Official Story or Stories, Timelines & Some Facts - Boston Marathon Bombing

reply to post by soular


I was actually referring to other US Government agencies, not foreign sources; there is nothing which might document that possibility.

Originally posted by NickDC202
reply to post by soular

 

I was actually referring to other US Government agencies, not foreign sources; there is nothing which might document that possibility.

No, of course. Even if the Feds were suspecting Russian spy to have used the Tsarnaev brothers in order to attract International attention on their own domestic problems with real terrorism, The FBI would never make public such evidences, even if they have some.

Originally posted by NickDC202
reply to post by soular

 

I was actually referring to other US Government agencies, not foreign sources; there is nothing which might document that possibility.

I understand you were referring to US agencies, but those methods are not only particular to them. A bunch of other Intelligence Agencies, from Europe, Asia, etc. may be using those type of methods to get to their ends.

Originally posted by soular
...I understand you were referring to US agencies, but those methods are not only particular to them. A bunch of other Intelligence Agencies, from Europe, Asia, etc. may be using those type of methods to get to their ends.

Past the fact that you brought the discussion to life...I further appreciate your participation...as it brings an international perspective to the table that would/could be missed otherwise.
And - this soup has more than 'just a smidgen' of international influence/s in its base.
You seem attuned to some of the Russian/Chechen issues... ...attuned with some degree of passion.
Do you have more than a suspicion that the Russian/Chechen/Muslim-Chechen connection might be the key/source? Or, are you just keeping it in the mix, so as not to be overlooked?

Originally posted by WanDash

Do you have more than a suspicion that the Russian/Chechen/Muslim-Chechen connection might be the key/source? Or, are you just keeping it in the mix, so as not to be overlooked?

First, when it happened, they (Tsarnaev brothers) were caught so fast by the Feds, in 3 days, that I did, indeed, for a couple of days, put on my conspiracy theorist tin foil hat.

But then, seriously thinking, what real advantages Obama and/or the Feds would have to plot such a weak attack? it's not gonna give them an excuse to go to war with any country. And they look like fools now.

The big winner of the Boston Marathon terrorist attack is Putin, or all of those who have fought, alone, against those Chechen radical muslim rebels, while the rest of the world keeps defending as simply as 'insurgents' who are fighting 'for their rights' against 'their Russian oppressor'. But they ARE terrorists and bandits.

So PR wise, the winner is Putin, and it happens that his Intelligence Agency has had already given 'clues' of the dangerousness of the Chechen brothers to both the FBI & the CIA... I think they were trying to attract attention on them first, while probably predicting that the American agencies would not follow their tips. Note that they have not said everything at the time (not revealed the Phone recording of the mother).

Then there is this: link

Bombers’ mystery ‘Chechen’ gym pal
— Tamerlan and Dzhokhar leave gym with Russian-speaking man
— CCTV shows them chatting calmly three days before the blasts

BOSTON bombers Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev are pictured in a gym with a mystery pal — just three days before their horrific attack.
CCTV footage shows them chatting calmly without a hint of the terror that was about to unfold.

John Allan, owner of the Wai Kru gym in the city’s Brighton area, said: “That day, Tamerlan showed up with his brother and his ‘other brother’. “I don’t know who this other guy is. He looked ethnic Chechen to me. He spoke Russian. “I’d never seen him before and the authorities couldn’t find him — even though they were dying to. I’m not sure if they ever did.”

It is not known if this third man is still at large. ...

He[John Allan] had not seen Tamerlan for three months and found out about his final trip to the gym through an email from his manager complaining about the trio’s “disrespectful” behaviour. John said: “It was out of character. But in light of what happened, not that strange.

“I think they came to the gym to make sure they were in shape and ready to go. What’s curious is who’s the third guy and why did they bring him?”

Also, the bombs were small controlled explosions, almost with the intent to kill as less people as possible... And in plain view of lots of people with their cameras, with the Feds holding a drill right besides... As if the mastermind wanted them to get caught in the act.

Originally posted by soular
...First, when it happened, they (Tsarnaev brothers) were caught so fast by the Feds, in 3 days, that I did, indeed, for a couple of days, put on my conspiracy theorist tin foil hat.
...The big winner of the Boston Marathon terrorist attack is Putin, or all of those who have fought, alone, against those Chechen radical muslim rebels, while the rest of the world keeps defending as simply as 'insurgents' who are fighting 'for their rights' against 'their Russian oppressor'. But they ARE terrorists and bandits.
...So PR wise, the winner is Putin, and it happens that his Intelligence Agency has had already given 'clues' of the dangerousness of the Chechen brothers to both the FBI & the CIA...

So -- just to expand on this enough to get a better understanding -- In your knowledge/opinion, the "radical muslim rebel" situation in Chechnya is bad enough that Russia (Putin) would covertly (conspiratorially) stage a "terrorist attack" on U.S. soil...given that they (Russia/Putin) had already offered a "heads up" to the U.S.A. on Tamerlan...to shift some world focus to said "radical muslim rebel" situation...?
And - that he can use the Olympics as an additional incentive?
If you want to just point me to an article or thread or something to answer the next question...that's fine... Otherwise -- How bad is the rebel situation in Chechnya? What is the rebel situation there?

As to the information on the Russian gentleman (*) the brothers were seen with only a few days prior to the bombings -- have you read/heard anymore?
That tale seems very interesting...all things considered.

Originally posted by soular
...Also, the bombs were small controlled explosions, almost with the intent to kill as less people as possible... And in plain view of lots of people with their cameras, with the Feds holding a drill right besides... As if the mastermind wanted them to get caught in the act.

Sorry, I didn't address this...and wanted to.
This goes directly in line with some of my suspicions, as well.

I don't think there is any way to disassociate the brothers from the explosions...
Have you heard/read of any of the younger brother's friends or classmates relating what he was like (or acted like - or said) in the time between the explosions and when the FBI called him one of the suspects?
I have not.
I have heard (and read some) of the supposed Tweets
...BUT...
(and here is my point)...
If you were an innocent bystander (who survived, and did not suffer the tragedy of loss that other bystanders did), who was standing only a few feet (at most) from where the second bomb blew, that day...AND YOU HAPPENED to escape without harm, by the lucky choice to exit quickly, shortly after the first explosion... Wouldn't you be a chatter-box for the next hours and days?
If not from a need for notoriety - then, from the anxiety it would provoke...?
That would send most people (imo) into a nervous frenzy.
Again - imo - the only way you're going to "keep quiet" about being there...and I mean THERE...is...if you don't want anyone to know...you were THERE... ...is if you hope no-one ever finds that...you were THERE.

Now - from that angle, however - one thing we don't know is - WHY was he there?
What you've stated above... ... ...and what you've stated and has been discussed prior in this thread (about the possibility/probability of at least one other accomplice at the race)...speaks of orchestration, & thus, conspiracy...(the tin foil looks great on you!)

Won't go into the possibilities I consider plausible, right here...but, may later.
Thanks.

reply to post by WanDash


Well WanDash, these 2 articles may interest you, one of them is dating from today:

-------------------

The brothers were used
BOSTON FILE. Robert Schaefer: I think Tsarnaev brothers were used
10 May 2013

In view of the murky Boston incident, American portal Salon interviewed a US Army Special Forces Green Beret, Robert W. Schaefer, who has "many years experience planning and executing counterinsurgency and counterterrorism operations in the Caucasus region".

He is the author of the highly-regarded 2011 book "The Insurgency in Chechnya and the North Caucasus: From Gazavat to Jihad".

In his interview Mr. Schaefer said in particular:

"It's not in the best interests of the Caucasus Emirate and Chechen insurgents to have any attack against the United States. While the insurgency there is Islamist, it's first and foremost a nationalist movement seeking independence from Russia. Russia, not the US, is their enemy.

At the start it was a largely nationalist movement seeking to establish an independent Chechen republic with some democratic form of government. Islamists were few. But then the situation changed.

Attacking US doesn't make good sense from their point of view. In fact, Dokku Umarov [leader of the Caucasus Emirate] said recently and very publicly that Chechens fighting in Syria should not be there, but should be home fighting for Chechnya.

You also now get what they call "Chechen ghost" stories. Someone will turn up doing something in an area, and if he speaks Russian, they'll say he's a Chechen. Then media outlets will pick up the rumor and pretty soon everyone thinks Chechens are in the area even if there aren't.

That happens in Afghanistan and Iraq. In Afghanistan, there'd be members of the IMU [Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan] rounded up, and they'd tell people they were Chechens. If you say you're a Chechen, all of a sudden you get lots of extra respect. There were rumors for a while that Osama bin Laden had a personal bodyguard of about 20 Chechens.

Putin's personal reputation owes a lot to the Chechen situation.

It's very hard to see what the point of an attack like the Boston Marathon bombings would be for the North Caucasus insurgency.

As for the Tsarnaev brothers, I think those boys were probably used by somebody. They were probably told they were supporting one cause, and who knows if the people who were using them had anything to do with that cause?"

Department of Monitoring
Kavkaz Center

------------

And a further proof the CIA & FBI suspect something is amiss between the FSB & the CIA concerning the Boston bombing::

link to the article

Report: Moscow spy saga tied to Boston bombings case

...

Regarding the latest incident, the FSB released photos showing Fogle, 29, being handcuffed face down while wearing a blond wig under his baseball cap. It also showed wigs, sunglasses, a Moscow map and packets of Euros allegedly in Fogle's possession.

In addition, the security service released a letter that Fogle was allegedly carrying that purportedly spelled out the terms of the CIA's recruitment effort, including a promise of $100,000 for discussing future cooperation and up to $1 million a year for providing information.

Kommersant quoted the sources as saying the Americans apparently got the phone numbers of Russian anti-terrorism officials during meetings about the April 15 Boston bombings.

Two suspects in the Boston Marathon attack, Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, lived in the Boston area, but were born in Russia and had moved with their parents to the United States.

Tamerlan, 26, was killed during a police shootout three days after the bombing. Dzhokhar, 19, was wounded in the operation and was later captured. He has been charged in the bombings and is being held at a prison medical center.

Last year, when Tamerlan took a six-month trip to the Russian republic of Dagestan, where he parents had once again re-settled, Russian officials twice exchanged messages with first the FBI, then the CIA, inquiring about Tamerlan and any possible ties to extremists.

The FBI met with Tamerlan but determined that he was not a terror threat. The U.S. sought to find out why the Russians were inquiring about Tamerlan, but received no additional information from the Russians, according to U.S. officials.

During his trip to Russia, Tamerlan spent most of his time in Dagestan, where his parents were living, and Chechnya.

After the bombings, U.S. diplomats and FBI agents from Moscow traveled to Makhachkala, capital of Dagestan, to interview Anzor and Zubeidat Tsarnaev, the suspects' parents. It was not clear from the Kommersant report whether Fogle was one of the diplomats.

The newspaper reported that the American side sought to take advantage of their meetings with Russian anti-terrorism forces "to establish personal contacts" in an effort to bypass bureaucratic delays that often crop up through normal channels.

The newspaper said Fogle allegedly called one senior Russian intelligence official -- the alleged recruitment target -- twice on a cellphone "persistently seeking a personal meeting." It was during a purported meeting that Fogle was detained.

The newspaper noted that the Russian Foreign Ministry, in announcing Fogle's expulsion, made reference to the cooperation between the two countries over terrorism.

"While our two presidents reaffirmed their readiness to expand bilateral cooperation, including through intelligence agencies in the fight against international terrorism, such provocative actions in the spirit of the Cold War did not contribute to the strengthening of mutual trust," the Foreign Ministry statement said.

U.S. Ambassador Michael McFaul was summoned Wednesday to the Foreign Ministry, which said it handed him a formal protest over the incident. McFaul spent about a half-hour at the ministry and left without speaking to journalists.

The State Department confirmed that Fogle worked as an embassy employee but would give no details about his job. The CIA declined comment, the AP reported.

Contributing: Associated Press.

BOSTON FILE. Robert Schaefer: I think Tsarnaev brothers were used 10 May 2013

[.....]

As for the Tsarnaev brothers, I think those boys were probably used by somebody. They were probably told they were supporting one cause, and who knows if the people who were using them had anything to do with that cause?"

Department of Monitoring Kavkaz Center

Report: Moscow spy saga tied to Boston bombings case

A U.S. diplomat was expelled for allegedly trying to recruit a senior Russian anti-terrorism official.

The U.S. diplomat expelled for allegedly spying for the CIA was trying to recruit a senior Russian intelligence officer involved with fighting terrorism in the North Caucasus, the region linked to the suspects in the Boston bombing case, the Russian newspaper Kommersan reported, quoting Russian security service sources.

The Russian Foreign Ministry declared Ryan Fogle, a third secretary in the U.S. Embassy's political section, persona non grata on Wednesday and ordered him to leave the country. He was detained by officers of the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) Monday night.

Kommersant, quoting "participants of the special operation," said Fogle "was trying to recruit an FSB officer in charge of the fight against terrorism in the North Caucasus."

www.usatoday.com...

Thanks for all the info, soular - I will probably respond to this in bits & pieces...after some of it has had time to sink in...
To begin...

Originally posted by soular
...Last year, when Tamerlan took a six-month trip to the Russian republic of Dagestan, where he parents had once again re-settled, Russian officials twice exchanged messages with first the FBI, then the CIA, inquiring about Tamerlan and any possible ties to extremists.

The FBI met with Tamerlan but determined that he was not a terror threat. The U.S. sought to find out why the Russians were inquiring about Tamerlan, but received no additional information from the Russians, according to U.S. officials.
...

It seems that I've heard numerous sources claim that the FBIs involvement with Tamerlan extended much further back (like 2+ years)...but, here... here ...what are we to make of this?
The timeline of what is stated, above...seems "off".
It would seem apparent that "The FBI" didn't meet with Tamerlan while he was in Russia.
And - if the Russian officials were concerned about Tamerlan, while he was on Russian soil...why didn't they press the issue with him...there?
If the FBI met with Tamerlan...it would have been within one year of the Boston Marathon Bombing/s...
What color of ineptitude does that paint the FBI with?
What??? Are these Agencies more interested in developing spies (at huge costs, if the allegations are true) in Russia (foreign nations) than protecting those within the borders of the USA?
To me - there is NOTHING about the scheme for the bombings (Boston Marathon) that looks like "brilliance". Nothing terribly covert about the way the brothers entered the scene (just in time)...meandered about...carried large backpacks...one was absolutely visible RIGHT WHERE a bomb exploded...IN NUMEROUS video shots and independent (*) camera photos... Yet - Tamerlan was witty enough to quell the FBI's doubts about his motivations...even after the Alert from Russia...?
This is the kind of ineptitude (if all is as has been represented, above) that results in cleaning-house, and re-filling all empty seats with a new bunch/batch...including those that hire & fire.

See if I can update the “Official Stories, etc…” portion of this thread…a little bit.

As is obvious to anyone reading through the various threads that continue to pop up, as various additional tidbits of information come to light (factual or otherwise), there is still a lot of dis-information lodged in a lot of people’s minds with regard to some aspects…and, I’m guessing that it’s either obvious they have not bothered to “look for the facts”, or…simply didn’t consider this thread worthy a gander.

In any case, I will begin with one fact that has already been discussed in this thread, in hope of putting one fallacy to rest…being, the continued streaming comment of –
“I’m still waiting for the video footage that shows the brothers setting their backpacks down.”

Some in Official capacities, may have, at some time/s, stated that the FBI has such footage in possession, but…when the FBI gave their statement of facts, regarding the Criminal Complaint against the younger Tsarnaev brother…they hedged, and did not claim that their video footage showed the younger Tsarnaev placing his backpack on the ground…but rather,
“…he can be seen apparently slipping his knapsack onto the ground. A photograph taken from the opposite side of the street shows the knapsack on the ground…” at his feet.
In an article in The Washington Times, dated Sunday, April 21, 2013, Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick is quoted, saying –
“It does seem pretty clear that this suspect took the backpack off, put it down… It’s pretty clear…”.
(article referenced here: www.jimstonefreelance.com... )

So – there you have the FBI (filing a Criminal Complaint) and the Massachusetts Governor (assuring the public that “they have the right guy” in custody…and everyone can return to their lives as usual…) refusing to state that the video evidence shows ‘Tsarnaev placing the backpack on the ground.
One (the Complaint) says – “apparently”…the other (Governor) says “seems pretty clear”.
In such capacities, one would not use this kind of language, if it was “undeniable, obvious, or irrefutable”.
This is the kind of language used to ensure that the “allegation” cannot be dismantled (thus tainting the remaining testimony), and the “case” resulting in “Case Dismissed”.

Don’t know that this explanation will make any difference to anyone…but, it’s here, should anyone care (or discuss – which I am just as open to).

Another aspect of the tale/story has come to light in recent days…that we will look at, next.

The younger Tsarnaev apparently owned (or, possessed) a white Mercedes wagon. This “wagon” was apparently in a Somerville, Massachusetts auto body shop, for repairs at the time of the bombing/s.
The day after the bombing/s, Dzhokhar’ showed up at the shop asking to take the vehicle without the repairs (presumably, the repairs hadn’t been completed/done yet).
The shop owner described him as “nervous, biting his nails”, and further stated that his “demeanor…made (the owner) wonder if he might be on drugs”.

Don’t know about you, but…that’s interesting to me.
What? Do you think it logical to presume that he (with his brother), planned the bombings in advance, and failed to consider that the car might not be ready…the day after?

Let’s see – I have a vehicle in a body shop… I want to get it out of the body shop… But – it has not been repaired… What do I do? “When can you have it ready?” – I would ask.
But – NO – waiting for it to be repaired is not on his agenda…

HOW COULD HE/(THEY?) HAVE BEEN BLIND-SIDED by this…?
If he was expecting to use it…to “get away”…you’d think he would have called ahead of time…
Maybe he did. Maybe he called Thursday…or Friday…and was told “we’re waiting on a part that should be in this afternoon”…and assumed that it would be ready by Tuesday.
It was not, however, repaired (or – not fully repaired – cannot discern by the language of the “testimony”)…and he says – “Can I take it, ANYWAY?”

If we take the allegations (of the FBI) as fact…that TOTALLY suggests that he was expecting it would be available for immediate use.
And that…he wanted to use it…to get away (he had another vehicle at his disposal – being a green Honda).
So – Does this make sense to you?

Why show up, somewhere that you’re not expected…the day after you commit an atrocious act of terror…and do something this “suspicious”? …something to draw attention to yourself…?
Supposedly, he did nothing between the time of the bombings and “when” the FBI told the public that he was a suspect…to make his friends suspicious.
…
If that’s true…why this act of intrigue?

(to be continued)