put the nice face on things . . . even lie . . . in behalf of Islam taking total control eventually.

It's the old frog in the bucket thing initially.

reply to post by generik


reply to post by Unity_99


The west gets attacked almost daily for imposing its own brand of imperialism onto the rest of the world.

If those countries that have Islam as their primary religion, then they should do as they see fit, regardless of the Christians (et al) who also reside there.

As long as Islam doesn't try to impose their religious laws/tenets over here, they can do whatever they want!

This is no surprise to anyone informed about Islam, past surveys showed high support for sharia law, even some of its medieval practices. Look at this survey from 2010, for example (views on harsh punishments section).

Islam lacks hundreds of years of secularisation the west has gone through. Many naive westerners assume that average muslim is just like watered down average christian they see every day. However the reality is more like Westboro Baptist church.

reply to post by beezzer

As long as Islam doesn't try to impose their religious laws/tenets over here, they can do whatever they want!

Nah, if they systematically violate basic human rights on a great enough scale, then they should be stopped. That doesnt happen much, probably because governments of muslim countries do not really listen to the wishes of their people, which is ironically a good thing when it comes to enforcing more extreme versions of sharia. However if they did, then according to both international law and basic human decency they cannot do it.

Proposed Christian law school at Trinity Western under fire because of university’s anti-gay rules
Council of deans argues rules at Langley Christian university are incompatible with teaching law


Secular law schools pose a “hostile environment” for Christians, argues advocate Janet Epp-Buckingham.Photograph by: HANDOUT , Vancouver SunThe heads of Canada’s law schools oppose Trinity Western University’s attempts to star the country’s first religious law school.

The Council of Canadian Law Deans has distributed a letter criticizing the evangelical Christian university’s long-standing requirement that faculty and students refrain from homosexual relationships.

“It’s very troubling for Canadian law school deans,” Bill Flanagan, president of the Canadian Council of Law Deans, said in an interview this week.

The deans’ objection is Trinity Western University’s Bible-based “community covenant,” which the council says makes clear that “gay, lesbian or bisexual students may be subject to disciplinary measures including expulsion.”

www.vancouversun.com...

Star that Beez well said
There is a reason we are supposed to have separation of church and state.
If the Nato countries want to influence the law in Muslim countries they should lead by example
but since that would mean standing for the consttitution and the bill of rights that is not very likely

I am not sure Europeans and Americans and Asians really have any say in what "romans do in rome"
we have bigger problems here at home

Not to mention Christians have blown any credibility they ever had in the Muslim world with all these resource driven crusades, and the dishonesty used to justify them
as it says in the bible:

Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

www.evilbible.com...

the Muslims have seen what happesn to folks like the american indiginous peoples when the christians show up

Many see Sharia law as their only statement in objection to christian hegemony

ATS needs some more members who have lived in and are intimately familiar with the Muslim world and its people to accurately discredit crap like this.

Something tells me it won't change anything though.

Calm down folks, and do not spread ignorances.

1. A survey is only a sampling of the general population, and its findings are subjected to flaws and misinterpretations, and often do not represent the realities of what the citizen truly wants. Any question can be used which seem innocous, but may be understood or interpretated differently than intended.

Thus, do take surveys with a pinch of salt. There are 1.3 billion muslims in the world, and they most certainly are not suicide bombing everyone, or the world would have ended 1200 years ago.


2. Muslims agree to violent jihad should comes as no surprise AT ALL. The answer would be the same if the question was posed to western secular world - because if a nation is attacked, would you, easterner or westerner, not rise up to defend your country in an outright declaration of war?

Prophet Muhammad had taught Jihad, but such option is to be ALWAYS the last options when all means to find common grounds and peace is gone. It must be agreed upon by the community/nation, and not just on a whim by a few men as what the radical militants are doing.


3. The defination of Sharia law is often interpretated differently by many different muslims - scholar, iman, commerce, politicians, masses and the village idiots, simply because that document was written many decades later whereby words could have been mistakenly added in, or removed.

However, its main tenets and principles on the governance of mankind remains the same as the Talmud and Bible. And it is those principles that are often adopted into national constitutions to progress and evolve, as it had for 200 years.

And the muslim world DO have much to catch up with the modern world, as they had been kept uneducated and stupid under the brutal Ottoman rule which only ended in 1911, but then, greedy tribals grabbed for power, and ruled their fiefdom the same.

It is only in recent times, as recent as the 70s, did we see education being given to muslims. It is only 40 years and many still do not have the opportunity for holistic education that the west had for 200 years.

Therefore, before one criticises, it would be better if one makes the attempt to comprehend, NOT JUST READ, the big picture.

Muslims - shia, sunni, Christians, Jews all worshipped the same common Creator, who is known by many names across cultures, barriers, time and space. We all do have common values and even shares common moral and ethical guidelines, for they came from the same Source, but may had been misinterpretated or twisted by flawed man.

Originally posted by skalla
reply to post by sonnny1

 

i dont see many surprises in the quoted figures in the report - it's hardly a surprise for example that the muslim world would want the legal framework and advice from their scripture to be used in their lands. it many seem quite alien to "us in the west" and it is no doubt largely misunderstood and misinterpreted in the western world as certain parts are easily seized upon for culture shock value and exploited as propaganda for the war on terror and to perpetuate the divide and conquer that supports it.

Yea I dont either, but we cant do that in the US though. Its not a matter of disrespect for their religion, or any other. I would hope that those muslims who live in the US understand why.

As if they are going to say otherwise...

Especially in front of other Muslims.

Originally posted by Maslo
Many naive westerners assume that average muslim is just like watered down average christian they see every day. However the reality is more like Westboro Baptist church.

do you know many muslims in real life? i work with quite a few slovakians (who came to the uk anything from 10 to 3 years ago), both from the towns and countryside and they never met any muslims back home before coming to the uk - is it the same for you or do you live in an area where you have had an opportunity to form this opinion from spending time with such rabid monsters?

reply to post by PatriotGames2


I've worked in plenty of majority islamic countries. This poll is reasonably accurate from what I have experianced.

You must remember that Islam is not just religion, but also a ideology.

If you look at history, the only time that islam is peaceful is when they are weak. If they see a weakness in their enemies, they will exploit it.

this is a fascinating report, i'm looking at the long pdf:

www.pewforum.org...

and have only just started to read it, but one thing jumps out at me immediately, especially in the light of many people's fears about Sharia and the attitude of Muslims towards it:

The percentage of Muslims who say they want sharia to be “the official law of the land” varies
widely around the world, from fewer than one-in-ten in Azerbaijan (8%) to near unanimity in
Afghanistan (99%). But solid majorities in most of the countries surveyed across the Middle
East and North Africa, sub-Saharan Africa, South Asia and Southeast Asia favor the
establishment of sharia, including 71% of Muslims in Nigeria, 72% in Indonesia, 74% in Egypt
and 89% in the Palestinian territories.
At the same time, the survey finds that even in many countries where there is strong backing
for sharia, most Muslims favor religious freedom for people of other faiths. In Pakistan, for
example, three-quarters of Muslims say that non-Muslims are very free to practice their
religion, and fully 96% of those who share this assessment say it is “a good thing.” Yet 84% of
Pakistani Muslims favor enshrining sharia as official law. These seemingly divergent views are
possible partly because most supporters of sharia in Pakistan – as in many other countries –
think Islamic law should apply only to Muslims. Moreover, Muslims around the globe have
differing understandings of what sharia means in practice.
The survey – which involved more than 38,000 face-to-face interviews in 80-plus languages
with Muslims across Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa – shows that Muslims tend to be
most comfortable with using sharia in the domestic sphere, to settle family or property
disputes. In most countries surveyed, there is considerably less support for severe
punishments, such as cutting off the hands of thieves or executing people who convert from
Islam to another faith. And even in the domestic sphere, Muslims differ widely on such
questions as whether polygamy, divorce and family planning are morally acceptable and
whether daughters should be able to receive the same inheritance as sons.

how disappointingly reasonable and moderate

there are some other fascinating looking polls on Pew's website too.

reply to post by skalla


Yes - and there is also this bit from the article in the OP.

Amaney Jamal, a Princeton University political scientist who was special adviser for the project, said Muslims in poor and repressive societies tended to identify sharia with basic Islamic values such as equality and social justice.

"In those societies, you tend to see significant support for sharia," she told journalists on a conference call. By contrast, Muslims who have lived under "narrow if not rigid" Islamic systems were less supportive of sharia as the official law.

Like implementing most any religious code as law, there are ample opportunities for abuse. For example, some Christian's might say governance on "biblical principals" would be great. But, they likely wouldn't approve of it turning into something like the inquisition.

reply to post by skalla

do you know many muslims in real life? i work with quite a few slovakians (who came to the uk anything from 10 to 3 years ago), both from the towns and countryside and they never met any muslims back home before coming to the uk - is it the same for you or do you live in an area where you have had an opportunity to form this opinion from spending time with such rabid monsters?

I know a few who study here, but not very deeply. They are the elite, tough. Unless you have spent few years living in an islamic country, outside of a typical tourist locations, and they accepted you, then your opinion will be biased. Even then it may be biased. Id say surveys like these are our best chance to see the big, global picture. Thats assuming that they reflect reality. I think they do, because this is not the first one to come to the same conclusion, and I have yet to see one that would directly contradict it.

reply to post by Frogs


indeed, a week or two ago i was on another thread where it was stated that there are areas in the UK where Sharia has been allowed to take precedence over UK law.. now it has not, and is emminently provable as such.
what has happened is that Sharia mediation over marriage, business, family disputes etc by willing parties has been brought within the Arbitration Act, just as similar mediation by priest, vicars, rabbis, and non religious mediation services is, so no need for the scare stories etc, though ofc they continue to self generate.
i found this on the site of the people who conducted this poll, which as someone not from the US, i fpound most interesting:

Religious Courts and Mediation in the U.S.

Across the United States, religious courts operate on a routine, everyday basis. The Roman Catholic Church alone has nearly 200 diocesan tribunals that handle a variety of cases, including an estimated 15,000 to 20,000 marriage annulments each year.1 In addition, many Orthodox Jews use rabbinical courts to obtain religious divorces, resolve business conflicts and settle other disputes with fellow Jews. Similarly, many Muslims appeal to Islamic clerics to resolve marital disputes and other disagreements with fellow Muslims.

ETA: gah, pressed return too soon.... so it would seem that you already have Sharia Law operating in the US in some way, not so different than in the UK, and yet no one noticed and no harm had been done.

feel free to start frothing at the mouth in 3...2...1

i'm being playful ofc, but you do have Sharia already... thing is, it just aint what you have been told that it is. no doubt soon it will be enshrined in your own legal framework - if jews and christians can have mediation courts, your upholding of freedom would suggest that Muslims can have the same.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by skalla

 

I know a few who study here, but not very deeply. They are the elite, tough. Unless you have spent few years living in an islamic country, outside of a typical tourist locations, and they accepted you, then your opinion will be biased. Even then it may be biased. Id say surveys like these are our best chance to see the big, global picture. Thats assuming that they reflect reality. I think they do, because this is not the first one to come to the same conclusion, and I have yet to see one that would directly contradict it.

so you know a few, but not very deeply and yet you are able to generalise them all as a bunch of religious crazies? have you then spent a few years living in an islamic country as you suggest would be neccessary to form an opinion, in both your own opinion and own words?

also is there anyway that you personally could see to form an opinion on a muslim that is not biased.

after all this, are you so blind that you cannot see your own remarkable level of bias?

can you see how contradictory everything that you have said is?

could you possibly make this any easier for me? i expected more