Police 'Taser Fireball' Death Investigation

Originally posted by Timely
reply to post by justwokeup

 

I am saying you can not be sure that he does not hold an ignition source.
Therefore, approaching him is not an option. Which non lethal form of neutralising the suspect would you choose ? Bearing in mind, it would be a choice you must make on the spot, with limited kit.

It doesn't sound as if they had the luxury of calling specialists. ie; beanbags.?

If he's carrying a lighter and he's covered in fuel I wouldn't do anything except call back up and try to reason with him.

Are you suggesting that the situation was so severe that burning him alive was the best option?

I doubt it was. I also doubt the police involved expected him to go up in flames. They just didn't think it all through in the heat of the moment. Which is why I was suggesting it wasn't Negligence. They probably weren't trained to deal with people doused in petrol.In stress you do what you are trained to do.

The word Taser should be taken from our language.

Call them what they are, cattle prods.

reply to post by justwokeup

If the training says 'use the taser' then people will revert to their training under stress...

...They probably weren't trained to deal with people doused in petrol.In stress you do what you are trained to do.

These are fair points. But, tellingly, if you take a look at the related thread referred to in the OP, "Man set alight after being hit with taser", it dates back to July 2009.

At the very least the senior officers responsible for training should be up for criminal negligence. Perhaps even Corporate Manslaughter...

Originally posted by Magister

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by benrl

 

True. But your premise that this abrogates the police of responsibility for this man's death is bunkum.

You call the police to defuse a situation. Not to set a match to light a member of the public — whom they are paid to protect.

Ah...but they are not paid to protect the public! They are paid to protect the system. If the public benefits, it is purely by chance. Laws are in place to promote order. This order makes it easier to conduct business and protect "assets".

Gotta go with the General on this one. In the fictional world of code-enforcement and code-enforcement officers, they are NOT paid to protect and serve the public. That "Protect and Serve" on the side of the cars they drive around refers to the commercial court system. It's been a long time since it referred to 'the people'.

reply to post by seamus


I have to admit Magister got me thinking with that post.

I suppose I was talking in generalities, in layman's terms, rather referring to a textbook concept. Is it really no longer possible to expect the police to act with the interests of the citizens at heart?

And surely there's a difference between say, a protest march —where maintaining order is an understandable priority— and a domestic situation? The guy who was killed certainly wasn't threatening 'the system'!

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by justwokeup

 

If the training says 'use the taser' then people will revert to their training under stress...

...They probably weren't trained to deal with people doused in petrol.In stress you do what you are trained to do.

These are fair points. But, tellingly, if you take a look at the related thread referred to in the OP, "Man set alight after being hit with taser", it dates back to July 2009.

At the very least the senior officers responsible for training should be up for criminal negligence. Perhaps even Corporate Manslaughter...

It does not - this story refers to an incident on the 18th of April 2013 in Plymouth, Devon.

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
The word Taser should be taken from our language.

Call them what they are, cattle prods.

But the population isn't cattle;
Remember, they are referred to as "sheeple"

reply to post by HelenConway


Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was referring to "Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:" linked to in the OP.

That (—similar—) incident occurred nearly 4 years ago!

Shocking tragedy. I posted a thread in breaking alternative news 2 days ago, but mine got moved to other current events, so got half the attention

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by HelenConway

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

I was referring to "Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:" linked to in the OP.

That (—similar—) incident occurred nearly 4 years ago!

Oh I see - I seriously think the police by and large are a bit thick -... for all the reasons mentioned by posters on this thread. I agree cattle prods they are - cattle prods plus - even

Originally posted by Timely
reply to post by justwokeup

 

I am saying you can not be sure that he does not hold an ignition source.
Therefore, approaching him is not an option. Which non lethal form of neutralising the suspect would you choose ? Bearing in mind, it would be a choice you must make on the spot, with limited kit.

It doesn't sound as if they had the luxury of calling specialists. ie; beanbags.?

Therefore the cops should kill him right away. Correct?

To put this into perspective, what sort of person douses themselves in petrol?


I'm leaning towards not mentally stable and possibly suicidal.


Now what are you supposed to do with someone who is dangerous to themselves and to the public? You've got to stop them anyway you can while minimizing risks. If someone is covered in petrol and is presenting himself or herself as a threat, what would you do ? run away?

Well the LE can't run away, he has to deal with the situation and in the time allotted to him due to the quite obvious mental instability of the aforementioned 'victim'.


Do you...

1. ) wrestle a crazed petrol soaked man to the ground while risking the chance of immolation.
2. ) hope that the tazer makes him stop
3. ) blow his head off, he's seriously asking you to kill him

4. ) take your sweet time to search for an alternate method, take your time and post a thread asking for advice for this specific scenario.



It's either do or die, if you had to play a magnetic game of chess while in freefall...how well would you do?

I wonder sometimes, if they ever have trouble getting to sleep, after killing a human. I suppose murder is the more correct term, not like it was an accident.

To murder someone and go about your life as normal.... Something about that just not quite right.

Sure he was a fool for pouring gasoline on himself, but another human had to decide, I'm going to tase this gas covered mofo and let the chips fall where they may.

I'd expect at the very least a bit of remorse every night, laying there before you drift off thinking about the life you caused to end. Perhaps they are able to justify in their own minds and just consider him less-than human. What happens if they ever consider You or I, less-than human?

Tragic, avoidable loss of life.

reply to post by Knives4eyes

I'm leaning towards not mentally stable and possibly suicidal.


Now what are you supposed to do with someone who is dangerous to themselves and to the public? You've got to stop them anyway you can while minimizing risks. If someone is covered in petrol and is presenting himself or herself as a threat, what would you do ? run away?

I think you're right about his mental state. But he was in the garden, not marauding around the neighbourhood. I suspect all that was needed was someone with the skills to know how to calm him down by talking to him in the right way. The human touch.

As opposed to 50,000 volts...


Then again, it seems the taser squad like to practice their art wherever they can:

Blind man tasered as cops mistake stick for sword

reply to post by Knives4eyes


In this case, a wood shampoo might have been preferable. To immolation, that is. They have more than one tool in the box.

Originally posted by Timely
reply to post by justwokeup

 

It doesn't sound as if they had the luxury of calling specialists. ie; beanbags.?

Police need a specialist at the scene to realize that sparks ignite gasoline now ?

Next up : Every police officer gets his own specialist secretary to do their paperwork because a lack of Basic education limits their read and writing skills.

Do any of you remember that naked crazy guy in New York City that was standing on top of a rollup door with a 4' light bulb who was tazered and fell 8' to his death after his head cracked open upon hitting the sidewalk? He was a threat to public safety too I suppose/.

It is a growing trend and frankly I don't see why it matters what weapons they use to kill civilians, they are still killing them and if the general public is ok with being killed by the clowns they pay to protect them, well I guess I must be a lot stupider that I thought I was. Sorry, kill me next, please!

reply to post by justwokeup


Having read the linked story, there really is not enough information to make an educated comment.

As I understand it, Bobbies do not carry guns. They do however have truncheons and tasers at their disposal.

We do not know if this person was coming at the police, refusing commands to stop or get on the ground etc.
In which case, I would use the taser as the most effective way of halting the advance and protecting myself.

Not enough information on this to simply blame moronic policing.

I would gladly be the first one to berate the police for their stupidity and misconduct, but to be honest in this case I am not as angry as I have been in other cases. I can understand how something like this could happen, unlike many of the other atrocities we read about online and sometimes hear about on the news. I would not have guessed that a taser would have caused the fuel to combust in such a fashion, but I agree that this device is constantly misused, and there should be an investigation into what went on. Too often police officers are cleared of any wrongdoing when they clearly were wrong, and deserved to be punished.

So out of curiosity I'll put this this forward.

Said man who had poured petrol over himself was at a servo station and ran crazy spraying fuel everywhere from the bowser.

Would they still of tazed him???? kinda scared of the outcome of that thought