Sometimes I wonder about the Trinitarian view.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I just realized something, if the Son and the Father are not the same entity then why did Jesus say that he and the Father were One? That's basically saying the Son and the Father are the same, which the Trinity contradicts.

One mind brother... He said he does the will of the Father...

And the deeds he does were not him, but the Father within him...

Jesus is the essence of the Father just as any child is the essence of his/her parents...

reply to post by AllGloryIsGods


Dear AllGloryIsGods,

A very long time ago my father and his mother in law got into an argument over the "virgin birth". She said it was impossible to have a virgin birth. Today we have many of them, we call them artificial insemination are even test tube babies. Would you deny that people can have babies even if they have not had sex? For thousand of years people made a big deal about the virgin birth, turns out it was not that complicated after all.

Liquid water, water vapor and ice are all water; but, expressing themselves in different ways and each with unique properties. Ice does not cease being water just because it is cold; but, when it is cold it does not act the same as when it is hot. If God is the sentience of the universe, all knowing then would he interact with us in the flesh the same as he would in the spirit? When the spirit of God interacted with the Jews in the desert while Moses was with them, they rejected interacting with him directly. When he interacted with them in the form of a human, they killed him. They treated him differently depending on the form he took, they began with fear and worked up into hate. They changed, he did not. This is a way to understand the trinity.

Here is the bigger issue. The unforgivable sin is not misunderstanding or understanding the trinity, it is rejecting the holy spirit which is the love of God and others. All the rituals and knowing how to say his name, just right, does not save you. Mispronouncing God's name is the not the unforgivable sin. When it says to love God with all your heart, mind and soul, it does not mean you will have a perfect understanding of him and all knowledge. It is a more visceral experience, it means to love him with all you are capable of. That is to have the holy spirit. Here is the basic question, would you love God if you were wrong about the trinity?

reply to post by Akragon


Dear Akragon,

I just responded to the OP regarding Trinitarian views, would you be kind enough to read what I wrote and respond as you will. As always, have nice day.

reply to post by Akragon


Okay, makes sense now.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Of course, if you look past the Trinity doctrine to see what the Bible has to say, you will see that it's not just a trinity, but a trinity of trinities: Father + Son + Seven Spirits. We see the Seven Spirits mentioned in the Revelation (1:4, 3:1, 4:5, and 5:6), and we can find them named in the first verses of Isaiah 11.

www.buzzle.com...

reply to post by AQuestion


Well said... but I have one issue...

When the spirit of God interacted with the Jews in the desert while Moses was with them, they rejected interacting with him directly. When he interacted with them in the form of a human, they killed him. They treated him differently depending on the form he took, they began with fear and worked up into hate. They changed, he did not. This is a way to understand the trinity.

What makes you believe Jesus was the same entity as the one that interacted with Moses?

And if you believe they are the same person or entity... how can you say HE didn't change?

hmm... make that two issues

reply to post by Akragon


I think the connection lies on Mt. Sinai. Moses spoke to god who said he was the "I AM".

Jesus goes on to say that he was who Moses spoke of (John 5:48) and that he was the "I AM" (John 8:58).

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Akragon

 

I think the connection lies on Mt. Sinai. Moses spoke to god who said he was the "I AM".

Jesus goes on to say that he was who Moses spoke of (John 5:48) and that he was the "I AM" (John 8:58).

edit on 30-4-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

That brings us back to my previous statement...

I AM is the essence of God... which is within Jesus...

The entity that spoke in the burning bush was an "angel" not God... though it was turned into God a few verses later... Moses' mistake...

Personally I believe that angel wasn't from the true God... likely a fallen one, if such things exist

reply to post by AQuestion



Dear AQ,

A very long time ago my father and his mother in law got into an argument over the "virgin birth". She said it was impossible to have a virgin birth. Today we have many of them, we call them artificial insemination are even test tube babies. Would you deny that people can have babies even if they have not had sex? For thousand of years people made a big deal about the virgin birth, turns out it was not that complicated after all.

Do you think that "God" has sperm? Even babies born from the miracle of artificial insemination have father that ejaculated sperm into a cup. Did Jesus' father have a penis? Where did the sperm come from, in this immaculate conception?

reply to post by Akragon


The I AM is in all of us, not just Jesus.

I don't think Moses ever spoke to a burning bush, I think that was added in possibly. I think Moses was a true prophet just like Jesus, except his story was hijacked much like Jesus' was. He didn't worship Yahweh, that part was added in later in my opinion.

Originally posted by windword
Where did the sperm come from, in this immaculate conception?

He created the universe, you think he couldn't create a person?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Akragon

 

The I AM is in all of us, not just Jesus.

I don't think Moses ever spoke to a burning bush, I think that was added in possibly. I think Moses was a true prophet just like Jesus, except his story was hijacked much like Jesus' was. He didn't worship Yahweh, that part was added in later in my opinion.

That's based on speculation though...

IF we're dealing with this particular book we have to assume that what is said is what happened...

There is evidence within what is written that Moses wasn't a man of the true God... Like Jesus was...

Jesus said "all that came before me were thieves and robbers"... that includes moses...

Jesus was the ONLY true man of God in the bible... the rest don't add up to the mark

reply to post by Akragon


How do you explain John 5:46 in that case? If Moses wasn't a true man of god then Jesus wouldn't have said that in my opinion.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Akragon

 

How do you explain John 5:46 in that case? If Moses wasn't a true man of god then Jesus wouldn't have said that in my opinion.

Moses had a few revelations... there is prophecy about Jesus within the OT... I won't deny that...

Just because he wrote of him doesn't necessarily mean he was a "true" man of God... or even a man of the same God for that matter...

reply to post by Akragon


But isn't you saying Moses wasn't a true man of god based on speculation? If we are to read the OT, we must assume that Moses was a true man of god, right? The OT says so, so we must assume that is correct.

The fact is that Jesus said that to believe Moses was to believe him, that implies that Moses was a true man of god.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

But isn't you saying Moses wasn't a true man of god based on speculation? If we are to read the OT, we must assume that Moses was a true man of god, right? The OT says so, so we must assume that is correct.

This is why there is an OT, and a NT... the old is useless since the new came into effect...

Jesus came to earth to show us the right way, as opposed to the OT

The fact is that Jesus said that to believe Moses was to believe him, that implies that Moses was a true man of god.

Which God?

All came from the one true God... but there are many "gods"... which are basically spiritual entities which are higher on the "spiritual bar" then we are....

There are "lesser" Gods... so to speak

reply to post by Akragon


Dear Akragon,

What makes you believe Jesus was the same entity as the one that interacted with Moses? And if you believe they are the same person or entity... how can you say HE didn't change? hmm... make that two issues

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. What was that word? Does the pronunciation matter or the meaning of the word? We are told that the word was "I Am". Self awareness is the word. Both the recognition of self and the giving it a name were the beginning. Consider that for a moment dear friend. If I describe myself to you accurately, is my description and accurate description of me? Which is true about me when both are true about me, what if my description of me is true and I act from my intent and am true to myself.

As for the second part of your question. He didn't change, he was always capable of expressing himself in any manner he chose. When I express myself in dreams, I am still me, I am just expressing myself in the dream world, the world changes, not me. I always love talking with you dear Akragon, you ask the best sincere questions. Peace out.

reply to post by Akragon


But you just said the same thing to me when I mentioned Moses' story being hijacked?

Well, if Jesus said that Moses spoke of him, that means Moses' god was the same as Jesus'.

reply to post by AQuestion

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.

Jesus didn't say that... John did...

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Akragon

 

But you just said the same thing to me when I mentioned Moses' story being hijacked?

Well, if Jesus said that Moses spoke of him, that means Moses' god was the same as Jesus'.

Mat 22

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.