If your city is on "lock-down", do NOT look outside.

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Originally posted by etombo
reply to post by inverslyproportional

 

Yes, cigarettes caught this guy. Go big tobacco!! Just playin, I see what you are saying. I am not criticizing the police because I do not know of a better plan on how to catch the guy. A lot of people are critical of the police but you know what? I do not think any of them have offered a legitimate alternative to hunt the guy down. Paint me a picture please. Imagine you are a police officer and you are hunting down a guy who possibly killed a colleague, severely injured another, car jacks a guy, throws some bombs at you and some sort of grenades. One gets killed in a shoot out and the other flees. What do you do? You talk about the tanks etc.. I feel like you're comparing it to a massive militarization. This wasn't fallujah man, this was not a major military operation. Did I miss the Abrams tank going through the neighborhood? Can you share a picture of what you believe a tank is?

edit on 29-4-2013 by etombo because: (no reason given)

I had to follow up this post....I believe that 12 years of constant war and 24/7 conditioning of the public to being perfectly ok with it, along with the militarization of our police for is what has produced American citizens who can actually look at something completely abhorrent to all of us pre 9/11 and now cheers for it, while at the same time justifying the entirely un-American catastrophe(which is the militarized police response to the Boston bombing search for one wounded suspect, resulting in the insane "shelter in place" order)....

"This wasn't Fallujah".......pretty close in terms of strength...I believe they said 9000 militarized police showed up to hunt two common criminals labeled Boston terrorists...compared to 10,500 soldiers that responded to Fallujahs 3700- 4000 battle hardened insurgents....Just think about that for a second...you really don't see a problem with that? You really think that was "appropriate"....

"Did I miss the Abram's tank"....For gods sake man, the "Police officer" is siting in the turret of a military Humvee with a machine gun pointed at a citizen(who was just ordered to stay in his home)??? Surrounded by 20 or so "Police officers" clad in military uniforms with machine guns, flack jackets and combat helmets! There were Black Hawks flying around, the only combat vehicle that wasn't present was a Abram's Tank.

And yet, here in lies the problem...Americans have become so completely terrified, utterly scared s#@tless, that you look at this as appropriate, you huddle in your "shelter in places" and pray that someone, anyone, will save you from the "big bad terrorist"...now these same scared Americans will beg to have their rights to carry bags at sporting events..taken away. Drinks? Could be liquid bombs, so you'll have to drink those in a designated drinking area at your local sporting event. Our children enduring full body pat downs like they already have to do at our airports..As if..it's sickening and a sad day for every American. You just know our fore fathers are doing somersaults in their graves right now.

And all this because the government labeled two common criminals as terrorists.

By the way, I'll paint you a picture...everything you said happens...the kid speeds off ditches his car and they find the blood in the car...they know he's wounded(and for all we know there was a massive amount of blood and they knew he wasn't gonna go far period)..so they do what they do for any normal search for a criminal...set up multiple perimeters..and check all cars that come and go...tell the public to be on the look out and report any thing suspicious...wait him out. And in the end, as it has been noted, a citizen was the one who found him after there insane shelter in place order was lifted. The bottom line is it was all simply just a sick show of extreme force, and how militarized they have become(the Police), they were just waiting to show it off for the public and jumped at the chance to say.."See this is how we get down now...try and oppose us".

Scary stuff. I know they are the good guys but they look like thugs there. The picture seems to have been worth taking though, to show what it was like, the side of the story not talked about as much. The manhunt looks to have been extreme, like looking for a batman villain.

And yet, here in lies the problem...Americans have become so completely terrified, utterly scared s#@tless, that you look at this as appropriate, you huddle in your "shelter in places" and pray that someone, anyone, will save you from the "big bad terrorist"...now these same scared Americans will beg to have their rights to carry bags at sporting events..taken away. Drinks? Could be liquid bombs, so you'll have to drink those in a designated drinking area at your local sporting event. Our children enduring full body pat downs like they already have to do at our airports..As if..it's sickening and a sad day for every American. You just know our fore fathers are doing somersaults in their graves right now.

The problem is that people are sick enough to warrant these kinds of things. You think if a drug cartels sick enough to put coc aine in a hollowed out dead baby they aren't sick enough to put a bomb on a kid at an airport?

So ask yourself what makes it sick and sad, that Americans are giving up liberties to the government, or that societies behavior even begins to warrant that sort of thing. They didn't have nukes, coc aine, machine guns, weapons grade anthrax, crystal meth, airplanes, skyscrapers, or C4 to deal with when they drafted the Constitution, after all. They would be somersaulting just as much over our own behavior.

Now here's something for you; I like to go to concerts to listen to music. Nobody said squat when they stopped letting us take blankets, purses, bags, and were subjected to searching. That stuff hit the airports post 911 and all of the sudden people were pissed.

reply to post by BellaSabre

Oh yeah. Let's all pretend for a moment that losing your limbs is no biggie. A prosthetic is JUST LIKE having real legs and feet. Alrighty then............. fake legs, real legs; makes no difference to you. To me it does. To some people it does.Ever seen the problems caused where the prosthetic joins the remaining part of the limb? The infections, blisters, lesions, soreness, and time lost to healing until you wear them again? 

You seem to suppose that I have never known a person that is missing a limb. You suppose that I have never made the repeated trips to the hospitals for refitting and treatment of infection.

One thing I will not do is place those people in a category where they CAN'T DO ANYTHING for themselves or anyone else. You basically said that these people are helpless... they need people that believe in them, not you.

I recently read that one of the bombing victims that lost a leg was a dancer... she says she will dance again, I believe her.
Who is pretending here?

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by DoubleDNH

 

Dude are you kidding? You see the pictures and still don't believe?

Phillipines was a warzone under a dictator. WTH does that have to do with two chechens in boston?

I was giving you a real example of martial law. This was a day they asked you not to go outside... there is a big difference.

We each have our own feelings on the subject... I can absolutely understand how you may feel the way you do but I do not agree with you. I still feel that the police were doing their job and had the good of the people in their minds, especially the state and local police who were involved in the operation as they were protecting their friends, their neighbors and their families..

reply to post by DoubleDNH

This was a day they asked you not to go outside... there is a big difference.

I will agree that martial law was not declared.

But to say that what happened during the lockdown in Watertown area was just... 'being asked not to go outside', well that isn't the whole story now, is it?

Don't go outside, even if you don't we may bring you out of your house and handcuff you.... we might suppose that you have an explosive vest on... 'you senior citizen, you!', we might drive down your street in military vehicles (not ones like the military uses.... actual military vehicles), we might point assault rifles at your children's heads, we might, we might, might....

Might HELL, they did those things!

Characterizing it as being asked 'not to go outside' isn't completely accurate.

Originally posted by jprophet420

The problem is that people are sick enough to warrant these kinds of things. You think if a drug cartels sick enough to put coc aine in a hollowed out dead baby they aren't sick enough to put a bomb on a kid at an airport?

So ask yourself what makes it sick and sad, that Americans are giving up liberties to the government, or that societies behavior even begins to warrant that sort of thing.

Maybe the cartels got the idea from the heroin being shipped back inside dead soldiers' bodies being brought back from Vietnam.

Becoming well-adjusted to a sick society is no indication of good mental health. Let's quit treating the symptoms and begin re-nourishing the body America. We can start by bringing back a good, healthy regimen of old-fashioned Liberty again. It's good for the soul.

I don't think 1 or 2 criminals on the run pose the kind of threat implied by the presence of "military".

I could have stopped them cold with a handgun.

Originally posted by DoubleDNH

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by DoubleDNH

 

Dude are you kidding? You see the pictures and still don't believe?

Phillipines was a warzone under a dictator. WTH does that have to do with two chechens in boston?

I was giving you a real example of martial law. This was a day they asked you not to go outside... there is a big difference.

We each have our own feelings on the subject... I can absolutely understand how you may feel the way you do but I do not agree with you. I still feel that the police were doing their job and had the good of the people in their minds, especially the state and local police who were involved in the operation as they were protecting their friends, their neighbors and their families..

edit on 30-4-2013 by DoubleDNH because: (no reason given)

Do you really believe that?? The same way they have the "good" of the people in mind when those same people want to protest something? Without even a nano second of thought they suit up in riot gear, riot helmets, shields, clubs, sonic weapons, and giant bottles of pepper spray..and will happily fill your face with it just for sitting and refusing to move during a protest.

They only had one motive, the police were attacked, challenged, and now its payback time...It was a hunt to kill operation all the way...You think they accidentally blazed forty some shots at a wounded, unarmed man??? It's a flat out miracle he wasn't killed then...and if the media and the countless other superiors hadn't been directly on scene.. he would have been killed. Nah, there was never a "good of the people" in their minds...they do not think like that anymore. They act strictly out of political pressures and their authority being challenged personally.

Does it look like the state and local police are up in arms concerning the hundreds of children being killed in places like Chicago every year?? Heck no...public killing public...and as long as the politicians don't mind, and their not being challenged personally, they could care less.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

Originally posted by jprophet420

The problem is that people are sick enough to warrant these kinds of things. You think if a drug cartels sick enough to put coc aine in a hollowed out dead baby they aren't sick enough to put a bomb on a kid at an airport?

So ask yourself what makes it sick and sad, that Americans are giving up liberties to the government, or that societies behavior even begins to warrant that sort of thing.

Maybe the cartels got the idea from the heroin being shipped back inside dead soldiers' bodies being brought back from Vietnam.

Becoming well-adjusted to a sick society is no indication of good mental health. Let's quit treating the symptoms and begin re-nourishing the body America. We can start by bringing back a good, healthy regimen of old-fashioned Liberty again. It's good for the soul.

edit on 30-4-2013 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)

What "liberties brought back" would have stopped this bombing? And do explain how. Thanks.

Originally posted by DistantThunder
I could have stopped them cold with a handgun.

Because you knew, better than everyone else, including the FBI, DHS, Boston SWAT and other LEO's that these kids didn't have accomplices, back up, booby traps, more powerful explosives at their disposal or fully automatic weapons at their disposal.

You just knew that right - when no one else did. Just you and your handgun.

reply to post by neformore


You really need to get a grip. All your post here sound like you are very scared. Life really isn't as dangerous as you think.
Terrorist attacks are very rare, and to think this is oh so much scarier than a home invation or mass shooting, or whatever crime, and warranted this response is just silly.

Think about it how weapons and bombs and ammo could the wounded kid carry? Was he gonna toss the bomb then make the call to set them off? hows that work?

If you are REALLy that scared you had better stay huddled in your house because there are real threats out there that you have a much higher chance of dying from, say crossing the street. Scary!

Originally posted by jprophet420

What "liberties brought back" would have stopped this bombing? And do explain how. Thanks.

A liberty lost to prohibition that is propagating violence, corruption, and erosion of privacies while profiteering interests spawn political, economic, and street corruption. Its proceeds support warfare, revolutionary upheaval, and terrorism. These types of bombers and terrorists don't hate our people for their freedoms but despise our system for involving itself in their affairs, depriving their liberties. That is one example.

Most people prefer to live free, it's a minority who wish to be nannied and dominated. A great deal of violence and tension would be eased and eliminated with just a few changes, all of which involve greater freedom and choice.

Whatever problems arise from the exercise of liberty pale in the presence of those arising from the lack of it. When searching for the source of an ill it invariably leads back to a restriction being placed on another.

I would like to thank that one individual for offering an alternative tactic to catch the suspects. I have two opinions to write. One is that if I were a police officer going after what seemed to be bombers, I want a rifle and a flack jacket, for me and all my coworkers. Second item, I think it is easy for us to say we went to far with the police presence but when I think about people affected I wonder if we did enough in preventing the bombing. With that in mind I wouldn't want to leave any chance at a repeat if I saw an opportunity to capture the suspects. In another dimension on the website there are people saying that we did not do enough to capture them because in another place they continued their rage. There is nothing any of you could say to change my mind and I know that is the same for you, I do however appreciate the conversation and thank you for your various positions.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by DistantThunder
I could have stopped them cold with a handgun.

Because you knew, better than everyone else, including the FBI, DHS, Boston SWAT and other LEO's that these kids didn't have accomplices, back up, booby traps, more powerful explosives at their disposal or fully automatic weapons at their disposal.

You just knew that right - when no one else did. Just you and your handgun.

Why not?

You have been acting as though it is perfectly reasonable to think they had all the above.

I know maybe they could have just pretended they "knew" they had a nuke, I mean why rule anything out right?

This is why you assess a threat based off of facts, not an over active imagination that is scared of everything that moves.

There was no actionable intel they had anything you named. It is called logic and reasoning, they didn't use a armed 100 man hit squad with a full combat deployment of military grade fire power, so why would anyone in their right mind react as if they had it?

This was a broke ass family, on .gov benefits, that used a bomb that anyone could have built for less a hundred US dollars.

Why act like it was somthing it wasn't?

Do you imagine every psycho is a full military invasion? Are we doind that now? No? Well good, because that is stupid as hell.

Just saying what should be obvious.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional

I doubt your are a very objective observer, as it is obvious to many of us with actual training and experience in this exact type of situation, that you know nothing of what your talking about. So your observing is in error, and of a completely unrealistic nature.

I see a picture of a man pointing a gun at someone taking a picture from a second story window. Obviously I missed what happened a half a second before this picture was taken. Maybe you could clue us in? Should I assume he was pointing his weapon at everything that moved, or should I assume that he looked through the scope after noticing movement in the window?

Too be honest, I DON'T KNOW because I have nothing else to go on. But you, on the other hand, seem to possess some kind of spidey sense that gives you an edge in this whole observation thing. Or is it your elite training that allows you to rewind and fast forward still shots?

Originally posted by Bone75
Should I assume he was pointing his weapon at everything that moved, or should I assume that he looked through the scope after noticing movement in the window

Neither one of those is the proper response be it unidentified movement or simply flashing everything in his sector.

Fact remains the man in the turret is poorly trained at best dangerous at worst.

Originally posted by Bone75

Should I assume he was pointing his weapon at everything that moved, or should I assume that he looked through the scope after noticing movement in the window?

Too be honest, I DON'T KNOW...

I doubt any of us here know that either. This could be just one of those split-second photos that was caught at precisely the right moment. Now it is a horrifying instant frozen in time presaging a chilling future.

Some thought to themselves it couldn't happen here. Now it does.

Originally posted by Golf66

Originally posted by Bone75
Should I assume he was pointing his weapon at everything that moved, or should I assume that he looked through the scope after noticing movement in the window

Neither one of those is the proper response be it unidentified movement or simply flashing everything in his sector.

Fact remains the man in the turret is poorly trained at best dangerous at worst.

Then maybe one of you experts can tell me when it IS okay to point your weapon. And while you're at it, tell me what you noticed in the photo that indicates this is NOT that time.

How can you evaluate this guy's training based on a still shot with no other information to support the photo?