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A Ship Gliding Over Nothing - God Reads our Word

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posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 10:29 PM
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Rumi the Sufi is my favorite poet and mystic philosopher. One of the poems I am reading tonight is especially good.

As you read, consider this as a reflecting point:

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

POEM WITH COMMENTARY

RUMI: Only union with you (GOD) gives joy.

--Union with God happens in the waters of baptism. Mater is the Mother. Mater is where we derive Mother, Material, Matrix and Matter. Mater raises children as a veil over the soul. It is the same as the wool pulled over the eyes of the sheep as the Shepherd protects the sheep. Part of that protection is the wool, as symbolized by our progress through the wilderness. The wool is sheered each season to make way for the next cycle. The wool is washed white as snow and returned as a new Robe in the end. We are the ones writing our own book and weaving our own future.

RUMI: The rest is tearing down one building to put up another.

--This is the opposite of union with God. Division from unity is simply the cycles of time as we tear down one creation and put up another. As Christ said, "You must be born again." Baptism is our immersion into the matrix (Womb) of reality. The seasons change and you must be born again. The sheep sheds the wool each season for the express purpose of clothing with finer linen. In many places in the Bible, the believer and faithful are clothed with a new Robe (body) and Crown (Mind). We cast those crowns at the feet of our Shepherd (Bow to His authority).

RUMI: But don't break with forms! Boats cannot move without water. We are misquoted texts, made right when you (GOD) say us.

---How do we view ourselves? Reading our own book from outer forms and thoughts is not nearly as meaningful as how God reads us. We misquote our own text. God speaks it clearly. We must listen and water is the medium for the process. Baptism is our immersion into this water of life. Amni is the water of life. Amnio is the bowl that catches the blood of the lamb. Amnion is the sack covering the fluid of the womb. Amniotic Fluid is the water of the womb. Amnesia is the forgetfulness as the wool is pulled over the eyes. Amnesty is the forgiveness by the sacrifice of the beast in the fire. Water puts out fire.

RUMI: We are sheep in a tightening wolf circle. You come like a shepherd and ask, "So how are you?" I start crying. This means something to anyone in a body, but what means something to you (GOD)?

---The sheep continually finds himself in a circle of wolves. Today, the sheeple are surrounded. Eventually, the shepherd comes to remove the wolves and rescue the lost. To the word occupying a body, this means something. To God, he reads our hearts. What does it mean to God?

RUMI: You can't be spoken, though you listen to all sound. You can't be written, yet you read everything. You don't sleep, but you're the source of dream vision, a ship gliding over nothing, deep silence, praise for one who told Moses on Sinai, "You shall not see me."

---In the Masnavi, Rumi mentions the fact that all things in nature have opposites, but God has no opposite. Light reveals what it hits, yet we do not see light. Since God has no opposite, he remains hidden. We cannot speak God, read God or wake from this sleep of the soul, yet God is there gliding over this nothingness and illusion of word. The still small voice is still heard, the words are read and our soul wakes from its sleep. We see God with faith, yet our eyes only see the mother written in the book of the Lamb.

Psalm 19

1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
3 They have no speech, they use no words;
no sound is heard from them.
4 Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.
In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun.
5 It is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber,
like a champion rejoicing to run his course.
6 It rises at one end of the heavens
and makes its circuit to the other;
nothing is deprived of its warmth.

In Hebrew tradition, marriage is consummated when the groom returns from building the new home. We travel this wilderness and know inside where we are from.

RUMI: You're from a country beyond this universe, yet your best guess is your're made of earth and ashes. You engrave this physical image everywhere as a sign that you've forgotten where you're from!

Each time Rumi says you, he means God.

Genesis 1:27

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Is the oak tree the acorn or is the acorn the oak tree? Neither. Each is the essence of information that expresses form. Each is the word that created them. Words can be saved or lost.

What is the Christian always telling the lost soul? REPENT! We are immersed in the waters of life for one reason. Baptism is why were choose to be here. Rising to new life requires our work to climb. We're never alone. Christ sacrificed himself so that the one loaf of bread could be split into slices. The cross in the first century was only a symbol for what took place before the creation of the universe.

Colossians 1

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Corinthians 10

17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

Who is the heel of the loaf?

1 Corinthians 15

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

What does the heel accomplish in the Material world?

Genesis 3

15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

The head rules the body. Christ is the head of the church. We, who are many, are ONE loaf. Many veins; one blood. The blood of the lamb covers sin. Amnio is the bowl that catches the blood.

John 2

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

edit on 27-4-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 11:55 PM
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Good post, S&F.

While I agree with almost everything in this post, I get the feeling we're still not on the same wavelength.

Do you see baptism as representing something other than birth? You explain baptism in a way that I agree with, but I don't think we come to the same conclusion. I see baptism as allegory for birth. We are all baptized by water and spirit the moment we're born, the amniotic fluid being water and our spirit being, well... the spirit.

The new robe is our new body and the new crown (mind) is our new perspective on life. The Son (Jesus) is all of us, as our image is the image of the invisible god (which is who we are, the One loaf).

I don't buy into the idea that Jesus came to die for our sins, he only came to instruct us on how to break from the bondage of spiritual oppression.

Why would Jesus teach that love is what saves then turn around and nullify all that he said by dying for our sins?
edit on 28-4-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Good post, S&F.

While I agree with almost everything in this post, I get the feeling we're still not on the same wavelength.

Do you see baptism as representing something other than birth? You explain baptism in a way that I agree with, but I don't think we come to the same conclusion. I see baptism as allegory for birth. We are all baptized by water and spirit the moment we're born, the amniotic fluid being water and our spirit being, well... the spirit.

The new robe is our new body and the new crown (mind) is our new perspective on life. The Son (Jesus) is all of us, as our image is the image of the invisible god (which is who we are, the One loaf).

I don't buy into the idea that Jesus came to die for our sins, he only came to instruct us on how to break from the bondage of spiritual oppression.

Why would Jesus teach that love is what saves then turn around and nullify all that he said by dying for our sins?
edit on 28-4-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


RUMI: One day a falcon invited a duck to leave the lake and see the high plateau. The wise duck said, "Water is my source and fortress, my peace and joy. Don't tempt me with where you love to be. You have soaring gifts. I love this low marsh." The duck stayed in the stronghold where it felt complete. And you, be patient where you sit in the dark. The dawn is coming.

--- The work of salvation is not our work. The heel crushes the head. He is the beginning and the end looking forward and back at us in the water. In reality, the cross is the sacrifice that was made at the beginning, middle and end. God has already been here and the Son is being raised in the wilderness. The prodigal must return to the Father. What is learned from the journey makes him a man. The Son must die so that he can be reborn.

Involution and evolution is the unbalanced force against the object in motion. We are involved so we can rise to new life. God already has arrived. The reason we have the opportunity to do the same is because of the sacrifice God made in sending His Son (First born over all creation) to live, die and rise with us. Two become one and more are created. We are involved so we can then have fellowship with the one who has already risen on high. From one grain of wheat come a thousand sheaves.

A grain (Seed) must be broken to allow what is inside to express to form.

edit on 28-4-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


What do you mean by "two become one and more are created?"

I already know what it means (in my opinion), I'm just curious of what you think it means. Thanks in advance.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 06:31 AM
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Very good post.

I would never be able to get all of that out of those small verses without rambling.

Pray for me, a useless and stubborn sheep.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


What do you mean by "two become one and more are created?"

I already know what it means (in my opinion), I'm just curious of what you think it means. Thanks in advance.


They mystery that we can read about in all cultures is the same mystery revealed in the Bible. If you compare the Word (Tree of Life) to what we find in nature, we see some startling comparisons that are mirrored above and below. For instance:

There are 22 letters in the Hebrew language and 24 in Greek. Hebrew is a Agrabio linguistic. It is concrete and based on the land. Greek is an abstract language based on mathematics, quantities and qualities in ratio. Together, there are 26 letters. With DNA, there are 22 proteins that render the form of the body from information. There are 2 sets of 22 chromosomes with 2 sex chromosomes. In total, there are 46 chromosomes that render the body like sets of words, sentences and paragraphs of proteins from amino acids. What we see above in nature is mirrored below. The same is true for each direction we can look. When complete, the human is Soul and Spirit ; Right and Left brain and so on.

Temperature is one thing, but two become one. Where does hot begin and cold end? Where is the mean? All opposites are merely one thing.

When the sun (Sol) and Moon (Luna) come together, we have life on Earth as a result. When sperm and egg come together, we have life in another womb. When man and woman come together in love, then produce more offspiring. All opposites come together to produce more. The final union is that of Soul and Spirit. We must find union with God from a foundation of love. He already loves us. The womb of this development is in the water of the Earth and the matrix (Womb) of the mother (Mater).

All of this starts with Hydrogen. Hydrogen has one proton and one electron, but no neutron. Each is a balance of positive and negative in union. When the neutral is added, we have the elements, but the proton and neutron are still together in the middle. The electron is moving about. Compare this below to the two thieves on the cross with Jesus in the middle. One repented (Proton) and the other made the choice to move his own direction in separation.

Emerald Tablet (Strong and weak nuclear forces):

0) Balinas mentions the engraving on the table in the hand of Hermes, which says:
1) Truth! Certainty! That in which there is no doubt!
2) That which is above is from that which is below, and that which is below is from that which is above, working the miracles of one.
3) As all things were from one.
4) Its father is the Sun and its mother the Moon.
5) The Earth carried it in her belly, and the Wind nourished it in her belly,
7) as Earth which shall become Fire.
7a) Feed the Earth from that which is subtle, with the greatest power.
8) It ascends from the earth to the heaven and becomes ruler over that which is above and that which is below.
14) And I have already explained the meaning of the whole of this in two of these books of mine.

All of physics is tied together in those 14 lines.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by backcase
Very good post.

I would never be able to get all of that out of those small verses without rambling.

Pray for me, a useless and stubborn sheep.


Yes, and this is the entire reason we are here in the refinery. We are two becoming one. The stronger overcomes the weaker. Impenetrability is the state in which two things cannot occupy the same place. With all of us, there is a battle raging inside between the Soul (Animal nature / Emotion / Desire) and the Spirit (Intellect / Law / Self-Control). Both cannot occupy the same space. The stronger overcomes the weaker. As the pendulum swings, two become one and something new is created. When God said that His creation is good, he meant it. Faith makes things possible, not easy. The struggle across the wilderness to the promised land is arriving at our inheritance.

Deuteronomy 4

19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. 20 But as for you, the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are.

21 The Lord was angry with me because of you, and he solemnly swore that I would not cross the Jordan and enter the good land the Lord your God is giving you as your inheritance. 22 I will die in this land; I will not cross the Jordan; but you are about to cross over and take possession of that good land. 23 Be careful not to forget the covenant of the Lord your God that he made with you; do not make for yourselves an idol in the form of anything the Lord your God has forbidden. 24 For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

The Iron Smelting Furnace of Egypt is (Earth). We are refined here, then our treasure is on the other side waiting by what we bind and loose here. We are refining our new self there. The Jordan represents the waters of baptism into this life. We are scattered like sheep. We are all headed, season after season, to the land across the Jordan. On one side is John / Elijah and baptism. On the other is Christ assisting us across. The sheep cross, but the Shepherd stays behind.

1 Corinthians 10 has a HIDDEN SECRET.

If you get the secret in the link above, you can then see clear to understand John 3.

John 3

26 They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”

---- Jesus was baptizing on the other side. This is the same as Moses leading the sheep across the wilderness, their sinfulness, and the ultimate scattering of the nations. We are the ones being brought across the Jordan.

27 To this John replied, “A person can receive only what is given them from heaven. 28 You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Messiah but am sent ahead of him.’ 29 The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30 He must become greater; I must become less.”[h]

--- In this union, we are the bride (Church) on this side of the Jordan. The bridegroom is Christ. The union that RUMI speaks of us the union of Soul and Spirit. If you are understanding this, your Soul has joy and hears the voice. This indicates to whom you belong.

31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. 33 Whoever has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. 35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

---Our Soul knows the voice and we know it is truthful by the Words written in our hearts. God speaks our text and we hear it.

After this land of refinement, we inherit this in the Heavens and new Earth:

Deuteronomy 6

10 When the Lord your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, 11 houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied, 12 be careful that you do not forget the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.


edit on 28-4-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


If there is a Father and a Son in the Trinity, then where is the Mother?

Father consciousness, Mother Earth, and the Son (Mother and Father combined to form One), that is the true Trinity in my opinion. We are the Trinity because we are the physical (Mother) and non-physical (Father) combined into One (Son).

When Jesus was speaking of himself, he was by extension speaking of everyone else.


John 2
24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.


Jesus knew what was in each person because he knew what was in himself. What was in him is in each and every one of us. We all have god within us and Jesus was no more special than you or me. Understand that when I say that, I am not lowering Jesus in any way, I am only raising us up. As Jesus said, the Son of Man (us, because we do not worship the true God, hence "Man") must be raised up. That was his gospel, that we are no different from him.

Thanks for the explanation.
edit on 28-4-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


I'm sure there are more ways to see this,but to me, the Father and Son are accompanied by the Holy Spirit (Female). From where I stand, the spirit is consciousness, although I think Rumi says somewhere that the Soul is Consciousness, which matches the idea of the Spirit pervading in and through everything. Light can also be seen in this trinity. Particle and Wave comprise matter. Matter that is animated by consciousness is Spirit. Wave is Logos / Word. Particle is the the Father and all three together. Heaven and Earth are embodied by the higher and lower dimensions. Most of this is unseen. We are the image of the whole. It's a mystery and none of us really know.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


As I see it, the Father IS the holy spirit, it is what makes us tick. The female aspect of the Trinity is the Mother, or Earth/physical existence. All they did was remove the Mother then add in the Father a second time, except as the "Holy Spirit" in my opinion.

Why would they exclude Earth (Mother) from the Trinity? So that they could exploit Her resources and in turn enslave us through that exploitation. We see the effects of Her suppression today, the world is dirtier and more polluted than it has ever been before, and her removal from the Trinity is the root cause in my opinion.

If they would have included Mother Earth in the Trinity, they wouldn't be able to exploit Her as easily and they wouldn't be able to become rich off of her resources. Also, if they taught that Earth was a critical and important part of god, people would realize that this is heaven and they would have no leverage for their teachings.

It's also very refreshing to see a Christian admit that they do not know, I also do not know, but I think I'm on the right track.
edit on 28-4-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 02:26 PM
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The Trinity is preexistence. Matter is created and born continually. It would not be accurate to say that the Mother is Earth as the Earth is the embodiment of something behind the veil. When we speak of the veil over the temple, we are speaking of a copy that veils us from seeing. Matter is that veil, just as the mother's womb is the veil for the baby. The womb / Veil is a protection from contamination and the environment for growth. When a baby is born from the mother's womb, the womb is dead. The baby then enters the next womb of the Earth into new light and new ability. This is part of the wool over the eyes as we rise to new life. Father, Mother and Son are imaged above and below as copies of what they actually represent.

Hebrews 9

23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

An image is a copy.


Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


As I see it, the Father IS the holy spirit, it is what makes us tick. The female aspect of the Trinity is the Mother, or Earth/physical existence. All they did was remove the Mother then add in the Father a second time, except as the "Holy Spirit" in my opinion.

Why would they exclude Earth (Mother) from the Trinity? So that they could exploit Her resources and in turn enslave us through that exploitation. We see the effects of Her suppression today, the world is dirtier and more polluted than it has ever been before, and her removal from the Trinity is the root cause in my opinion.

If they would have included Mother Earth in the Trinity, they wouldn't be able to exploit Her as easily and they wouldn't be able to become rich off of her resources. Also, if they taught that Earth was a critical and important part of god, people would realize that this is heaven and they would have no leverage for their teachings.

It's also very refreshing to see a Christian admit that they do not know, I also do not know, but I think I'm on the right track.
edit on 28-4-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


We are proof of preexistence. Consciousness has been around forever and will continue to exist forever. We are preexistence.

The church is the copy that you speak of, they aren't the true Bride of Christ. The Earth (physical existence) is the true Bride of the Father (consciousness). They are two sides of the same coin. The physical world may be the veil, but it can be lifted.

The reason it could be considered a "veil" is because it hides the true eternal nature of the universe. Matter deteriorates, and since we see the world constantly deteriorating around us, we assume that we too will deteriorate and eventually vanish with time. That is not true because we are not physical beings, but spiritual ones. We are eternal in nature, just as the universe is, except time hides that fact.

I don't think it is just a coincidence that Peter, the founder of the church, means "rock" in Aramic. The Earth is made of rock, which in my eyes means that the church usurped the role of the Mother/Bride. They prevent us from lifting the veil by suppressing our eternal nature.
edit on 28-4-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 03:33 PM
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Peter is petros, the movable stone. The stone will be rolled away to reveal an empty tomb (Earth / Matrix) after the birth of the new heavens and earth. Petra is the Cornerstone (Christ). It is the stone that cannot be moved. While the church makes an idol of the material, God is showing that the cornerstone is what the church is founded on--Giving. God's will is to give and receive only and we are not to worship the created, but the Creator.

Deuteronomy 4

19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. 20 But as for you, the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are.

Peter denied Christ three times, symbolic of the three days of Jonah (Sign of Jonah) and the three days to raise the temple. The first century was the end of day 4. Three remain. Christ said if they destroy the temple (His body), he would raise it again in three days. Jesus also told Peter, "Get behind me Satan." He told him to fish on the right side of the boat. When he did, he caught 153 fish, which is the sign of the fish from Pythagoras. It is the Vesica Pisces and the difference between unity and multiplicity. What is this difference? It is taking rather than giving and the church was founded on the rock that cannot be moved, not Peter. Peter will be rolled away to reveal the true church founded on giving. It's a narrow way and few find it. The true temple is not founded on the material, but on the far country that is our true home. The veil is a refinement process to diffuse this light until we can seek God ourselves. It's a concept known as involution and evolution.

Involution and Evolution


Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


The church is the copy that you speak of, they aren't the true Bride of Christ. The Earth (physical existence) is the true Bride of the Father (consciousness). They are two sides of the same coin. The physical world may be the veil, but it can be lifted.

The reason it could be considered a "veil" is because it hides the true eternal nature of the universe. Matter deteriorates, and since we see the world constantly deteriorating around us, we assume that we too will deteriorate and eventually vanish with time. That is not true because we are not physical beings, but spiritual ones. We are eternal in nature, just as the universe is, except time hides that fact.

I don't think it is just a coincidence that Peter, the founder of the church, means "rock" in Aramic. The Earth is made of rock, which in my eyes means that the church usurped the role of the Mother/Bride.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


But didn't Jesus (supposedly) say that Peter was the rock that he would build his church on? If the church sits on the foundation and Jesus said that he would build his church on the rock (Peter), that means Peter is the foundation that the church is built on. He also said that the gates of Hades would not prevail against the church. Do you disagree with that?

How do you plan on moving the rock if the church sits atop it? To move the rock is to destroy the church and all of it's teachings, because a building cannot stand without its foundation (Peter, the rock/foundation that the church was built on).

You don't find all these pagan themes within the miracles suspicious? Pagans are the ones who legalized Christianity. That points me toward pagans tampering with the story personally. The verse you quoted says not to bow down to the stars and heavenly arrays, so why are the miracles based around the heavenly arrays?



edit on 28-4-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-4-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 04:27 PM
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Here is the thread I did on this: Peter - Rock Rolled Away


Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


But didn't Jesus (supposedly) say that Peter was the rock that he would build his church on? If the church sits on the foundation and Jesus said that he would build his church on the rock (Peter), that means Peter is the foundation that the church is built on. He also said that the gates of Hades would not prevail against the church. Do you disagree with that?

How do you plan on moving the rock if the church sits atop it? To move the rock is to destroy the church and all of it's teachings, because a building cannot stand without its foundation (Peter, the rock/foundation that the church was built on).

You don't find all these pagan themes within the miracles suspicious? Pagans are the ones who legalized Christianity. That points me toward pagans tampering with the story personally. The verse you quoted says not to bow down to the stars and heavenly arrays, so why are the miracles based around the heavenly arrays?



edit on 28-4-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-4-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Petra / Petros

"I say also unto thee [to Peter], That thou art Peter (petros), and upon this Rock (petra) I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). The text indi­cates clearly that the church of Christ is built on petra and not on Petros. Christ is the Petra. Petra is the stone the builders (Masons) reject. They take rather than give.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


So why did he mention Peter before saying that? What was the purpose of him calling Peter by name? If Jesus was "petra", wouldn't that mean he was a woman? Why would he use the feminine form of the word if he was a man?

Do you believe the church has been infiltrated? Also, if Peter was Satan, why are his teachings part of Catholic doctrine and Christian doctrine in general? And the pagan themes within the miracles? What do you think of those?
edit on 28-4-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)
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posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


"So why did he mention Peter before saying that? What was the purpose of him calling Peter by name? "

---He was giving room for repentance. Each of the disciples are personified as foreshadowing of future events. Peter denies Christ three times. This world is also a trial and judgment of the Watchers. Satan is given reign over mankind and mankind is charged with overcoming the enemy. Ultimately, Christ is the one that overcomes. Light shines and reveals what it hits. All of us are here now to see the wicked judged. The wicked have been given opportunity to repent.

"If Jesus was "petra", wouldn't that mean he was a woman? Why would he use the feminine form of the word if he was a man? "

---Male and female are symbols of more than superficial gender. They are pointing to the role each plays. The Father is the strength of the house, but the mother is the sustainer of the house. In the example, Jesus was telling Peter where the right side of truth is. God is the Father and our job is not to rule on Earth. Our job is to recognize the true sustainer of the world and to then take care of the sheep. Instead of serving as the Shepherd (Mother), Peter choose to be served. Jesus knew this outcome before it happened.

"Do you believe the church has been infiltrated? "

---Of course it is. Our entire existence is divided against itself. This is allowed to reveal each heart.

"Also, if Peter was Satan, why are his teachings part of Catholic doctrine and Christian doctrine in general?"

---He didn't say he was Satan. He showed Peter where his actions were embodied.

" And the pagan themes within the miracles? What do you think of those?"

Enoch stated this clearly. The Pagan Mysteries are shadows of the true mysteries from heaven. They are the worthless version. The Bible is not a shadow of the Mysteries. It's the other way around.




edit on 28-4-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


I'm not sure how your repentance theory applies here. How does that fit in with Jesus building his church on the rock? He doesn't allude to anything dealing with repentance, could you clarify a bit?

If gender isn't relevant, then how can you be so sure he wasn't talking about Peter in that instance? If Jesus would describe himself femininely, then how can you be so sure he wasn't doing the same with Peter? How do you explain Jesus giving Peter the keys to heaven in the verse directly after that one?

Why would god complicate things by allowing Satan to reign over Earth? That just makes it harder on the ones he loves, which doesn't seem like a very fatherly thing to do. It's kind of like throwing your kid in a pit of poisonous snakes then expecting him to get out on his own without being bitten. Not very fair in my opinion.

If the shepherd is the Mother then wouldn't that mean Jesus was the Mother and not the Father?

So you disagree with Jesus when he said the gates of hell would not prevail against the church?

So the miracles are worthless mysteries? That's what I'm getting out of your answer here. Why would Jesus incorporate worthless mysteries into his gospel?

ETA: Don't take these questions as me attacking you, I'm just picking your brain a little. I think you have an awesome theological approach to the bible (which is why I'm starring you), though I still think your conclusions are a little off the mark personally.
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posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 07:18 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Your questions are based on surface information and literal reasoning. All of what is said should be seen by the light of how I interpreted the original poem. For example, the rock is symbolic of the cornerstone set into the building by the Mason. If a builder sets the wrong stone or in the wrong alignment, the building will eventually fail. The cornerstone in this case is Christ, yes, but is the character of what Christ stands for, which is giving. The rest of what you are asking is not presupposed by this one verse, but by the overall context of what is stated in all of scripture. The best way to read the Bible is to look at the context and meaning of symbols used. The real story is read by the symbols and realizing that symbols are like words. They have more than one meaning and layer. The temple is the building, but it is also the body and the Earth. It depends on how it is used and in what context. In the end, the Bible is not read by us, but will be used as the text when we are properly taught. Right now, we can only speculate and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

Repentance is a turning away from sin. You can turn, but you will never stop sinning. Sin is not the problem. The problem is the desire to place authority on your own head rather than on that of God. Even Christ will hand over all authority to God as a sign of his trust in God.

1 Corinthians 15

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Christ places his Creation (Macrocosm) under God, just as we place our own microcosm in Christ. We have authority over trillions of cells in the body, all functioning according to our head. We are the body of Christ, all functioning in the same manner. Each is a temple for God. We are a temple for Christ. Below (Earth) is a temple for us now. The cells in the body cannot survive apart from our own mind. We cannot survive apart from hosting those cells. As above, so below.

edit on 29-4-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)





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