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Higher Consumption Taxes Could Save the US Economy.

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posted on May, 1 2013 @ 11:17 AM
I may be mistaken on this, but it is my understanding that the EU tax system is the reason the US became the US in the firts place. It may have not been the exact same taxes but the idea that less taxes allowed for more economic freedom as well growth to small buisness and self reliance.

The system has been on a decline since people began looking to the government to regulate and provide for them. Dont get me wrong i think the entire tax system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, such as replacing certain taxes with a new form of taxation, but adding new ones on top of what we already have is not the answer.

posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:45 AM
reply to post by TexasSeabee

Small business argument is very invalid, as when we look at statistics, then US has the lowest small business sector among OECD countries. Same goes for middle-sized businesses, although a whopping 52,7% of American people work for large businesses and corporations.

posted on May, 2 2013 @ 07:19 AM

Originally posted by charles1952
Interesting thinking, cabin. You should probably carry it further, though.
Let's say we take umptygazillion dollars out of the economy, then the government spends umptygazillion dollars on the economy. We're back where we started, except for the time and money spent accounting for the new taxes and the related forms. Wait, there's one other difference. Now the government has the money to spend the way they want to, and the people don't have it to spend the way they want to. I don't see any good here.

I agree a system like that needs less wasting. It has lots of potential although everything depends on the decisions of the government. In my country, also lots of spending is happening, although much less than in US, so at the moment, I am pretty much happy with it.The system is more transparent though.

Originally posted by charles1952
Another avenue for you to explore is what happens when you add an additional sales tax to everything? People buy less, as you said. But if fewer products are being bought, we need fewer people to make them. Hello, higher unemployment.

It has not happened in EU countries. Most of the production is outsourced anyways, so big corporations are losing more than local ones. More jobs are in the service sector anyways. US is the highest in the world, with 79,2% of jobs in the service sector. People still buy, although they think more before buying on average and spend less on things they do not need. It does not consumption that much.

Just to add an additional thought, since you're talking about the benefits the Nordic countries have, I went to the OECD (Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development. They have something called a "better life index." It ranks the countries involved by eleven factors, including Civic Engament, Housing, Health, Income, Safety, you know the kind of thing. The top six countries are interesting. Yes, you can find the Nordic countries of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. Also in the top six are Canada, US, and Australia. I think Americans can be satisfied.

Better Life Index Click the "by rank" at the bottom left of the chart.

Nordic Model- Next Supermodel?

Environmental/ Sustainability rankings:

Democracy rankings:

Education rankings:

"Happiness" rankings:

Prosperity rankings:

Satisfaction with life index:

Health rankings (by deaths):

Health system rankings:

Global competitiveness:

Crime Index by country:

Small/Middle/Large business sectors in OECD:

Personal Freedom rankings:

Economic "stability"/risk ratings.

I am not trying to brind down US image or something. I have lived in several countries all across Europe, also 4 months in USA. To be honest,based on personal experience, Nordic countries have been the best so far considering all kinds of things, mostly subjective though. When we take the strength of education into account for example, then US might rank quite high. The public school system sucks, but the universties are strong, although they are costly and not everybody can afford them.

I am not some envornmental activist or something, although I personally like to be environmentally more friendly. The extreme consuming, wasting was very disturbing. Also in many places I noticed there is nearly impossible to use your feet or bicycle. I rode a bicycle, I got sweared at, screamed at so much by drivers, although I was as on the side as possible. The walking roads were nearly impossible to use as the sprinklers were working pretty much 24/7 and no bicycle roads. The air quality was very low compared to here. I just saw that I had no actual freedom there in there to live healthily at normal costs as I had elsewhe

Thank You for your post, it had interesting points.

Btw. Suicide rates have other reasons. The depressing climate, the too strong feminism all that contributes a lot in Nordic
edit on 2-5-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 2 2013 @ 07:28 AM
No amount of taxes will save the economy. That goes for all nations with a private central bank issuing currency at interest. It's so simple to understand, that from the moment that first note is issued at interest and put into circulation, that there is then not enough to pay off the principal and interest on it. Therefore, as the principal increases, so does the interest.
It can only ever lead to spiraling debt and seizure of peoples money, in a futile attempt to pay off the bankers, for whom other peoples misery provides the almost sexual gratification they crave in their quest for global domination and power through financial control. Money is everything to them and they crave it just as much as a heroin addict craves their next hit, and bugger the consequences!

posted on May, 2 2013 @ 08:17 AM
reply to post by dogstar23

I understand your points. Yes, GDP to debt ratio is better in US than in several other countries. Although the total sum is larger. Although looking at recent statistics, the debt is increasing incredily fast compared to countries with more debt, so that the total amoun might soon become larger, unless something is done. 901 billion dollars in deficit this year, is about 6-7% added to debt to GDP ratio, which is a lot. If it continues for 3-4 years (similar one), soon US will have nearly 100% of debt to GDP ratio, which is much higher than in most OECD countries, considering that every country in EU who has/is in economical crisis has over 100% ratio. About 90% is the one, where it starts to affect economy more and more, studies show.

About wasting. I should not have put pets there sorry. I had read an article about spring fashion for pets and for some reason I associated it with these statistics. Of course some % of it has some pointless wasting like clothes for pets, althoughly mostly spending on pets is nothing bad.

About cars. I dislike too many cars personally. Working is one thing, although when living in US I saw too much of people using cars for short trips. I personally only use car if the trip is over 10 miles... Up to that it is easy to use my bicycle. A one-mile trip is just 10 minutes of walking or even less. Not worth it. When working I noticed nearly everybody using cars to get to work, even people who lived nearby the office. I lived about 5 miles, one of the furthest. Every day I took a bike. It does not take much time to drive 5 miles, it doesnt break a sweat
So I can not get such attitude... and see it as wasting gas...

I have to admit though that public transport system in US is nearly inexistent /very weak, especially in not-so-big cities. Also the amount of bike roads, pedestrian roads is weaker. In the area I lived there was no bicycle roads, I was cursed at so many times, although I did not directly affect anybody, drove as in side of the road as possible. The sprinklers were working all day long (most of the day) across the pedestrian roads, so that side was a nightmare, at least compared to most EU countries. In most countries in EU, public transport system is very strong and costs much less than driving a car, so expecially lower class usually uses public transport as means of transportation to work.

One thing I can not understand to be honest.

Nearly everything is US, especially foods, clothes, tech cost much less than in EU. Your salaries though (as there are less taxes), are much higher. I dont get how come so many people still have financial problems?
Even with the insurances and rent, I wouldnt get how can one be in financial trouble, if earning around 500 bucks a week (which is less than average salary in US). Sorry, but for me it just seems as poor financial intelligence and spending too much on impulsive decisions.

In a way it is similar here. Of course, many people earn less than 1k euros (1300 dollars a month) (with 2x the prices of US at least on consumer stuff), although most people are doing very poorly. I personally earn 3x the average salary here (to be honest it is similar to most of the government
The senate salary is about 70k-80k, same for government a year), I earn about 50k, although I spend about 10k-20k in a year for living. Everything else I invest (at least 30% in a year, other goes to travel or trainings. To be honest. I cant get how people who earn 1300 a month have financial troubles, especially younger people, who do not have families yet. I live in the central of the city, where the rent prices are higher than elsewhere. I eat organic food mostly, buy quality clothes (not designer, qualityn which is not cheap). I go to theatre, cinema a lot. I go to parties a lot, am a smoker and yet my spendings are not that high. Financial intelligence should be taught to people

Wow, CK jeans lasting 3 years, thats nice
Here the materials are probably worse
My CKs I bought couple of years ago, wore out in about 4 months
. I personally prefer Pepe Jeans, G-Star Raw jeans. These are above the average price, although the best material and nice looks

posted on May, 2 2013 @ 01:12 PM
reply to post by Cabin

Actually i think it is valid, me being a small buisness owner. As taxes have increased on the buisness side the number small business has decreased. It is easier to work for someone that has the resources to navigate through tax laws than it is to stay up all night balancing books and paying "the Man". And do you know where big buisnesses come from? at one point they were small buisnesses that became very successful. And as for your statistics where does the other half of the country work? Lets say a store has 80 employees and i only have three, obviously they employ more people than i do but what bearing does that have on the argument that higher taxes promote buisness growth?

But that is neither here nor there since my comments about the growth of small buisness was refering to formation of the country and the break away from the taxation from britain.

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