America should be divided into two nations.

Originally posted by namehere
you suggested division into 2 nations, that is total division, use common sense, it would start a war, someone merely pointed it out, noone called for war.

So you're saying that if everybody doesn't live by the same moral code, it is common sense that a war would start? Why should that be? And don't forget, I said we should still be united, just seperate moral codes and rules, so maybe I should not use the term nations, just two states, with sub-states. Is that better?

you liberals are amusing, no matter how things go you find excuses to make non-liberals the bad guy, its funny.

27jd and others

You're working from a false premise. You are trying to make this a religious issue. It isn't. People are against gay marriage because of a variety of reasons. I personally know many Democrats who are against gay marriage, so it isn't even a political affiliation.

The issue of gay marriage was brought before the American public in 11 states, and in 11 states they said "No thanks".

It wasn't the other way around. Nobody put a Christian value initiative on the ballot and said do you accept it? Vote yes or no.

You have no way of proving that everyone that voted against the gay marriage issue did it for religous reasons. Even if they did, so what? That's their right. You asked, they said no thanks. Live with it. Or leave. Talking about dividing the country because you didn't get your way is just sour grapes.

Originally posted by namehere
you liberals are amusing, no matter how things go you find excuses to make non-liberals the bad guy, its funny.

I think you're in another thread or something. Where did I make anybody the bad guy? I don't have the authority nor the desire to say anybody is right or wrong, I just wish to live as I choose within the bounds of humanity, not to have my choices made for me by the religious right. Like I said, in my idea of a good state, everybody would be welcome, including the religious, they just can't tell others what to do there.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by FredT
Get over it. Its done. What if the vote had been revered? With Kerry winning by the same margins as Bush? Would you still be making your call? No is the likely answer.....

No, but you would be. Would the evangelical population EVER recognize gay marriage? No. Would they EVER accept those who do not agree with their values? Not the ones I know. It's easy for you to say get over it, your oppresive religious nazi regime won. I wish Kerry did win, I KNOW you guys would not just bow down and accept it, although, since your side won, you will of course say you would.


[edit on 4-11-2004 by 27jd]

Oh brother, give me a break -

Religion has nothing to do with how people voted - thirty some percent (that's all) commented that their votes were based on morality issues and not all of that thirty some percent were Christians or from a church.

Get over it. People are complaining so much because they want the government (their higher authority) to back up immorality so that they can indulge themselves in their desires and sinful nature under the law of man and that just might take away their guilty conscience a tad. This has nothing to do with religion. Blame religion for everything! People are going to do what they want anyway. Gay people all ready live together don't they? What a bunch of babies. Man

Why are people being put down for wanting to be seperate? If you were in a room with 9 other people and 6 of them felt one way about something and you and the other 3 were adamantly opposed to it, would you just change who you are because there happened to be more people who feel differently than you do?

Tha's exactly what's going on in the country, Bush and his administration's policies, foreign and domestic, have been the catalyst for all of this dismay and distrust for the government. I'm an American born, veteran, father, native american whose government goes against everything I believe in. What do I do? Move? Doesn't that tell the rest of you that we aren't truly free? Even if I moved to Canada or anywhere else, that wouldn't change America's foreign policy, which is growing more agressive than ever. I would still have to sit idly by and watch innocent people all over the world die b/c they opposed the all-mighty United States!

Maybe those who voted for Bush feel like they can live with those deaths weighing heavily on their soul, but I can't. I am not a "liberal", whatever that means, or a democrat. In fact, I would have no problem with a republican president, if he didn't take my rights away and if he didn't advocate unnecessary violence all over the world. It's not about rep. or dem. anymore, it's about freedom and as the past 2 elections have shown, America is losing it's freedom, I for one see that, if you can't then, you've already given up every ideal that this country was founded on.

Originally posted by jsobecky
27jd and others

You're working from a false premise. You are trying to make this a religious issue. It isn't. People are against gay marriage because of a variety of reasons. I personally know many Democrats who are against gay marriage, so it isn't even a political affiliation.

The issue of gay marriage was brought before the American public in 11 states, and in 11 states they said "No thanks".

No thanks? Was a gay man proposing to them? THEY are not the ones who would be married to a gay person, if they think it is wrong, leave it to god to judge them, it's not our responsibility to judge. That's the moral seperation I wish for, if that's enough to divide the nation so be it.

It wasn't the other way around. Nobody put a Christian value initiative on the ballot and said do you accept it? Vote yes or no.

Just because something isn't specifically worded, doesn't mean it isn't so. This was a Christian value initiative, non-Christians who voted for it are likely homophobic, otherwise they, like myself, would recognize that just because it is gross to us, it's not our business or right to deny them equal rights. Back in the 40's and 50's votes against rights for blacks would have passed with huge majority, does that make it right? Funny how so many blacks these days are against equal rights for gays.

Originally posted by Godsent
Oh brother, give me a break -

Religion has nothing to do with how people voted - thirty some percent (that's all) commented that their votes were based on morality issues and not all of that thirty some percent were Christians or from a church.

But then you say:

Get over it. People are complaining so much because they want the government (their higher authority) to back up immorality so that they can indulge themselves in their desires and sinful nature under the law of man and that just might take away their guilty conscience a tad.

Sinful? And you say it isn't about religion? I don't think anybody has a guilty conscience, but you should if you think you can judge others, which is against the very religious values you say this "has nothing to do with".

I don't even know why we should determine who should or shouldn't get married. A gay marriage wouldn't effect me, why should I prevent them from doing something that has nothing to do with me. Heterosexuals opposing gay marriage want to keep the "sanctity of matrimony" sacred, whatever that mean. That kind of reasoning would make anything that you opposed illegal whether or not it harms anyone. I don't like the color lime green, in fact I want to keep tennis shoes sacred, so it should be illegal to make lime green tennis shoes. Right?

If you believe that marriage is something sacred, which insinuates a faith in a higher authority granting the right of that marriage, then guess what, 2 gay people getting married doesn't change one thing about your marriage or your beliefs, does it? Jews, muslims, catholics and thousands of variations all believe in a single omnipotent god which they worship, prey to and devote their live to. Should they not be allowed to use the word god, b/c it taints your version of god? Where does this hatred of others differences end?

Gay marriage effects no one but gays, period, so the only ones voting on it should have been them.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by jsobecky
27jd and others


Just because something isn't specifically worded, doesn't mean it isn't so. This was a Christian value initiative, non-Christians who voted for it are likely homophobic, otherwise they, like myself, would recognize that just because it is gross to us, it's not our business or right to deny them equal rights. Back in the 40's and 50's votes against rights for blacks would have passed with huge majority, does that make it right? Funny how so many blacks these days are against equal rights for gays.

Oh please -

Here is a shocker for you - our whole government is corrupt; doesn't matter who is in office; things were set in motion before Bush even won the first presidency; Kerry was all for everything Bush was doing - backed him up until Kerry decided to run; the democratic party were the ones proposing the reinstatement of the draft, goes on and on. Do you people really think that it is one man (the president) who makes all the decisions????

RED, BLUE are stupid labels and misconceptions


You are mixing apples with oranges.
You are comparing an ELECTORAL system with political preferences
A state's color is determined by the mayority of VOTERS who decided to support
an certain idea, but a state's population is the sum voters and non voters, so while 50 to 55% of the people do vote is leaves a huge part of the population who actually DON'T CARE about politics out of the picture.

I'd say you are blissfully embracing ignorance!

Who cares about Derek Zoolander anyway? The man has only one look for Christ's sake! Blue Steel? Ferrari? Le Tigra? They're the same face! Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

[edit on 4-11-2004 by Vladtepes]

Originally posted by Godsent
Here is a shocker for you - our whole government is corrupt; doesn't matter who is in office; things were set in motion before Bush even won the first presidency; Kerry was all for everything Bush was doing - backed him up until Kerry decided to run; the democratic party were the ones proposing the reinstatement of the draft, goes on and on. Do you people really think that it is one man (the president) who makes all the decisions????

It is now, there are no more checks and balances to keep the corrupt government (that you support) in line. The Constitution will make great toilet paper for Bush and his "base", hopefully it scratches his @ss. This man believes god speaks to him, and in effect tells him to kill people, turns out god loves war, who would've known?!



[edit on 4-11-2004 by 27jd]

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Godsent
Here is a shocker for you - our whole government is corrupt; doesn't matter who is in office; things were set in motion before Bush even won the first presidency; Kerry was all for everything Bush was doing - backed him up until Kerry decided to run; the democratic party were the ones proposing the reinstatement of the draft, goes on and on. Do you people really think that it is one man (the president) who makes all the decisions????

It is now, there are no more checks and balances to keep the corrupt government (that you support) in line. The Constitution will make great toilet paper for Bush and his "base", hopefully it scratches his @ss. This man believes god speaks to him, and in effect tells him to kill people, turns out god loves war, who would've known?!



[edit on 4-11-2004 by 27jd]

Honestly the only people who need a country of their own are anti american "americans". You think you know politics and you think that because you didnt get your way you can impose your hatred amongst others. Your whats wrong with America and ill let you know 99% of democrats will agree with me. Your thinking is what splits the country, your lack of knowledge about politics is what splits this country, its blind hatred on stuff you obviously know nothing about. Example, you actually made this thread and are actually trying to defend it. You try to complain about evangelicals who you seem to think are all fundamentalists, yet your the one with the fundementalist attitude. Look in the mirror and repeat....

"I am the problem"

Originally posted by Dreamz
Honestly the only people who need a country of their own are anti american "americans".

Very typical, because I believe in freedom, I am anti-american, you're the first person to say that!

You think you know politics and you think that because you didnt get your way you can impose your hatred amongst others.

Republicans control the House, Senate, and White House, what more is there to know? You have not expressed your infinite knowledge that I can see.

Your whats wrong with America and ill let you know 99% of democrats will agree with me.

Well thanks for letting me know, too bad it's BS, let's see, where's the 99% of democrats that agree with Dreamz that it's un-american to speak your mind? Please post in response.

Your thinking is what splits the country, your lack of knowledge about politics is what splits this country, its blind hatred on stuff you obviously know nothing about.

Free thinking splits the country? Then it needs to be split. Your people are the ones who advocate hatred, I'm trying to do away with it. But that means you have to hate the haters, if that's what you want to call it, by pointing out they're wrong and you want no part of it. I guess that's what splits the country.

Example, you actually made this thread and are actually trying to defend it. You try to complain about evangelicals who you seem to think are all fundamentalists, yet your the one with the fundementalist attitude. Look in the mirror and repeat....

"I am the solution"

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Godsent
Here is a shocker for you - our whole government is corrupt; doesn't matter who is in office; things were set in motion before Bush even won the first presidency; Kerry was all for everything Bush was doing - backed him up until Kerry decided to run; the democratic party were the ones proposing the reinstatement of the draft, goes on and on. Do you people really think that it is one man (the president) who makes all the decisions????

It is now, there are no more checks and balances to keep the corrupt government (that you support) in line. The Constitution will make great toilet paper for Bush and his "base", hopefully it scratches his @ss. This man believes god speaks to him, and in effect tells him to kill people, turns out god loves war, who would've known?!



[edit on 4-11-2004 by 27jd]

Oh excuse me, your right ...democratic party can't be a part of the government can they; the constitution has made great toilet paper to all the people who believe that this country was not founded on a structure of morality - oh yeah, UNDER GOD; Oh let's don't forget the fact that even though Bush supported moral values it is a state issue not government so people are crying for nothing;

[edit on 4-11-2004 by Godsent]

And we're definitely not as divided as the GOP would have some believe.

Once you remove the RNC wedge issues that turned the country into clear geographical red & blue divisions....we're pretty much all purple.

Good point RANT, but I still think there are too many who feel their moral values must be imposed on all, so I think there should be some kind of line, be it seperate states or otherwise, in which they are not able to impose their values. They can practice whatever values they choose, they just cannot make laws requiring all to follow them. If they wish to be among people who share their values only, they can live in the alternate state. I know it's just a dream, but I think things are going to get alot worse before they get better.

Originally posted by RANT
And we're definitely not as divided as the GOP would have some believe.

Thant's one way to look at it... If you were in a state of denial. :shk:

Here's two historical perspectives, I never did understand that whole color wheel thing.

2000 Presidential Election



2004 Presidential Election



Multi-pigmented Monkeys, not just for Curious George coloring books anymore...

Well, according to your map, and the population centers of this country, the majority of gophers and field mice prefer Bush, I guess America has spoken!

Originally posted by 27jd
Well, according to your map, and the population centers of this country, the majority of gophers and field mice prefer Bush, I guess America has spoken!

I wonder how Bush won the popular vote by a nice margin if all that red is field mice and gophers. He won the majority of American voters so yes America has spoken.

About dividing the nation it really just seems like sour grapes to me. We already had a Civil War and its wasnt pretty. Im from a blue state and I would fight to preserve the country as a whole rather then side with anyone that would want to split it up.

[edit on 4-11-2004 by ShadowXIX]