Citizen Hearing on Disclosure of Life outside of Planet Earth

This is actually a farce at this point. Where are the posts in this thread talking about what's actually going on at the hearing? Why don't those of us who are bothered just make an effort not to go around in circles with posters like "woo-woo" fantastic and actually speak about what the speakers have been saying?

Maybe some mods should try to get this thread back on track or something.

People are going on about who's fake and who isn't, but I'd bet if we went through the whole list of speakers we'd find many of them who do have something credible to say.

It's just the usual media blackout, disinformation campaign as far as I can see.

We just have to face the fact that people do come onto the internet, to all types of sites in order to stop people from being able to speak about the actual subject. They don't have Operation Earnest Voice for nothing you know.

If there's decent stuff to research the decent researchers will find it, no matter how many people try to discredit the entire list of speakers just because one or two of them might be frauds. I don't believe every one of them are frauds, but looking at this thread you'd think that's what we're supposed to believe.

Worst thread I've ever seen on this site.

Just remember : if aliens are proven the oil and gas cartels along with the governments are no longer the be-all and end-all. That alone explains decades of crap surrounding this subject.

We should try to stay on topic and avoid the arguments. They can just be ignored and we can just research the hearing.

To those that say I'm "mini-modding" : thanks in advance. If you think this thread is on topic you must be "woo-woo" yourself.

Originally posted by robhines
Just remember : if aliens are proven the oil and gas cartels along with the governments are no longer the be-all and end-all. That alone explains decades of crap surrounding this subject.

Try to stay on topic and avoid the arguments. They can just be ignored and we can just research the hearing.

To those that say I'm "mini-modding" : thanks in advance. If you think this thread is on topic you must be "woo-woo" yourself.

Oh there are many, countless, witnesses that can say 100% that something was seen in the sky or under the water. Yup. There is also many witnesses that can honestly say they heard things inside agencies of our military. Yup.

But...and I must be very clear here...there is ZERO evidence showing any of this leads to aliens. In fact, the majority of solid evidence suggests otherwise.

Like I have said...I believe in the UFO phenomena. I am very open to "rational" debate about it. And you will find that I actually do trust some witnesses on this subject.

But no...I will not support anyone saying this is 100% aliens from other planets or dimensions. I'm sorry, that's jumping a major gun and leaping across gaps in evidence to come to a media induced conclusion.

There is zero evidence leading towards UFOs being aliens.

Not saying its not possible. Not saying that at all. I AM saying those who are spreading this type of idea with 100% certainty are just as bad as those who are dismissing it with 100% audacity.

MM

I'd like to add...

WOO-WOO!!! GREER IS A FRUAD!

And this conference is laced with dishonesty, proven hoaxers, quacks and nut jobs.

And nothing will come from it other than cash in the pockets of those who want cash.

Knowing the UFO phenomena is real, is enough reason to get upset that this conference is really just a snake-oil sale being run by hucksters who have been CAUGHT lying, cheating and benefiting financially from the "con" they sell.

I can only say- Its like learning that Hitler himself organized your Bar Mitzvah.

MM

Originally posted by robhines
This is actually a farce at this point.

Very true,, this "hearing" is a farce.

Where are the posts in this thread talking about what's actually going on at the hearing?

So exactly what worthwhile information has been heard there?

Why don't those of us who are bothered just make an effort not to go around in circles with posters like "woo-woo" fantastic and actually speak about what the speakers have been saying?

Well, good question, why haven't you? Could it be because they actually have been saying nothing of interest?

People are going on about who's fake and who isn't, but I'd bet if we went through the whole list of speakers we'd find many of them who do have something credible to say.

Well, where is your list and the credible things thatthey said?

It's just the usual media blackout, disinformation campaign as far as I can see.

Or just a group of frauds and con artists trying to earn a few more bucks....

They don't have Operation Earnest Voice for nothing you know.

Well, they try to counter all the lies and bull# with facts....

I don't believe every one of them are frauds,

So how about you list the frauds and also list those who you think are not frauds....

reply to post by hellobruce


I came into this thread interested in what was going on. I haven't watched any of the hearing, that's why I'm using the thread, to try and see what's being said and who's said it!

Like a lot of others I'd guess, this thread isn't helping at all. I'm not invested in this to the point that I'm going to research every single speaker, what they've said, and then report all about it. I just want to know if this has been interesting or not, but the bias in this thread is insanely negative by the looks of it.

MSM appear to have reported on the following UFO report, which I find interesting as this is from 2 pilots in Glasgow Scotland. It appears to be fairly conclusive that it is 100% UFO.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by Mr Mask
But...and I must be very clear here...there is ZERO evidence showing any of this leads to aliens. In fact, the majority of solid evidence suggests otherwise.

I don't believe this at all, and there's many others that wouldn't agree either that know way more than I do. But go on then, where does it lead? Military craft using electrogravitics and other tech? People imagining things? People just trying to make cash?

What have people like Jacques Vallee being doing all these years if so? Peddling crap? Going insane? I don't believe for one second that the majority of evidence suggests otherwise, I think you're very wrong.

Oh and by the way : $3.80 for several days of streaming of this hearing. How do you set up a site and stream for several days to an audience without that costing money? I'd love to know. Maybe that's why it costs to see it.

Originally posted by hellobruce
this "hearing" is a farce.

Have you been watching it? Tell us why it's a farce then, without just saying something like "Because Greer is there! Oh, and the guy with the hollow earth t-shirt!"

Originally posted by robhines

I don't believe this at all, and there's many others that wouldn't agree either that know way more than I do. But go on then, where does it lead? Military craft using electrogravitics and other tech? People imagining things? People just trying to make cash?

What have people like Jacques Vallee being doing all these years if so? Peddling crap? Going insane? I don't believe for one second that the majority of evidence suggests otherwise, I think you're very wrong.

And this is exactly what I mean about "lack of research"...for example. I tell you there is zero evidence showing UFOs come from space, and then you bring up Jacques Vallee (a man I actually have always enjoyed, even if I do not fully agree with), and say "what has he being doing all these years?" As if he has been supporting your views.

It shows you don't really pay much attention to him at all.

Well sir...what he has been doing since 1969 is being the loudest voice in the UFO field that UFOs are very possibly "not aliens from another planet".

In fact, his work within the field of UFOs is considered some of the most scientifically based research on the entire phenomena, and like MANY creditable voices in the field he has come to the same conclusion-

UFOs show a very high likelihood of not being from space "if they are not earthly".

THINK about that. If you really think UFOs are real...think about how "what they are" was sold to you by TV shows and Movies alone.

In fact, most "serious" speculation on the subject has been (for some time now) leading critical thinkers to assume these UFOs are coming from other dimensions, times or universes outside our own (if they are not coming from earth).

Jacques Vallee is one of the fathers of this idea...and I don't see how you can question that, seeing as you keep mentioning him as if you read his work or support him.

AGAIN- I'd like to point out that the ONLY reason fans of UFOs suspect they come from space is media induced and sci-fi related. There is ENDLESS reasons both scientific and logical as to why (if they are not earthly!) to assume these things do not come from other planets. The list is a very very VERY long one.

Catch up...stop trusting Greer. Start looking deeper than the History Channel and Hollywood movies.

If you TRUELY think there is something flying around "unidentified", stop "identifying it" as something you "know as space aliens".

And stop presenting Jacques Vallee as a strong supporter of the nuts-n-bolts spaceship theory. For decades he has written and spoken much against that theory and has presented many reasons why.

I really hope you consider thinking outside the "alien box" and start wondering how deep the rabbit hole actually is...or is not, instead of buying into one answer before we even have a complete question.

Thanks for your time.

MM

Originally posted by robhines
Oh and by the way : $3.80 for several days of streaming of this hearing. How do you set up a site and stream for several days to an audience without that costing money? I'd love to know. Maybe that's why it costs to see it.

edit on 1-5-2013 by robhines because: added

Youtube offers live streaming for free.

Just saying.

So do many sites.

MM

SPACE CADETS HIT D.C.: Ufo buffs beam up to well paid ex-pols

ttp://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ufo-buffs-beam-well-paid-ex-pols-article-1.1330724

Originally posted by robhines
This is actually a farce at this point. Where are the posts in this thread talking about what's actually going on at the hearing? Why don't those of us who are bothered just make an effort not to go around in circles with posters like "woo-woo" fantastic and actually speak about what the speakers have been saying?

Maybe some mods should try to get this thread back on track or something.

People are going on about who's fake and who isn't, but I'd bet if we went through the whole list of speakers we'd find many of them who do have something credible to say.

It's just the usual media blackout, disinformation campaign as far as I can see.

We just have to face the fact that people do come onto the internet, to all types of sites in order to stop people from being able to speak about the actual subject. They don't have Operation Earnest Voice for nothing you know.

If there's decent stuff to research the decent researchers will find it, no matter how many people try to discredit the entire list of speakers just because one or two of them might be frauds. I don't believe every one of them are frauds, but looking at this thread you'd think that's what we're supposed to believe.

Worst thread I've ever seen on this site.

edit on 1-5-2013 by robhines because: typo

First, ask yourself how often reputable people hang around with huckssters. Is it often? I would say in my experience, no. Fraudsters do not attract reputable people as compatriots. So with that said....


You say this:

People are going on about who's fake and who isn't, but I'd bet if we went through the whole list of speakers we'd find many of them who do have something credible to say.

Then follow with this:

It's just the usual media blackout, disinformation campaign as far as I can see.

You bet? Why bet when you can actually prove it? Go through the list of speakers and point out who you think has any kind of decent reputation. Quit hinging a position on supposition, and find out yourself.

Otherwise, "as far as I can see" is admittedly not very far.

Originally posted by robhines
What have people like Jacques Vallee being doing all these years if so? Peddling crap? Going insane? I don't believe for one second that the majority of evidence suggests otherwise, I think you're very wrong.

Since you "say" you trust and support Vallée's work, but show that you don't know anything he supports or reports on the matter. I figured I'd give you something to consider.

J. Vallée's "Five Arguments Against the Extraterrestrial Origin of Unidentified Flying Objects", Journal of Scientific Exploration, 1990:

Scientific opinion has generally followed public opinion in the belief that unidentified flying objects either do not exist (the "natural phenomena hypothesis") or, if they do, must represent evidence of a visitation by some advanced race of space travellers (the extraterrestrial hypothesis or "ETH"). It is the view of the author that research on UFOs need not be restricted to these two alternatives. On the contrary, the accumulated data base exhibits several patterns tending to indicate that UFOs are real, represent a previously unrecognized phenomenon, and that the facts do not support the common concept of "space visitors." Five specific arguments articulated here contradict the ETH:

1. unexplained close encounters are far more numerous than required for any physical survey of the earth;
2. the humanoid body structure of the alleged "aliens" is not likely to have originated on another planet and is not biologically adapted to space travel;
3. the reported behavior in thousands of abduction reports contradicts the hypothesis of genetic or scientific experimentation on humans by an advanced race;
4. the extension of the phenomenon throughout recorded human history demonstrates that UFOs are not a contemporary phenomenon; and
5. the apparent ability of UFOs to manipulate space and time suggests radically different and richer alternatives.

Now that's Vallée's main view on the subject of UFOs. Not the stuff you put in his mouth to support your own "simplified media induced views" on the matter. Since you "say" you respect the man, maybe you will take HIS views into kind regard, since you have been nay saying me echoing them in this thread.

And I'd like to also say...I think you are "very dishonest" about your research.

I find it very impossible that you support or even have seen any of Vallée's work based on you attributing a hypothesis he doesn't support to him directly.

Like most UFO interested citizens, I am assuming you watched a couple youtube clips, movies and TV shows, and then decided it was safe to adopt a cookie-cutter hypothesis based on such, without ever having stepped foot in the realms of work done by anyone worth listening to.

Support Greer...have fun.

MM

reply to post by robhines


Also, to back up my claims of UFOs being from space- as just a Media Induced Idea, I'd like to present an interesting quote from Jacques speaking about a conversation he had with Steven Spielberg on the matter of UFOs not being ET from space.

"I argued with him that the subject was even more interesting if it wasn't extraterrestrials. If it was real, physical, but not ET. So he said, 'You're probably right, but that's not what the public is expecting — this is Hollywood and I want to give people something that's close to what they expect.'" -Jacques Vallée

Please consider that deeply.

I'd also like to say I agree with Jacques and his ULTIMATE CONCLUSION- I do not know what UFOs are. I think people are quick to make judgments and conclusions based on nothing scientific. After all my years of researching this subject, I am STILL clueless as to what the origins of this phenomena are, and I refuse to "identify it" as anything unworldly, from space or earthbound.

That's the safest stance to take.

MM

In all honesty i think that, even if a ufo landed on the white house lawn, aliens jumped out and said "were are herer and we are real" People on ATS would still cry fake, set up, chinese latern, false flag ect. I do not think there will ever be enough credible evidence for people. I do belive in UFO's and Aliens. I hope to never meet one as I would freak the F out.

Mr Mask stars for you.

I actually agree with alot of what you say.

UFO and possibly abductions are "maybe" real yes. But for the time being Aliens are no more of a explination than demons, time travellers or flying spegetti monsters.

Fact is we dont have a clue, all we know is people are spotting odd lights and objects and blips on radar, multiple people come forward telling the same and similiar storys and a lot of goverments are sitting on classifeid documents (though some like the UK are slowly releasing them).

Mr Mask, your posts where you assume so many things about me are so over the top that I'm not even going to get into it, instead will just go straight to the main thing I can see :

Originally posted by Mr Mask
In fact, most "serious" speculation on the subject has been (for some time now) leading critical thinkers to assume these UFOs are coming from other dimensions, times or universes outside our own (if they are not coming from earth).

Yes, the extradimensional hypothesis. It's one that I think is possibly a lot closer to anything else. I'm not pretending I've read much of Vallee at all, but I have at least taken the time to research enough to know that that theory is one I think deserves a lot of research, and is one I'm hugely interested in. It's one I resonate with more than almost any other.

You brought UFO's and nuts and bolts into your list of assumptions though, I simply said aliens. Now even if Vallee is right, and I think he may well be, I personally, for the sake of not knowing any other simple way of referring to what's going on at this moment in time, consider it as "alien." If you and Vallee don't, fair enough.

Edit : I've got to admit that I've just gone back and looked at Passport To Magonia to realize one of my mistakes : I had the work of Vallee mixed up with John Keel's Ultraterrestrial Theory in my head. So yes, I hold my hands up and admit that I have misrepresented Vallee there to a degree. I forget how bad my memory is and how long I've been away from researching this area now. It's the work of Vallee and Keel that I think is the best though by far, and I don't see how this hearing is taking us further from making this field something that should be looked into more seriously. That's unless you want to focus totally on Greer and a few others present + the hollow earth guy.

Another mistake I made was assuming something about you, and that was in thinking you were going to try and explain everything away as military and/or people being deluded, so apologies for that.

All I can add is that you at least wait for a response from someone in future before you assume so much though. (I'm not even going to go into what you might be assuming about this hearing either, if you've just assumed so much about me with so little evidence.)

Edit 2 :

Originally posted by Mr Mask
reply to post by robhines

 

Also, to back up my claims of UFOs being from space- as just a Media Induced Idea, I'd like to present an interesting quote from Jacques speaking about a conversation he had with Steven Spielberg on the matter of UFOs not being ET from space.

"I argued with him that the subject was even more interesting if it wasn't extraterrestrials. If it was real, physical, but not ET. So he said, 'You're probably right, but that's not what the public is expecting — this is Hollywood and I want to give people something that's close to what they expect.'" -Jacques Vallée

Never knew that at all, so thanks. That's definitely interesting.

I'm really baffled by the posts here. Like I said before, you can't dismiss testimony simply because the person talking is in the same room/event as someone else who you think is untrustworthy. That's irrational.

The Hearing is NOT CLAIMING that Aliens are real, or that they know the origin of the UFOs. Individual witnesses are giving their own opinion about the subject but there is no consensus. What this hearing wants to do is to show that there has been SUPPRESSION of the subject. Multiple military witnesses have come forward, describing how, after being involved in UNEXPLAINED phenomena, they were ordered not to talk about it, and act as if the event never happened.

Imagine for a moment that we don't know what causes earthquakes. Then an earthquake happens, and military personnel go from house to house saying "do not discuss what happened, this did not occur". Plus, whenever someone goes public saying "the Earth shook", the military puts a paid shill to ridicule that person and the event in any way possible: saying the event did not happen, that it was an illusion, that the person is mentally ill, etc., etc. How are we supposed to advance our knowledge about the subject? That goes counter to any scientific thinking, and puts all the knowledge on the hands of the people who are doing the suppression. And yet, that is exactly what has happened to the UFO issue.

So that's the problem. It's the silence, it's the suppression. That is what the hearing is trying to battle against. The US government clearly has more information than the public. Why don't they release it? Why is everything classified?

The Brazilian government, just last week, started having meetings between the Ministry of Defense and ufologists. Many other governments have come out and said "we're going to declassify documents". That means they were, in fact, classified, so the general public did not have access to that information... Why?