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The Marlboro Man Leaves the Building (part two) - The E-Cigarette Controversy and benefits of nicoti

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posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 12:12 AM
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I have been going to a stop smoking program for people that have a problem stopping at the VA

The doctors there don't recommend E-Cigarette's because of the source of the nicotine compound in them being from China.

Under US laws even ones that claim they are made in the US could be using nicotine shipped in from china in 55 gal drums and packaged into the cartridges in the US and labeled US made.

As with anything from china who know what is in the product.




posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 12:12 AM
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5 benefits of smoking:

1. Smoking lowers risk of knee-replacement surgery

While smokers might go broke buying a pack of cigarettes, they can at least save money by avoiding knee-replacement surgery. Surprising results from a new study have revealed that men who smoke had less risk of undergoing total joint replacement surgery than those who never smoked.

The study, from the University of Adelaide in Australia, appears in the July issue of the journal Arthritis & Rheumatism. What could be the connection? Knee-replacement surgery was more common among joggers and the obese; smokers rarely jog, and they are less likely to be morbidly obese.

After controlling for age, weight and exercise, the researchers were at a loss to explain the apparent, albeit slight protective effects of smoking for osteoporosis. It could be that the nicotine in tobacco helps prevent cartilage and joint deterioration.

2. Smoking lowers risk of Parkinson's disease

Numerous studies have identified the uncanny inverse relationship between smoking and Parkinson's disease. Long-term smokers are somehow protected against Parkinson's, and it's not because smokers die of other things earlier. [10 Easy Paths to Self-Destruction]

The most recent, well-conducted study was published in a March 2010 issue of the journal Neurology. Far from determining a cause for the protective effect, these researchers found that the number of years spent smoking, more so than the number of cigarettes smoked daily, mattered more for a stronger protective effect.

Harvard researchers were among the first to provide convincing evidence that smokers were less likely to develop Parkinson's. In a study published in Neurology in March 2007, these researchers found the protective effect wanes after smokers quit. And they concluded, in their special scientific way, that they didn't have a clue as to why.

3. Smoking lowers risk of obesity

Smoking — and, in particular, the nicotine in tobacco smoke — is an appetite suppressant. This has been known for centuries, dating back to indigenous cultures in America in the pre-Columbus era. Tobacco companies caught on by the 1920s and began targeting women with the lure that smoking would make them thinner.

A study published in the July 2011 issue of the journal Physiology & Behavior, in fact, is one of many stating that the inevitable weight gain upon quitting smoking is a major barrier in getting people to stop, second only to addiction.

The relationship between smoking and weight control is complex: Nicotine itself acts as both a stimulant and appetite suppressant; and the act of smoking triggers behavior modification that prompts smokers to snack less. Smoking also might make food less tasty for some smokers, further curbing appetite. As an appetite suppressant, nicotine appears to act on a part of the brain called the hypothalamus, at least in mice, as revealed in a study by Yale researchers published in the June 10, 2011, issue of the journal Science.

No respectable doctor would recommend smoking for weight control, given the toxic baggage accompanying cigarettes. This recent Yale study, however, does offer an inkling of hope for a safe diet drug to help obese people control their appetites.

4. Smoking lowers risk of death after some heart attacks

Compared with non-smokers, smokers who have had heart attacks seem to have lower mortality rates and more favorable responses to two kinds of therapy to remove plaque from their arteries: fibrinolytic therapy, which is basically medication; and angioplasty, which removes the plaque by inserting balloons or stents into the arteries.

There's a catch, though. The reason why smokers have heart attacks is that smoke scars the arteries, allowing fat and plaque to build up in the first place. So, one theory as to why smokers do better than non-smokers after such therapies is that they are younger, experiencing their first heart attack approximately 10 years before the non-smoker.

A study published in an August 2005 issue of the American Heart Journal, however, states that age alone is not enough to fully explain the survival differences and that "the smoker's paradox is alive and well." No alternative theories have been put forth since.

5. Smoking helps the heart drug clopidogrel work better

Clopidogrel is a drug used to inhibit blood clots for those patients suffering from coronary artery disease and other circulatory diseases leading to strokes and heart attacks. Smoking seems to help clopidogrel do its job better.

A study by Korean researchers in the October 2010 issue of the journal Thrombosis Research builds upon work by Harvard researchers published in 2009 that demonstrates the benefit of smoking at least 10 cigarettes a day. It seems that something in cigarette smoke activates certain proteins called cytochromes, which convert clopidogrel into a more active state.

www.livescience.com...



posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 12:17 AM
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Im stuck on these stupid metros. Turns out I am allergic to vegetable glycol , and most companies mix that in the mix. Most people that are allergic, are allergic to the propylene glycol,. but woe is me lol.

I LOVED my volt the best, but the vg made me ill. I tried buying my own juice and blanks but it would not burn rite.
I tried my friends EGO , but it killed my throat, and it was the juice I bought , maybe that made it a bad experience, but I do not know a vender I trust that sells 100 percent VG. soooo plain ole metros for me. ...

The metro cartos are hit and miss. A lot of times I get leaky cartos, or empty ones. Need some serious quality control here. I think there is a big market in this, but investors will be afraid because you never know what the FDA will pull, or how it will be taxed in the future. I know a lady that makes her own juice, from tobacco leaves, so she is set even if this is made illegal.

I would love for someone to tell me where i can find some good quality PURE VG mixed with DW (distilled water) in the USA. Then I may buy an tank system.
I smoke these things all over, hospital, (they let me) verizon store, (got some funny looks there ) Target, lol I dont care. With a tank though, people might think Im smoking something else. LOL

I want to add, one thing that does concern me is the lactic acid that is produced from smoking these. I have long suspected that Lactic Acid production is a link in ALS. People who get ALS tend to be athletes, people who stress their muscles, over long periods produce more lactic acid, and it is bad on the neurons.
People with ALS have a higher amount of lactic acid in their body.

I still smoke them though, as I have anxiety issues, and smoking these is better than beating people lol
edit on 30-4-2013 by amatrine because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by digital01anarchy
yeah water vapor in your lungs all the time will make you sick, e-cigs made me sick two weeks after using them i had a realy bad cough "I know what your thinking its because you don't smoke real cigs anymore and your lung are getting out the crap bs" I have quit smoking for a year "patches" and I can tell you it didn't effect me like that crap did! It has a battery inside it which is used for the vaporizer to burn the liquid which cant be good lol water+battery usually = corrosion to the exposed metal. Used the blue e-cigs they cost a small fortune one refill doesn't= 2 packs it lasts for 45 mins its bs


1) The exhaled vapor is NOT "water vapor". That is a marketing thing. While I don't approve of misleading the public, when someone thinks you're smoking, it's easier to say 'it's just water vapor' than to say 'don't worry, it's propylene glycol'. How many people even know what that is? I inhale actual water vapor from the humid Houston air, and it doesn't make anyone "sick".

2) If you quit by using the patch, you are part of a very small minority. The success rate for the patch and gums are about 10%. There's also many who have heart palpitations due to too much nicotine being absorbed at one time.

3) It doesn't "burn" the liquid, the heating element "atomizes" it. Hence the name "atomizer".

4) The battery terminals are chrome-plated brass or copper, they don't corrode or rust with the tiny amounts of liquid that can leak onto them (due to the way some are designed). You just periodically wipe it off. A small price to pay for remaining cigarette-free.

5) If your only experience is with BLU, then I can see why you were disappointed with THOSE e-cigs. The fact is, most cigarette sized models ARE over-priced and aren't satisfying. You are also correct that it's a flat out lie when they say 'equals one pack!' or 'equals 2 packs!'. That is why many of us are concerned about the regulations and legislations that are being pushed RIGHT NOW as we speak.

If we don't stop them, the only e-cigs that will be available will be the over-priced, ineffective, cigarette sized models. Right now there are e-cigs that are so satisfying, a 50 year smoker can quit OVER NIGHT! There is nothing as effective to help smokers quit, and we have certain groups lobbying to ban or severely restrict them. It is outrageous, it is pure evil, and it needs to be stopped.

If you smoke and would like to make the switch, or know someone who has tried to quit but can't, go to Vaporsearchusa.com and see if there is a brick & mortar store close to you. That way you can try one of the better models out. Your local tobacco or head shops may carry them too, but at prices much higher than you can find online. If you need any help, please let me know, and ACT NOW! The effective models will be banned or highly taxed in the very near future.

edit on 30-4-2013 by BanTv because: edit [/quote
edit on 30-4-2013 by BanTv because: whoops



posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 04:44 AM
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reply to post by amatrine
 


Thank you for bringing up lactic acid! It's an issue I hadn't heard about. Apparently PG can cause problems for people with poor dental health as well. I let soda ruin my teeth, and now that I'm in the process of getting them fixed, I'm doing everything I can to slow any further decay. Might just carry a travel toothbrush in my pocket now.

I found a few good threads about PG and lactic acid Here. Looking through a few of them (one with links to studies), I'm not worried about it. It is good to know though, just in case someone starts having PG related issues they can find out how to relieve them.

I can't tell if you're needing 100% PG or 100%VG. You said 'most people are allergic to PG, but I'm allergic to VG', and then said you need 100%VG with DW. Are you SURE you're allergic to one of them? I was having issues with juices, but it turned out to be the terrible juice from the tobacco shop close to me.

Also, as far as health goes...I wouldn't touch a cartomizer. I want 0% chance of inhaling melted plastic if the "polyfill" sponge goes dry. Yuuuuuck. IMHO



posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 07:34 AM
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reply to post by divideandconquer
 


Most of what you mentioned is the positive effects of NICOTINE. Inhaling burning smoke is in no way good for us. Nicotine on the other hand, is proving to have some positive side-effects. Unfortunately, anti-tobacco zealots have turned into anti-nicotine zealots due to big pharma funding. It's repulsive that nicotine by itself is being demonized by the anti-tobacco nazis. Even with studies showing it may prevent Alzheimer's and dementia.



posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by ANNED
I have been going to a stop smoking program for people that have a problem stopping at the VA

The doctors there don't recommend E-Cigarette's because of the source of the nicotine compound in them being from China.

Under US laws even ones that claim they are made in the US could be using nicotine shipped in from china in 55 gal drums and packaged into the cartridges in the US and labeled US made.

As with anything from china who know what is in the product.


If this program doesn't help you quit, disregard what these ignorant fools are telling you! If you have a problem, you think of a solution, you don't just give up. Are there pre-filled devices made in China? Yes. Would I buy them? No.

Pre-filled cigarette sized trash is NOT the only kind of e-cig!

I buy pharmaceutical grade liquid nicotine and make juice myself. You can also buy American made juices. Is the nicotine extracted in Asia? Yes. But where do you think they get nicotine for the gums and patches? The nicotine supplier I buy from gets their nicotine from Asia, but it is processed and certified USP pharmaceutical grade HERE. They use the same lab that Johnson & Johnson uses for their nicotine. Nicotine that probably comes from Asia. It doesn't matter if they piss on it over there, what matters is that the end product is close to 100% pure nicotine.

Don't believe what they're telling you. Big Pharma demonizing e-cigs=conflict of interest.
edit on 30-4-2013 by BanTv because: whoops



posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by lakesidepark
 


I've been known to light up a cigar or two and don't wish any sort of bans on nicotine, but to say it is "proven to be non-toxic" is absolutely not true. Here is a link to over 600 academic papers discussing nicotine toxicity:
]Pubmed search nicotine toxicity
Nicotine is used in various insecticides. Since it is a neurotransmitter, overdose kills like "nerve gas."

If you understand the physiology of nicotine, you understand both the positive and negative affects. Nicotine is a neurotransmitter and there are second order receptors for nicotine throughout the system. The positive cognitive effects you describe are due to activation of such receptors and there is some very good research going on involving nicotine in the treatment of dementia.

OTOH, one of those second order receptors is on the smooth muscle of arteries and can cause vaso constriction and reduced blood flow which is why nicotine can interfere with peripheral circulation, reduced wound healing, and in extreme long term use, can lead to necrosis and amputation.

Not to say that some people may benefit from limited use nor to say that some disease states may actually benefit from nicotine as part of a treatment, however, one must not say that it is completely harmless or without side effect potential.



posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Headshot
Regarding the cognitive benefits of tobacco use, one need only remind themselves of how Sherlock Holmes solved intense problems.



That is, with three pipes.


He also shot up coc aine and the occasional morphine.



Use of drugsHolmes occasionally uses addictive drugs, especially when lacking stimulating cases. He believes the use of coc aine stimulates his brain when it is not in use. He is a habitual user of coc aine, which he injects in a seven-per-cent solution using a personal syringe that he keeps in a Morocco leather case. Holmes is also an occasional user of morphine but expressed strong disapproval on visiting an opium den. These drugs were legal in late 19th-century England. Both Watson and Holmes are continual tobacco users, including cigarettes, cigars, and pipes, though this was not an uncommon habit during this era. Holmes is an expert at identifying tobacco-ash residues, having penned a monograph on the subject.

Dr. Watson strongly disapproves of his friend's coc aine habit, describing it as the detective's "only vice" and expressing concern over its possible effect on Holmes's mental health and superior intellect.[19][20] In later stories, Watson claims to have "weaned" Holmes off drugs. Even so, according to his doctor friend, Holmes remains an addict whose habit is "not dead, but merely sleeping".[21]

In the Nicholas Meyer pastiche The Seven Percent Solution, Holmes is successfully treated for this addiction by Sigmund Freud.




posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by NavyDoc
 


Yeah, I saw "non-toxic" and had a laugh. I have bottles of nicotine that is 10% pure. A drop on my skin could send me to the hospital. A drop on a non-smoker or child would kill.



posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by sicksonezer0

Originally posted by lakesidepark
reply to post by sicksonezer0
 


Whoa dude. All you had to say was NO and NO. There is no need for the obscene acroynym. They WERE questions....not accusations! And they were presented in a reasonable manner, unlike your reply!

Have you had your e-cig yet? Little snippy I say.

I was frankly replying based on my perspective, offering your perspective in a CIVIL MANNER is all that is required and should have been obvious.

I appreciated your first response. The second...should be edited or removed by moderators as uncivil ando over the line!



That's why I edited it out, =P

Sorry if i was rude.

Im a little snippy because of my analog wife, if they only had ewives, id be set.

edit on 28-4-2013 by sicksonezer0 because: (no reason given)


E-wives and e-girlfriends are possible:
archer.wikia.com...



posted on May, 3 2013 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by JohnPhoenix
 


Thanks for the advice man.

I got my volcano ecig in last night, and yeah, it definitely gives you that kick. I don'tthink I care for their full flavor juice though, so I am going to have to shop around a bit.

I'll check out the stuff you recommended.



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 01:58 AM
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reply to post by BanTv
 


No, it is the VG I am allergic too. I am allergic to many products that contain VG, and did not figure that out until I had VG reaction on ecigg. Then I looked up what products contain VG, and a Huge DING DING DING moment.
I am allergic to the solution used to dilate my eyes, ( made with VG) , when I had allergy testing done, I was allergic to every single thing they tested! Over 50 things! Well, the allergy shots are used in a base with VG.
Laundry detergents, many medications, it suddenly made sense why I was allergic to the world!!

I then looked up VG allergy and there are many people that suffer it . It is rare, but so many products contain it, makes it hard. Now as far as medictions, I now have no idea if its the medication , or the VG they use as a binding agent in pills, and capsuls. I am allergic to at least 80 medications. It is easier to list what I am NOT allergic to!

They also use VG to give certain medications by IV, and those medications I could take in pill form but not Iv, I would get a reaction but would when infused. Eciggs thanks to them, I figured this out!!
For now I am using the PG, but also do not appreciate the side effects of dry mouth and muscle pain, and am just using it now to quit. I have 2 ego 510 and my back up metros. Down to 12 mg, and still going down.

Yesterday I gave my volts(808) away, that contain VG in the cartomizers, and without thinking took a drag to show my friend how they work, and had an instant reaction, and asthma attack, and rash. .. Yuckk.

I have clearomizers, but want to switch to a bottom coil system as well, do not like the burnt taste , and the dripping issues. .

I think the industry is great, but really needs quality control and more health studies. They found DIY in one ecigg, (deadly ) and what worries me are the cheap juice producers in china using it as it is a cheaper base.
The first place I ordered juice from, was real bad, and I had not researched at that time, I just hope I did not inhale any of that stuff.

So I am in favor of ecigg, but also see the need for more testing, and quality control. ... I just hope ten years or twenty down the line we do not see an explosion of ALS cases. I really do believe there is a link with lactic acid and ALS. , when it is in high concentration in the body it attacks the neurons.



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 07:33 AM
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Interesting to read other peoples' experiences. I have been using an e-cig for around three months now. Went from 30 a day to zero, just like that. Nothing else worked for me from patches and gum to cold turkey and every point of the compass in between, but this has finally got me off the cigarettes.

I'm only using a standard cigarette shaped 510 mini e-cig, but I find with low resistance cartomisers it gives just the right amount of thump on 18mg juice in an Innokin carto. Settled on the Liqua tobacco flavours as the most cigarette like experience, everybody I know who has tried this combination has been really surprised at just how close it is to analogs. And I don't work for either of those companies, I'm just saying whats working well for me. The financial benefits are good too; I live in the UK and we pay the equivalent of around $12 US a pack of premium brand cigarettes.

The negative for me has been my taste buds coming back to life after 20 years of cigarettes. I seem to have become hyper sensitive to sweet tastes. Anything with a hint of sweetness got overpowering for a while - even e-cig juice. That's fading away now but new users might want to be aware that this can happen. Just stick with it and don't be tempted to go back on the cigarettes.

Most worrying thing right now is that the EU are thinking of bringing e-cigs into the regulatory framework drawn up for tobacco products, no doubt after lobbying from the tobacco and pharma companies. Basically this will reclassify them as medicinal products and mean that they can contain no more than 4mg of nicotine per ml. That's of no use to anybody who is using e-cigs as either a smoking cessation aid or a cigarette substitute. If you live in the EU it couldn't hurt to get in touch with your MEP and let them know how e-cigs have benefitted you and let them know how this legislation would break them. Because governments listen, right?




posted on May, 5 2013 @ 09:38 AM
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If they do have the ban, will they also ban the purchasing of PG or battery devices? You can make your own juice as long as you can buy the equipment.

Pain in the butt though. Rite now they are not super popular, but as they get so, I see the companies trying to get them banned. In the US in the 80's they had a smokeless cigarette. It was eventually banned.

RJ Reynolds is getting into the Ecigg business and is supposed to be coming out with one. If you can not beat them, join them, if other makers follow suit, I suspect it will be taxed as other tobacco is an no longer cost effective. .



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by amatrine
 


It's a good question, I imagine it would be approached in much the same way as e-cigs are dealt with by Canada right now.

You do raise a good point about governments losing tax revenue from tobacco sales, and my partner and I were having just this discussion at home recently. Basically, we figure they will find a justification somehow. The question is what will the unintended consequences/ collateral taxation damages be. It's hard to see how you can put a tax on something made of a battery and some very common and widely used chemicals without that spilling over into unrelated areas.



posted on May, 5 2013 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by lakesidepark
 


This is ridiculous. Smoking cigarettes can lead to lung cancer, circulatory problems, and a host of other health problems. Stating that it's somehow worth it because nicotine makes you more alert is like saying that being shot is ok if the bullet has a peppermint coating.



posted on May, 6 2013 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
reply to post by lakesidepark
 


This is ridiculous. Smoking cigarettes can lead to lung cancer, circulatory problems, and a host of other health problems. Stating that it's somehow worth it because nicotine makes you more alert is like saying that being shot is ok if the bullet has a peppermint coating.


A Ridiculous Response from someone that OBVIOUSLY did NOT read any of the subject matter, and responded with the typical knee-jerk reaction common to all those activists that like to fight and don't bother to learn what it is they are fighting. Read a thread title, make an assumption, and since the item in question is supported by an 'evil smoker' then it MUST be an 'evil' idea. These are Dangerous people I say.

Does ANYONE in this thread promote smoking tobacco-fired cigarettes???? I think NOT, if anything we are denouncing it (as smokers) almost as vigorously as the anti-smoking zealot I suspect you are.

A recap for you:
I noted that research has found beneficial effects of nicotine, and that these effects are some of the reasons smokers are reluctant to quit, and the e-cig alternative is a route to giving up the CANCER-CAUSING agents of traditional tobacco cigarettes WITHOUT giving up the nicotine that is present in them.
Further I noted that nicotine itself is NOT a carcinogen.

I suggest, instead of smokers shooting themselves to get a taste of the peppermint coating (your analogy), that smokers use this soft pillow to beat themselves up with instead of the gun, and still get their candy too.

And wrapped it up by pointing out that knee-jerk activists without knowledge (is that YOU I am speaking to??) - will react to this new innovation with the typical 'harm elimination', 'unknown dangers', and 'just save that one child it'll all be worth it' storyline,

These activists that made it their career to fight the 'evil smoker' will not accept that this 'reduces harm' immensely to millions (by REMOVING all the tar, carcinogens, toxins, and particulate matter that you did not happen to mention is the primary CAUSE of the damage of smoking - NOT the nicotine), and these activists will be tools for the government to expand their taxation of all of us when they find they no longer get their income to 'save the kids' from all the tobacco tax they put in place, and have to find another way to rob us all.

Did I dumb that down enough for you???

If not, and you still do not understand, then ask questions, but don't reply unless you are responding to what I wrote, and not what you think the title of the thread suggests I wrote.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 01:15 PM
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I found another interesting link to a study written by the Boston University School of Public Health and published in the Journal of Public Health Policy, discussing the benefits vs. the harm of electronic cigarettes.

Electronic cigarettes as a harm reduction strategy for tobacco control: A step forward or a repeat of past mistakes?

A summary of the conclusions - is that, although there are no long-term studies on the effects of electronic cigs, there is significantly more knowledge on the effects of the components of the electronic cigarette, even more than the information available on the thousands of chemicals that come along with smoking tobacco. This is because the chemicals of e-cigs are few (in many cases less than 10), and all have been extensively studied, and all are already approved by the FDA for uses in food, cosmetics and pharmaceuticals. This is as opposed to tobacco, which contains thousands of chemicals, of which only a few THOUSAND have been identified; contains particulate matter and solids, and many known carcinogens, and NONE have been approved as safe for long-term human consumption.

Their conclusion is that the harm can be no greater than using a nicotine patch, and is magnitudes less than continuing to smoke. Further, there is evidence that this strategy of alternative / replacement to tobacco stands to be much safer and more effective, again by magnitudes, than the current strategys of NRT (nicotine reduction therapy) and complete cessation as methods to permanently kick the habit of tobacco. And finally, an act to ban the sale and use of electronic cigarettes can stand to do more harm than good, as there are already a user base of millions that may otherwise return to tobacco; therefore enacting a ban at this time damages the public rather than helping it.

My suggestions to those that support this - yes do support all efforts to keep them out of the hands of minors, and recognize there will not be a return to the old days of 'puffing anywhere' simply because it would not be appropriate to use anywhere that may influence minors to use them....but keep them on the market, and available to those that have chosen to use them, and allow owners of businesses that cater to adults (bars, restaurants, etc.) to allow their use if that business owner so chooses.

Otherwise, the FDA, and Big Tobacco, and Big Pharma, in concert with the feds, will find a way to shut this down and stop this emerging product from taking a chunk of their markets, their profits, and their taxes. It is those entities that have the MOST to lose from this product gaining a foothold on the tobacco market and stripping their 'save the kids' tax base, their income from treating the illnesses of smoking, and finally their huge markets that are based on smoking tobacco.



posted on May, 14 2013 @ 01:45 PM
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1 year 8 months analog free here.......

I use a Silver bullet, with a genesis rebuildable atty.......

Love the thing....

I quit smoking because it was killing my vocals as a singer, and because of the smell and many other factors, plus it hurt my workouts immensely.......

Now.......I have NONE of those problems........also my allergies are virtually gone........


Kudos with anyone who gets with it and sticks with it!






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