A Dark Time in History

Why are there no documents from the first century?

We have an important time in history when the world was changing dramatically... Yet even the existing fragments and texts we do have from the bible do not come from the first century.

The scripture we have comes from the early second century, which have been copied from earlier texts... Thus we can say that we have "evidence" that certain texts existed around the first century. While this is true, we have nothing from the first century... NOTHING!!?!?!

My question is why?

100 years of history lost to time or corruption of "spiritual leaders"?

In my previous thread which I just finished, there is a lost text called The book of Elxai... there is some evidence that shows this book to be from the late first century... perhaps even the early second... This book was destroyed by the church around 1400...

This is evidence of either the church intentionally hiding certain texts... or corruption within the church in my humble opinion.

What information didn't they want released?

How is it possible that there is no writing that came from the first century?

Is it possible that all texts from that time period were simply lost to the ravages of time... or is it something a little more sinister?

The first century was a time when there were people alive that had a direct connection to the most important historical figure in all of our species history... that being Jesus...

I can only assume that texts from that time would have been preserved because of said persons importance... yet nothing has survived

Does anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

Any theories?

Well, since the Earth is only 6,000 years old, books from 2,013 years ago would be pretty ancient!



On a serious note...It's a question worth looking into. For the most part we seem to rely on Roman/Greek literature for most of the historical accounts. The Romans had some pretty good historians...

Well the way I see it, the Christian leaders at the time determined that the texts written during that time didn't acquiesce to their worldview and either buried them or had them destroyed. It all comes back to control. How else can the Vatican be one of the wealthiest entities on the planet yet preach abstinence of worldly possessions?

Lets ask Enoch or Eziekiel, there both time travelers in the bible, yet they never died in it either.

The authorship of the New Testament books have been discovered. For years, the book "The True Authorship of the New Testament" has been out and many persons have been discovering this as well.

what more do you need?

A lot of books have been destroyed by fire, wars, age.

reply to post by Akragon

The scripture we have comes from the early second century, which have been copied from earlier texts... Thus we can say that we have "evidence" that certain texts existed around the first century. While this is true, we have nothing from the first century... NOTHING!!?!?!

Wasn't there any trading with China in or before the first century? I've heard that China had already developed a written language by this time. Seems like they'd have SOMETHING on the goings on in other countries. Yes? No?

reply to post by jiggerj


Actually if you read the link in the other thread I just wrote on the book of Elxai... There seems to be some information related to Buddhism...

reply to post by Akragon

I've always loved the tale that Jesus, when he disappeared for a while, visited India and it was many of the ideas he picked up there which he brought back and modified for Jewish tastes.

Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
reply to post by Akragon

 

I've always loved the tale that Jesus, when he disappeared for a while, visited India and it was many of the ideas he picked up there which he brought back and modified for Jewish tastes.

Then you should like my thread on that topic...

The lost years of Jesus

Thanks for your reply my friend

Well the Christians were persecuted in Rome with the first documented case in 64ad under Nero and lasted until 313 when Constantine 1 came to power and legalized Christianity.
A lot of their writings, if any, were most likely destroyed.

reply to post by Akragon


we assume that was an important time in history..stuff gets destroyed either by the hands of people or by nature...we don't know if that was a crucial time in history...for all we know we could have been wiped out as a species only to start again several times over...we find today cities on top of cities (stone and very primitive) but we are still finding stuff...I'm sure religion played some part during the crusades but the religioius reach across the globe was not that big..

As Banquo said

Well the Christians were persecuted in Rome with the first documented case in 64ad under Nero and lasted until 313 when Constantine 1 came to power and legalized Christianity.

This is quite correct, and in 382 Saint Jerome began translation for his Latin Bible that became known as the Vulgate (common) bible. The Vulgate was translated directly from ancient Aramaic, Greek and Hebrew texts and was the standard interpretation for well over 1000 years.

This copy is from my private collection and is dated 1667, by this time this particular Vulgate was banned.
But I am unsure wether it was a local ban in France or something much wider.


To find older texts from the bible you would need to look at the Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic texts.

reply to post by Akragon

"My question is why? What information didn't they want released?"

Lost, hidden, forgotten, stolen, and/or destroyed knowledge initiated the rise of various 'TPTB' groups and individuals.

The libraries of Alexandria, Timbuktu, Constantinople, and nearly every Native (North and South) American written tradition was targetted for destruction. Additionally, there were forced conversions of Natives, Africans, Australian Aborigines, and other people still holding on to ancient traditions, oral teachings, customs, and understandings. All in the guise of "civilization" and "modernization".


Knowledge is power. Take away the knowledge and the people will be easier to control, manipulate, and influence. Various sciences, neuro-understandings, and psychology were used to empower the priesthood and mysteries, while oppressing the average-common people.

We all know history, hisstory, his story. The holders of knowledge were in a position to rewrite history as they saw fit.


In my opinion, they are trying to hide a history full of science. A history where mankind was civilized and scientifically understood in ancient prehistoric times. A catastrophe occurred that nearly caused our extinction. We used to be smart, we all died, we became cavemen and had to start over. Various 'TPTB' groups and individuals hide this history, and have hidden the sciences and understandings for centuries. Hidden for the purpose of mental stagnation and control.

I am thankful to be here in this age of information

It is only my opinion, of course. But I have long thought it possible, the Catholic church was given the job of erasing, and rewriting history from its inception. However, the manuscripts you refer to could very well still exist. Though you and I will probably never see them.

reply to post by Akragon


I have a book of 1st to 4th century burial inscriptions from Ancient Rome, and those that bear Christian indicators paint a picture of a religion that had vast appeal amongst the poor and disaffected in the early days. Towards the end of that period, some of the inscriptions become more elaborate, pertain to the upper classes of Roman society, but prior to that, they all, almost exclusively, referring to slaves and household servants. They are discrete also, often just the acrostic fish or the palm branch indicating their following. By the fourth century, the grave markers that invoke Christ are more frequent, more elaborate, showing a clear change in the demographic of followers.

In short, there are no documents, because there was no need for any. The initial followers were, largely illiterate, or too poor or dispossessed to own manuscripts. The teachings were communicated verbally for the most part, unless those teachings hit the radar of the literate classes, as we know they did on occasion through anecdotal references. For Christianity to have taken the hold that it did, there must have been numerous teachers/preachers, with varying methodology of deliverance, given the specific needs to their audiences, however, when the need arose to produce a written record, because that is what literate people do, only a few versions were accessible, and those versions of events became narrower and narrower as time progressed resulting in a failure to meet the myriad needs of the audiences.

Two excellent books on the subject;

The First Christians in their Social Worlds by Philip F Esler and Women and Religion in the First Christian Centuries by Deborah F Sawyer...bring together the scholarship that has been undertaken on the subject and analysis of the canonical texts in drawing light to that period. Also, the letters Paul too provide a valuable source in understanding the nature of Christianity at that time, and his active mediation between the literate and illiterate classes. He utilises many references to the Old Testament to communicate a shared commonality between those who follow Christ, and Judaism in an attempt to forge mutual respect. I know that many have difficulty with Paul, I personally don't consider him a teacher, so much as a diplomat for Christianity, I find his letters hugely insightful and helpful in that respect.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Oh just a lot of early Christians were literate and schooled. Stephen, Mathew, Mark, Luke, Paul, Apollos, Timothy, Titus and a host of others. Plenty of literates at Rome, Corinth, Ephesus, ect. Most of the Christians at these churches could read. In fact the large body of gnostic writings indicate an attraction by the literate and the philosophical.

reply to post by Logarock


But what of their followers? I don't dispute that it is possible or even probable that the teachers were literate, but what good is the written word when those you wish to reach, and heal, are illiterate? If the 'word' was disseminated verbally, there was no need to write it down, except amongst themselves, which narrows down the possibility of documents being preserved and/or read outside of the immediate circle.

reply to post by Akragon

The fact that they were all written on papyrus is such an obvious explanation that no other is really necessary.
Papyrus is not a long-lasting material, especially when exposed to water (that's why the best finds of papyrus are buried in the Egyptian sands).

The thing to observe is the shortage of ALL manuscripts of this period.
Not just "Gnostic texts" but copies of Biblical books.
Not just religious material, but secular stuff, like histories and plays.
That's exactly what you would expect if they were all being written on perishable material.

If the nefarious activities of the church had anything to do with it, they would hardly be destroying their own manuscripts along with the rest.
Things written in the ancient world tend not to survive in original copies; what texts we have are available to us because of a tradition of re-copying.

reply to post by Akragon


The true history of the 1st Century is there, but it is hidden. It is no accident that two key sources of 1st Century history have names that suggest silence-Tacitus and Tranquillus. And when the historian Josephus talks about building “walls” around cities in Galilee and being opposed by a Roman commander named Placidus, he is not talking about military actions. (The "tomb" only looked empty.)

From my interpretations of Biblical and non-Biblical allegory I have discovered a far different history of the 1st Century from the one we were fed. Christianity began as a form of Gnosticism founded by the one Josephus identifies as "Judas". In order to tell this story as completely as possible through the use of allegory, Josephus broke it up into three key pieces. Each piece is connected to each other by the repetition of the name “Judas” along with a geographic name present in the next link of the chain.

"Judas, the son of Sepphoris..." Book 1, Chapter 33 paragraph 1
"In Sepphoris also, a city of Galilee, there was one Judas..." Book 2, Chapter 4 Paragraph 1
"...a certain Galilean, whose name was Judas..." Book 2, Chapter 8, Paragraph 1

Those that are familiar with Kabbalah should have no difficulty seeing the metaphoric significance of “Sepphoris” and the literal world recognizes the significance of Galilee. The first link in this chain corresponds to Matthew’s version of the Birth of Christ before the death of Herod, while the third link corresponds to Luke’s version during the “census”.

The identification of “God” with the “Word” in John 1:1 and idea of the “Word” made “flesh” in John 1:14 are the closest to the literal truth that the Bible comes. If you look at surviving Gnostic texts it appears that they were playing games with words. These games had real purpose. They defined metaphors in relation to other metaphors.

In the Gnostic text, The Tripartite Trac (chapter 15), we find this discussion of “baptism”:

"The baptism which we previously mentioned is called 'garment of those who do not strip themselves of it,' for those who will put it on and those who have received redemption wear it. It is also called 'the confirmation of the truth which has no fall.' In an unwavering and immovable way it grasps those who have received the restoration while they grasp it. (Baptism) is called "silence" because of the quiet and the tranquility."

So, if the “silence” suggested by the 1st Century writers Tacitus and Tranquillus is intentional, then we have in their writings an indication of the real meaning of “baptism”. (Also, this can be viewed as indicating that "water" is related to "writings" so the "miracles" of "walking on water" and "turning water into wine" can be partially understood.)

This allegoric code that was the subject of the Gnostic “religion” had already been around for perhaps as much as a thousand years by the time the 1st Century and it was employed in many cultures as the basis for various religions as well as Greek Philosophy. The Gnostics went too far in their discussions and caused an “apocalypse” (uncovering) which was metaphorically represented by the crucifixion of the “Word”. Part of the effort to fix things included a massive effort to destroy documents related to the Gnostics, while others worked to change Christianity from within by altering their interpretations to a less damaging form (like those of Philo who made "wine" from the "water") and creating a false story about Christianity’s origin.