Behaviorism's Shortfalls

Although I really do like behaviorism, which is the psychological field that simply studies behaviors instead of what someone is thinking. I really do like this area of study, but I think it is the root cause of a lot of problems in today's society!

Wikipedia: Behaviorism

The primary tenet of behaviorism, as expressed in the writings of John B. Watson, B. F. Skinner, and others, is that psychology should concern itself with the observable behavior of people and animals, not with unobservable events that take place in their minds.[2] The behaviorist school of thought maintains that behaviors as such can be described scientifically without recourse either to internal physiological events or to hypothetical constructs such as thoughts and beliefs.[3]

Behaviorism and Autism

I don't think the pharmaceutical industry knows what it is doing. I think it does know what it is doing from a behaviorist standpoint, and is super successful at it, but if I had to guess, it would probably be the influence of behaviorism (which I do like) and the idea they came up with that the mind was something that cannot be explored, and to only look at what can be measured, that frustrates people who take medicine, confuses them, etc.

Note: This could help people who take medicine calm down if they realize this

For example, with an autistic person, the psychiatrists are interested in modifying behavior and think the autistic person is "wrong" and don't even bother understanding that the person has access to a different realm. So then, the scientists try to modify behavior and end up keeping the autistic person from being who they wish to be and experiencing what they wish to experience.

To the behaviorists, he or she looks rehabilitated, when in reality, they are kind of agitated and confused because they lost access to their realm of logic and their hobbies and their autistic friends.

So the behaviorists are like "Oh, he is angry, he needs more medicines" when the autistic person is really agitated because he wanted to be autistic and hang out with other autistic friends, or at least people that share interests with him, and do activities because it is fun and he likes it.

But the behaviorists are like "Ohnono, take these meds."

So they give him lots of sedatives. And this causes some confusion for the autistic person.

I can guarantee you this is how autism works, it's just that people who haven't experienced it don't believe it. Most people are like "That person is different" but don't bother even wondering what the person thinks like, especially behaviorists, obviously, since this is their core tenet.

They might talk in baby talk or whatever to the person, but the person they are talking to is quite aware, just of a different reality. In which they CAN communicate with other autistic people over similar interests, if the interests are the same. And they can communicate with the logical realm.

Note: If you are a normal person trying to communicate with an autistic person, try doing it over something logical :-) Video games, music, routines, etc. Also, try planning things with them!

But the psychiatrists are normal people, usually, and therefore see interactions where the autistic person isn't on the same plane as them. So they say things like eye contact isn't made.

But autistic people on the same plane with someone else DO give eye contact to each other, or at least to a normal person who takes the time to understand them.

Source: Personal Experience


Behaviorists and Religion

So where does all of the tension between atheists and religious people come from? The same place, really. Atheists are heavily influenced by behaviorists, apparently, because instead of wondering how the mechanisms of religion and a God work (as they obviously do work) they choose to think it doesn't exist.

So this is what I do - I assume God doesn't exist, and then look at religion, and I think to myself, "Wow, that's strange. How is this working?" And then I research it by immersing myself in religious culture. If God isn't real, what is the purpose of a God in a religion? Questions like that.

That is a completely different approach than dismissing religious people as "nuts" or pretending they don't exist.

Does this non-behaviorism approach have applications? Of course it does! Behaviorism is awesome, but it simply isn't going to work with religious or autistic people who are operating on a different level as easily.

So the behaviorists notice the religious people are acting strangely, getting violent. Do they understand why? Of course not! They don't do that! So they try to change the behavior, using the methods they usually use on normal people, but it doesn't work!

Instead of thinking "Oh, there are more processes going on here that maybe we should look into and see how they work scientifically" the behaviorists keep on trying the same thing!

And then when things continue to not work, you know, we can get stuff like martial law and terrorists on the other side, all that stuff.

I'm just saying, it's applicable towards helping out autistic people and religious people and also easing tensions as well as even helping atheists and behaviorists work with people like that easier.

Sounds a bit like from David Brin "Existence". I doubt that autist people have access to a special "realm" - in my opinion, they are experiencing just a small fraction of that what "normal" people are using as a normal environment. Autists are crippled, in my opinion.

But, as there are only limited ways to compare those views on reality, I might as well be wrong. Could some autist try to describe that special realm in comparison to the environment taken in from her/his senses?

reply to post by ManFromEurope


Thanks for replying to my thread, I appreciate anyone who does, even though they are often obscure threads I enjoy the conversation and discussion more than trying to push a viewpoint.

The way you look at it is valid - a high-functioning autistic person works a bit differently, for example, they might like routines and eat the same food every day. So it seems like they are limited to certain functions (assuming that everyone develops functions for all kinds of things).

However, on their special interests, they develop ridiculous amounts of complex functions. I think the complexity and obscurity of these thought processes keeps them from interacting with others on the same page as them, which in turn keeps them from getting outside feedback on that and grounding them.

I think the grounding would help them come back to reality a bit, but that requires someone to enter their mind-space. Which is basically a bunch of thoughts that haven't been gone over and checked for errors.

A fully autistic person, I believe, might be stuck using a few basic functions.

That's the best I can say... here.

Wikipedia - Autism

Autism is a disorder of neural development characterized by impaired social interaction and communication, and by restricted and repetitive behavior.

I know that autistic people think in pictures.

Originally posted by ManFromEurope
Sounds a bit like from David Brin "Existence". I doubt that autist people have access to a special "realm" - in my opinion, they are experiencing just a small fraction of that what "normal" people are using as a normal environment. Autists are crippled, in my opinion.

But, as there are only limited ways to compare those views on reality, I might as well be wrong. Could some autist try to describe that special realm in comparison to the environment taken in from her/his senses?

I work with autistic children, and my son is autistic as well.

Autism is considered a spectrum disorder. In other words, one can be severely autistic (total non-verbal, etc) to "high-functioning" (Asperger's and PDD-NOS).

Autistic children and adults, especially those on the higher end of the spectrum, really do think differently. Check out Temple Gandin as an excellent example of this. She's autistic, but managed to take how she views things and apply that to the agricultural field and became an expert in animal behavior. She's written several bestsellers and I think even has a Phd (not positive about that though).

Autism is a fairly new diagnosis. My guess, if we went back in time, we'd find a lot of history's greatest thinkers, painters, writers, and mystics were somewhere on the spectrum.

reply to post by smyleegrl


That's what I think as well! And yeah, I own Temple Granden's books already. Pretty much all of my friends are autistic, and so are my parents and most of my relatives, so if you want any tips on communication with your son let me know - I literally didn't meet any non-autistic people until college, and it is debatable whether or not I'm autistic, because it is possible I just took on their traits, or maybe I'm growing out of it? Hard to diagnose myself I think.

reply to post by ManFromEurope


Some autistic person should explain what they think like ! :-)
I don't know if I am or not!

I find them to be receptive to:
*Planning
*Structure
*Don't be afraid of direct confrontation, always explain what you are thinking / your reasoning
*If they are being argumentative, no big deal, just explain things in cause and effect terms, and use sources to back up what you are saying (if what you are saying makes no sense, maybe it is a sign of cultural brainwashing!)
*Logic! This means interacting on the cultural plane with them, don't gossip or be boring, engage with them in activities...?

Ways to Interact:
*Play a game. Board games like Risk, Axis and Allies, Civilization - autistic people interact on the plane of ideas. So join them there. Talk about it, get into it with them.
*Plan a project: Autistic people love projects and plans. If they are spouting off ideas, then write them down and help them take action! Have fun it's awesome!

*Interact over an activity: Something like music works, for example. Learn to play guitar and bass and talk about it and the plans for the song you are writing. Buy some cheap recording equipment. Etc. It's fun! It's always fun. You just have to know how to do it.

There's no need to hold back... there's no need to hide any part of yourself... there's no need to lie... there's no need to fear having fun... autistic people are awesome.

A hundred stars for that post, Darkbake.

My son is 9, has "ASD" and you are dead on with those tips.

His language is music and science and logic.



I play guitar and give him a topic and he makes up and sings songs.

He went from wanting to know where his food went,

to learning molecular biology and ATP synthesis...



Tfw.