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Sometimes I wonder about the Trinitarian view.

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posted on May, 1 2013 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by palg1
 

. . . the works of the Church Fathers (a new fresh look).

Is this a study group and they released a report of their findings?




posted on May, 1 2013 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by AllGloryIsGods
I wonder if when we all stand before God will he say "You really wasted your time debating this nonsense?".

I am a firm believer that Yeshua and Yahweh are two separate entities.


I'll keep it simple Yahweh was a mountain god. From a gnostic perspective I believe Yahweh is the Deimurge. Look it up



posted on May, 1 2013 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by TheConstruKctionofLight
 

I'll keep it simple Yahweh was a mountain god. From a gnostic perspective I believe Yahweh is the Deimurge. Look it up
You are late to the party and all of that has already been brought up.
Do you have any actual research on the subject that you would like to share?



posted on May, 1 2013 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by Witness123
 


What are you talking about?

Seriously, I see you attacking my point by reinforcing it, and I have no idea what you're going on about.



posted on May, 1 2013 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by Witness123
 


What are you talking about?

Seriously, I see you attacking my point by reinforcing it, and I have no idea what you're going on about.


What you are experiencing is normal for a discussion on the confusing trinity doctrine.



posted on May, 1 2013 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I will review my notes tonight, but as I recall it was a post Vat II ecumenical group of theologians (catholic and orthodox) who were replying to those same questions this thread is discussing.

I'll get back to this thread with specifics later (tomorrow).



posted on May, 1 2013 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by AllGloryIsGods
 





Originally posted by AllGloryIsGods
I am a firm believer that Yeshua and Yahweh are two separate entities. One cannot be his own son. The Bible clearly separates them by name. So my belief will never change and this thread is not to try and change others opinions. I just had this thought today and sometimes I wonder what God thinks about this. Whether its completely silly to debate it. Or would worshiping Yeshua be considered worshiping a false idol?


First of all, I should state that I share your opinion, in that Jesus and the Father are 2 individual beings, who are one in Spirit only… my thoughts of which can be found in the thread posts, found here and here

Regarding your question. What I have come to realize over a long period of looking into this topic, is that God does not seem to hold it against believers in either the Trinitarian doctrine, or the Non-Trinitarian beliefs. From what I have seen and researched, God pours out the Holy Spirit on both sets of believers. And for a long time I thought to myself “how can this be, surely only one truth, can be true etc”.


What I have come to realize, is that there is a universal truth held by both groups, in that they both believe that God the Father, speaks through Jesus. In other words, that is the universal truth, which is held by both groups, and it reaches deep into the spiritual side of things.


As for debating it, I don’t think going out of your way, to discuss it, everyday, is the right way to go about it. But if on the other hand someone asks you your opinion, or asks you why you believe in it, then you should be ready to give a defense and reason, as to why you believe it.


- JC



posted on May, 1 2013 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 

I too agree with the OP

I also agree with the common ground stance you talk about with those with sincere beliefs of other Christian ideological dogma.
However, Saul of Tarsus was also very sincere, but he was also wrong too, seeing that level of sincerity of faith, Jesus acted to give him a personal conversion and it is the only known real case in history that we know happened.
It isn't happening like that today. Sure God may answer a sincere prayer with signs that gives us direction one way or another, but none of us will ever get what the Apostle Paul received telling us, hey this is Jesus and your beliefs are wrong. He has the entire bible and Holy Spirit to help us along today.

These scriptures come to mind.

John 4:24 (AMP Bible)

God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality).


Romans 10:2 (AMP Bible)

 I bear them witness that they have a [certain] zeal and enthusiasm for God, but it is not enlightened and according to [correct and vital] knowledge.


Some may say it's not that important but John 17:3 says otherwise

This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.


Part of that knowledge is the understanding of Jesus relationship with his Father, and contrary to what some are posting in this thread, that Father is not some demon mountain god.

Do you really think that those posting in this thread that categorize the Almighty God as such have his approval ?

Their misunderstanding of the bible and history insults God at the highest level.
And I am sure his Son does not approve either.

This ideology is worse than the Trinity, at least with the Trinity the God of the Hebrews is respected.


edit on 1-5-2013 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 1 2013 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 

. . . contrary to what some are posting in this thread, that Father is not some demon mountain god.
I'm not saying that.
Of course your indoctrination would lead you to believe that God is Yahweh or Jehovah.
I'm saying that what we call Judaism today inherited a mythology from its Canaanite roots, which in my opinion, is wrong.
The right idea of who and what God is, comes from Jesus, and he was calling the actual God, his Father.
That is the real God, in the New Testament, and what is in the Old Testament is so much myth and legend.



posted on May, 1 2013 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I don't know what bizarre strain of Christianity you think you adhere to, but believing the Hebrew scriptures are a myth, the Almighty God of Israel is a demon god, and the Apostle Paul and the books he wrote are not inspired, put you in a category of some other religion. You have done so much reading and research you have confused yourself into your own personal indoctrination, as you are so fond of saying.

edit on 1-5-2013 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 1 2013 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


Yahweh is not Israel's God.



posted on May, 1 2013 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


Yahweh is not Israel's God.


In your signature you have quoted a scripture, who is that God then ?



posted on May, 1 2013 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


Yahweh is not Israel's God.


In your signature you have quoted a scripture, who is that God then ?

Oh, you're going to love this...




posted on May, 1 2013 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


Yahweh is not Israel's God.


In your signature you have quoted a scripture, who is that God then ?




EhYeh is Israel's God. Yahweh means moon god of perversion in Hebrew.



posted on May, 1 2013 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


Yahweh is not Israel's God.


In your signature you have quoted a scripture, who is that God then ?




EhYeh is Israel's God. Yahweh means moon god of perversion in Hebrew.


But does יהוה = EhYeh ?



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 

I don't know what bizarre strain of Christianity you think you adhere to,
My own, as you later on, in this post, point out.

but believing the Hebrew scriptures are a myth,
No, I do believe that there is a such thing as "Hebrew scripture", and that it is not a myth that it exists. I am saying that the God of the Old Testament is none other than the Canaanite mythical God.

the Almighty God of Israel is a demon god,
Just because the New Testament is sometimes translated to include an "all-mighty", does not mean that it means the same thing as what it was saying in the Old Testament that got translated as "all-mighty".

and the Apostle Paul and the books he wrote are not inspired,
I do believe that the Apostle Paul was inspired, and that the books that he wrote were inspired.
I don't think that some of the books formerly considered to have been written by Paul, and so made it into the canonical New Testament, were written by Paul, even if it has a statement in it that says that he did.

put you in a category of some other religion.
No, I am a Christian, it is just that I believe in what I consider to be 'normal' Christianity, meaning not a cult version.


You have done so much reading and research you have confused yourself into your own personal indoctrination, as you are so fond of saying.
No, because I am selective in my reading to not get caught up in theories that have not been properly vetted.

edit on 2-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 

Do you really think that those posting in this thread that categorize the Almighty God as such have his approval ?
Hello, I'm right here, and I heard that.
Are you denouncing me and damning me to Hell?
You do realize that as you judge, so shall you be judged?
See my post above on this "All-mighty" business.
This is your "proof"? that the English translation has that title in both the NT, and the OT.
I think you too need to realize that you have been cult brainwashed and need to be deprogrammed.
Your brainwashing is having negative consequences in your daily life to where you are cursing people to Hell because they don't conform to weird cult doctrine.

Their misunderstanding of the bible and history insults God at the highest level.
And I am sure that you have no argument to back this up because the truth is that making the real God out as this monster of the Old Testament is an insult to Him.
The only thing "insulted" is your ego of a self-image that was formed by cult indoctrination.
edit on 2-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


First off I don't believe in hell, so no you aren't going there.
And Jesus gets to judge, obviously not me or any other human, but I do know this, when the day of Judgement takes place Jesus won't be kind to those who still think of his father, as some false mountain demon god. That is more than some minor error in theology.

Second, your continued use of the phrase "Cult Indoctrination" is a classic ad hominem attack strategy, surely you can do better in addressing the topics than this.



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 

Jesus won't be kind to those who still think of his father, as some false mountain demon god.

I don't.
You do.

You don't seem to get that.
If you say that God is Yahweh or Jehovah or however you transliterate the Hebrew, but otherwise, the god character in the Old Testament, you believe in who was actually a mountain demon-god.
I don't believe in a demon-god and I should clarify the term I am using, "demon" and I mean it in a monster-movie way, some horrible entity that feeds on human flesh, and who's desire is to kill as many people as possible.
I believe in the entity pointed out by Jesus and who he called his Father.
Jesus told the Jews that their Father was a murderer.

Second, your continued use of the phrase "Cult Indoctrination" is a classic ad hominem attack strategy, surely you can do better in addressing the topics than this.
It's not a "strategy". It's what I believe.
I'm not on this forum to win points for "my side", since I don't represent a "side" and I am not trying to get popularity for myself since I have a certain degree of anonymity, with just a user name that is designed on purpose to conceal my real identity.
I feel for other human beings and try to help them out from falling into traps set for them by people who do have a strategy.
edit on 2-5-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2013 @ 05:32 AM
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Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


Yahweh is not Israel's God.


In your signature you have quoted a scripture, who is that God then ?




EhYeh is Israel's God. Yahweh means moon god of perversion in Hebrew.


But does יהוה = EhYeh ?


No, יהוה was only used by Jews after they were perverted by Babylon. יהוה is used in witchcraft.

EhYeh (often translated as I AM) is where we get the Hebrew name YeShas (I AM delivers) which is Jesus in English.

When Jesus claimed to be I AM, He claimed to be EhYeh in flesh.



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