If your city is on "lock-down", do NOT look outside.

reply to post by Golf66


Going to have to disagree with some of what you said.



There's a good two minutes in there of the British Army deployed on counter terror operations in Northern Ireland.

SAS may operate differently given circumstances, but as I'm sure you are aware, also operate like this against terrorists

reply to post by MrxMulder

Have you been living under a #ing rock these past few weeks?

You spell 'government rock' in a weird way.

reply to post by MrxMulder

How is it baseless if I'm basing my assumptions on previous events?

If you dont get it at this point, theres not much else I can tell you.

Something tells you've grown up needing everything spoon-fed to you, so here you go, try and wrap your brain around it... My point is that the police (ones we pay with tax dollars) have shown nothing but incompetence in the past, so the fact that this "well trained" pig needs to point his gun at someone holding a camera... doesn't surprise me. Was that really too hard for you to comprehend?

Whatever told you that lied to you, but, again, way to try and make this personal Why is it that you guys cant stick to the discussion, and always seem to stray to personal based posts?

Not at all hard to comprehend. Is the fact that you do not know for certain if this guy was even actually aiming at the photog too hard for you to comprehend?

And your point with that exactly? Ok, instead of deflecting, can you address the videos that ARE relevant here? Or will you choose to ignore them and pawn them off as "baseless"? So far, everything that you have stated in defense of this cop seems to be baseless.

The point is that for you to say "well its on youtube" is pretty naive. No deflection. Just truth.
Again, please, tell me what I have stated in defense. You keep claiming it. So go on, prove it. Is the difference between saying that we need to not jump to conclusions and defending the actions that confusing?

I didn't even say shill, that's something you mentioned/put in my mouth. Funny.

Naw, you said "one of them". Pretty much says it all

Were you one of the those dweebs praising your rights being stripped from you as all those "brave" policemen/military that stormed your streets left in their humvees? Yay for a military state! Yay for rifles being needlessly aimed at me! You remind of the jews when they cheered on the SS as they were being shipped off to camps in trains... Clueless.

More ad hom. Still wondering why you cant keep from straying into personal attacks...

Either that or you're butthurt that one of your fellow comrades is being slammed for his incompetence.

Funny, ive been pretty calm throughout this whole thread, even through all the ad homs, namecalling, insinuations, and personal attacks. Some people in this thread are 'butthurt', but it isnt me.

Reply to post by MrxMulder
Nope. And Ive seen nothing that even remotely resembles martial law. Throwing labels around does not mean that they fit.

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

The British Army and SAS were operational in Northern Ireland on a daily basis.

SO1 and SO14 routinely use placed snipers and concealed units when on operation.

MI6 deploy and use armed personnel on counter terrorism operations.

Thanks for the feedback. There was major terrorism in the UK(especially NI) so I guess military operations were rellevant and appropriate there. Just trying to get a big picture in my head as to how different countries react to different scenarios.

Originally posted by neformore
Going to have to disagree with some of what you said.

That is what makes the world go round...

Originally posted by neformore
There's a good two minutes in there of the British Army deployed on counter terror operations in Northern Ireland.

Hate to be nit-picky mate but tactics, techniques and procedures have changed significantly since 1982 and the Paras while very professional are not the equivalent of SAS nor are they law enforcement personnel.

Operators will admit to you as they did me that a lot of the amity they garnered in N. Ireland at the beginning they brought down on themselves with indiscriminate acts of aggression and over-reaction and have since learned that selective enforcement and tracking of individuals pays more dividends than locking down entire sectors of a town and treating everyone like a suspect in hopes of squezing the actors out.

Something like one gets more flies with honey than crap scenario…

Originally posted by neformore
SAS may operate differently given circumstances, but as I'm sure you are aware, also operate like this against terrorists

Of course they do this is a hostage rescue operation something completely different. They are not looking for someone they are there to take aggressive direct action on a set of targets.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Reply to post by MrxMulder
Nope. And Ive seen nothing that even remotely resembles martial law. Throwing labels around does not mean that they fit.

edit on 29-4-2013 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

Nothing which occurred in Watertown resembles martial law. I do not believe for a minute that our government is even remotely close to perfect but I didn't see anyone shot, arrested or even threatened with arrest if they left their homes. The police and other government agencies REQUESTED people stay home and remain in their homes... they REQUESTED businesses stay closed and everyone for the most part agreed and did what they asked.

I understand this is not a popular opinion on these forums but I think they did the right thing and caught at least some of the people responsible for this tragedy. I think there were more people involved and the story which really interests be out of Boston is the girl in the Tufts sweatshirt.. there was a thread on here that quickly derailed and turned into personal attacks but it is the only angle I have not seen discussed in the media which still peaks my interests.

Anyone hear anything or have any updates on this girl?

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Reply to post by MrxMulder
Nope. And Ive seen nothing that even remotely resembles martial law. Throwing labels around does not mean that they fit.

edit on 29-4-2013 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

You're either trolling at this point, or just completely blind (eyes wide shut).

I'm not even going to bother hand feeding you all the videos/photos that DO resemble martial law to you. A little hint though, some are actually scattered in this thread, and one of them you've given quite a bit attention to.

But thanks for reminding me that we're #ed... Hopefully the majority doesn't remain as brainwashed as you because you're what I call a lost cause, and frankly, aren't even worth addressing anymore at this point. Anyone with an actual brain can see what is happening... anyone who doesn't, at this point, most likely never will. Maybe... just maybe you'll know when you're having a gun pointed in your face and/or being hauled off into a FEMA camp.

Originally posted by DoubleDNH

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Reply to post by MrxMulder
Nope. And Ive seen nothing that even remotely resembles martial law. Throwing labels around does not mean that they fit.

edit on 29-4-2013 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

Nothing which occurred in Watertown resembles martial law. I do not believe for a minute that our government is even remotely close to perfect but I didn't see anyone shot, arrested or even threatened with arrest if they left their homes. The police and other government agencies REQUESTED people stay home and remain in their homes... they REQUESTED businesses stay closed and everyone for the most part agreed and did what they asked.

I understand this is not a popular opinion on these forums but I think they did the right thing and caught at least some of the people responsible for this tragedy. I think there were more people involved and the story which really interests be out of Boston is the girl in the Tufts sweatshirt.. there was a thread on here that quickly derailed and turned into personal attacks but it is the only angle I have not seen discussed in the media which still peaks my interests.

Anyone hear anything or have any updates on this girl?

Military clad officers were entering homes without warrants/legal permission... If you don't think that's martial law, we are doomed as a nation.

Is this what you want for your future America?! This is something you really need to think about.



ALL of this for ONE 19 year old kid. God forbid it was a sleeper cell that consisted of members scattered across every state. What would have happened then? Would the entire nation have gone under "lockdown"?

reply to post by DoubleDNH


Again, I live in mass and during the stupid snow storm we were "requested" to stay home or receive an invitation to appear in court with possibility of a year in prison. So your friendly "request" isn't as nice as you make it sound.
They were not just saying it because i called the local police to see what thier take on it was and i was informed that yes i would be arrested.
And i just have to say as an american I DON'T WANT MILITERIZED POLICE COMMING IN MY HOUSE AND WAVING RIFLE AROUND MY CHILDREN.
Why can't any one see the effect it has on them. Is that REALLY what you want for your kids?

reply to post by Golf66


They did, and they have done. But they do still scope, and I would still argue the point with you that the guy in the picture is perfectly entitled to be pointing that weapon where he is given the fact that he had no idea of the intentions of the person that came to the window at that time, especially when dealing with someone with no regard for human life whatsoever, and no amount of 20/20 hindsight from people who want to try and overanalyse it will change that. He didn't pull the trigger, therefore he made the right call.

Again, this boils down to something I've been saying all along. It was an active situation. No one knew what was coming next. No one. People can try and second guess it all day long (and have been doing), but 99.9% of them will never be in that situation, and know what it feels like to be putting themselves deliberately in harms way knowing that there is someone who is armed and has used indescriminate deadly force against civilians and LEO's out there, and who may be looking for their next target of opportunity.

reply to post by MrxMulder

You're either trolling at this point, or just completely blind (eyes wide shut).

Im doing neither, and I truly would appreciate it if you all could stop with the accusations. The fact that I dont agree with you on the subject does not mean I am a troll. It does not mean I am a shill. It does not mean anything except for the fact that we dont agree on this particular subject. I have refrained from any personal attacks in this thread, and I dont think it is too much to ask for you all to return that favor. Its called being civilized.

I'm not even going to bother hand feeding you all the videos/photos that DO resemble martial law to you. A little hint though, some are actually scattered in this thread, and one of them you've given quite a bit attention to.

I suggest that you and your cohorts do a little research on the topic. An over the top LEO response is not at all the same as martial law. Go talk to people that lived through Katrina, and had their homes raided and their guns confiscated and were arrested for basically anything that the military pleased.

THAT was martial law.

But thanks for reminding me that we're #ed... Hopefully the majority doesn't remain as brainwashed as you because you're what I call a lost cause, and frankly, aren't even worth addressing anymore at this point. Anyone with an actual brain can see what is happening... anyone who doesn't, at this point, most likely never will. Maybe... just maybe you'll know when you're having a gun pointed in your face and/or being hauled off into a FEMA camp. signature:

Yep, we dont agree, so I must be brainwashed. I choose the side of rationality, so I must be brainwashed. I request that people stop and THINK for a moment, and to remove their emotions, so i MUST be brainwashed

Thing is, I wont be taken to a FEMA camp, because, while you all, and the other extremists on the other side, are itching for a fight and just waiting for the other side to take the first shot, I will be on the side of peace, and will abide by the knowledge that hatred is never a positive thing.

You are correct about one thing, we are in deep doodoo. Both sides are itching for a fight. It is inevitable at this point. Cooler heads have failed, and only those who want death and destruction are heard now.

Originally posted by snowspirit

Originally posted by Danbones
Funny, he can point a gun at you, but you can NOT point a gun at him...

Or any type of picture/video taking apparatus either...
That'll get ya shot.

thats being ignorant.

hes NOT pointing a gun at the camera man because hes pointing a camera at him. he saw movement in the window. put yourself in his boots. psycho terrrorist on the loose, movement in the window, id rather have my gun pointed at the ready than be blown away if the camera man WAS the terrorist.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Do you have some plan for this path of peace to keep you out of the camps (should that be the case)?

I don't agree that people want violence I think they truly want peace they just think they can bring it about by more violence. yeah, that don't work.

Problem is WE are not choosing violence it is being forced upon us. We are only reacting to a system of violence that is boxing us in. Seems to make people a little edgy, and rightfully so for what should we do twist and turn our very souls to fit the mold they have or want for us.

Do you have any solutions or are you just here to whine about the whineing?

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
I suggest that you and your cohorts do a little research on the topic. An over the top LEO response is not at all the same as martial law. Go talk to people that lived through Katrina, and had their homes raided and their guns confiscated and were arrested for basically anything that the military pleased.

THAT was martial law.

And to a large extent it was deserved there. The streets were flooded with sea water, homes destroyed, shops destroyed, looters were everywhere and anywhere, total pandamonium. Still FEMA was criticised for doing too little and for being a bit late.

But please tell me do you have a problem with DHS getting involved in boston with relative minor damage and only a few suspects to apprehend? Even if they didn't have the best intelligence, given that russia had warned them about those two chechens, how could they have been so over-the-top is impossible to accept. BPD and Massachusets State Police could have handled it just as well imo without those armored personel carriers and SWAT units.

It is all about the threat level that determines the response necessary. Boston was not northern ireland or palestine.

Originally posted by DoubleDNH
Nothing which occurred in Watertown resembles martial law.

I would say that this here resembles martial law to a great degree. People told to stay inside and if not then well…let’s see your papers. For good measure its even military police.

Originally posted by DoubleDNH
The police and other government agencies REQUESTED people stay home and remain in their homes... they REQUESTED businesses stay closed and everyone for the most part agreed and did what they asked.

For those bold enough to flaunt their freedom and move about - well they promptly were reminded that they are not quite that free after all.

Does this man resemble a 19 year old Dzokar? Not in my opinion.



I know they were probably in the end not arrested (in the traditional sense) but I'd say being put face down at gun point and searched while your name was checked against the "lists" is close enough to it to leave an indelible impression on these two guys (who also do not resemble the suspect) that the "request" was backed by the threat of force and next time they will toe the line like good sheep.





The cuffs are a nice touch - I am sure they "requested" he put them on too, you know for his own good.

As they say a rose by any other name will still smell as sweet - Martial Law, Shelter in Place... potAtoes, pOtatoes.

Originally posted by ivbnu
reply to post by BellaSabre

 

What do you mean prove it. He was on a watch list. they should have had an agent asigned to tail him on the day of event. Thier proven.

Oh, tail somebody? I thought you were on the bandwagon of law enforcement not doing anything.
Yeah, I know the history of the "watch list", I was actually wanting you to clarify how "you" could have so easily have solved the problem, and how it's everybody's fault but the maiming murderers.

So again, prove your initial comment. TIA.

reply to post by Golf66

You make it look so much like MARTIAL LAW.

Why you must have photoshopped all that, right? Our govt would never do that.....

reply to post by ivbnu

Do you have some plan for this path of peace to keep you out of the camps (should that be the case)?

Sure do

I don't agree that people want violence I think they truly want peace they just think they can bring it about by more violence. yeah, that don't work.

I believe that used to be the case. Look, this whole thing has gotten kind of funny to me. 99% of the time, I am on the other side of this argument. Golf66 and I have literally gotten warned by the staff for our interactions in similar threads, with each of us arguing the opposite side that we are on in this one.

I have spent years harping about the change in our police force, from public servants to authoritarian symbols. I have spent years denouncing the militarization of our police force. I have participated in dozens, if not more, threads about police brutality. I understand what has happened to this country.

What I see now is nothing but rage, from both sides.

Problem is WE are not choosing violence it is being forced upon us. We are only reacting to a system of violence that is boxing us in. Seems to make people a little edgy, and rightfully so for what should we do twist and turn our very souls to fit the mold they have or want for us.

I simply do not agree with that. We saw an over the top response. We did not see people being arrested for things that were found during the searches. We did not see people being arrested under military rule. We did not see shots fired at civilians.

Do I agree with the response? Not in any way. In fact, it flat out scares me. But to go from being taken aback at the response to accusations of military rule and calls for blowing up officers during a search (yes, that has happened in this thread) is way too far.

I truly feel, in this day and age, violence should be a total last resort. There are avenues of peace, which could change the course we are on. But people have given up on them (heck, many never gave them a chance in the first place), and now, what we have left is "us" and "them", both sides thinking they are in the right, and both sides hoping to get a chance to fight to prove it.

Do you have any solutions or are you just here to whine about the whineing?

And there I was being impressed that there was an entire post that wasnt rude or personal based.

At this point, i think there is no solution. I honestly think people are too deadset on getting their fight for it to go down any other way.

Originally posted by ivbnu
reply to post by DoubleDNH

 

Again, I live in mass and during the stupid snow storm we were "requested" to stay home or receive an invitation to appear in court with possibility of a year in prison. So your friendly "request" isn't as nice as you make it sound.
They were not just saying it because i called the local police to see what thier take on it was and i was informed that yes i would be arrested.
And i just have to say as an american I DON'T WANT MILITERIZED POLICE COMMING IN MY HOUSE AND WAVING RIFLE AROUND MY CHILDREN.
Why can't any one see the effect it has on them. Is that REALLY what you want for your kids?

I agree that there has to be a balance. Do you want them to ignore the situation when there is someone who has killed four individuals through both shooting and explosives running around the city? I have a 10 year old who I obviously would not want to be terrorized by the police either. On the other hand, if the bombing suspect had held a family captive and the police did not locate him because they didn't want to bother the citizens or intrude on their lives, people would be all over them for not doing enough to capture the guy. As far as I can see, the police are screwed either way...

God forbid the city and the police said "Just go about your business as usual...nothing you can do for us" and then a bus explodes in a fireball as people are going about their business as usual... it sucks but its the times we live in and the loons who live around us that we have to guard against. I know there are people who think the danger is in the government and the police but I do not subscribe to that belief for the most part.