If your city is on "lock-down", do NOT look outside.

reply to post by BellaSabre


What do you mean prove it. He was on a watch list. they should have had an agent asigned to tail him on the day of event. Thier proven.

Originally posted by BellaSabre
Some people must have to experience something directly before it effects them.

Do me a favor. Humor me.

Imagine for two minutes that you have no feet.

Now go to the frig to get a drink. OH WAIT! You can't.

Now go to the bathroom and pee. OH WAIT! You can't.

Got to go to work tomorrow. OH WAIT! You can't.

Pissed off yet?

I would be.

Do you know that people with no feet do all of those things?
They really do.
Some actually jog. You really need to read up on wheelchair accessibility and prosthetic limbs.

Now, you could have written 'Clip your toenails' and you would have been correct with that one.

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by inverslyproportional

 

I'm sorry, but you aren't living in the real world where bad things happen if you think that.

You react, and you do it quickly, or you die.

I am amazed at the utter naivety of people posting here. Its like people seem to think its like the movies where the bad guys are poor shots who always miss, or someone fires a warning shot, or there are ways to dodge bullets. Its actually scary to read how people see this and quite disturbing.

Life or death.

Ask the family of cop who got killed whether bad things happen. Maybe he could have handled it differently huh?

Oh wait, he didn't get chance to.

I've been noticing this exact same trend, people turn into Arnold Schwarzzenegger (Spelling ) from behind their computers saying things like "In the movies the citizens have access to these weapons for protection" or "They don't even act this way in the movies" ... In the movies Darth Vader cut his only sons hand off and tried to kill him.... Ewan McGregor is a junkie in the movies.... Mel Gibson is scottish in the movies...

Well in the movies if the wrong person gets "shot" they can simply re-take the scene. If the wrong person does the wrong thing they can re-shoot the scene... In reality however if the wrong person gets shot, that person is probably going to die or at the very least face a world of pain. In reality if the wrong person does the wrong thing it can have major consequences for that person and those around them, including suspects and colleagues alike.

Is this the world we live in today, where grown adults can't even tell the difference between fantasy and real life!?

Peoples heads are so far up their gun-happy arses that it genuinely scares me, and I don't even live in the US!

reply to post by Covertblack


But it SHOULD have been prevented. So what we do nothing about that, and just say oh well the fbi fdup again now we have to settle for a police state?

I don't know if I agree with him pointing a weapon, if this picture is even real, but I wasn't there. A cop had already been killed soon before that so I have no idea what he was thinking. I don't know how scared, or worried he was that the person in that window wasn't someone drawing a bead on him. I don't know if he thought of his wife and kids having to live on without him. I don't know if he thought of all the things he should have done in life. I don't know those things, but I do know that I wouldn't want to be in that position, and honestly I don't know how I would act. Nope, the more I think of it I'm not going to Monday morning QB this whole situation because I don't know.

Originally posted by ivbnu
reply to post by Covertblack

 

But it SHOULD have been prevented. So what we do nothing about that, and just say oh well the fbi fdup again now we have to settle for a police state?

More and more info is coming out about what the FBI did know. If we really lived in a police state they would have dragged these two suspects into a black ops prison for some good old fashioned water boarding. But, that didn't happen because they didn't have enough info to detain these two. Which some of you are complaining about trampling of rights, but in the same breath complain the FBI did nothing. Only now we learn that Russia never told the FBI the whole story, which is why it wasn't prevented. That and because they respected their rights.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
I ask you, where was the probable cause to assume every occupant in every house is a suspect, as this pic would imply?

Which person is the suspect with the loaded weapon pointing at you? Do you know?

Which one has a trigger in their hand ready to blow an IED?

Which one has a vest stuffed with explosives under their jacket that you can't see?

You're in a situation where people have already been killed. Do you know? Can you tell?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

LOVE your post. It's important to me to keep an open mind and not discount the more sinister possibilities. What you say about them acting like civilians is possibly true. And the military actions overseas have proven that the military aren't always exactly by the book... Not to mention the cases of police brutality we've seen right here in the US.

But weren't these guys special forces cops, basically? Were they military? And I haven't seen the clear indications that they didn't have the muzzle and trigger discipline they should have in the Boston situation. What particular incidents are you referring to?

I am actually undecided on the overall picture (contrary to what some assume: that I am an agent for the government and a "sheep" that supports martial law

) and I will continue to look at this situation with an open-mind. I'm definitely NOT going to jump on the bandwagon that the OP and others are clearly on, without some really good evidence. And so far, I have seen NONE. This whole operation was carried out very successfully, IMO.

Not to speak for the wrabbit, but I believe he is alluding to the fact they are pointing weapons, fingers on triggers, at every civie they see, both giant no nos for anyone trained properly.

Unless the military has decided finger on trigger while pointing at everyone you see is now the way to go???????

Wasnt in my days, muzzle discipline and trigger discipline mean, never insert your finger into the trigger housing unless your squeezing off rounds, never point your weapon at anything unless you know it is a target and your about to shoot it.

reply to post by Covertblack


I don't know what dark and scary world youlive in where this is the norm but the fact is this is an extremly rare occurance. Certainly not worthy of rolling out the tanks for. I live in mass and my town has averaged 6arrests over the last 10 years. Surley the world isn't that dangerous.
If you are so concerned about safty of poeple look how many people die from presciption drugs. No really cares about death. 30,000 kids die a day from starvation while fat cat bankers roll thier dice to see plans will work.

Originally posted by ivbnu
reply to post by Covertblack

 

I don't know what dark and scary world youlive in where this is the norm but the fact is this is an extremly rare occurance. Certainly not worthy of rolling out the tanks for. I live in mass and my town has averaged 6arrests over the last 10 years. Surley the world isn't that dangerous.
If you are so concerned about safty of poeple look how many people die from presciption drugs. No really cares about death. 30,000 kids die a day from starvation while fat cat bankers roll thier dice to see plans will work.

Don't act as if I condone the starvation deaths, but that isn't the current discussion.

They rolled out tanks?

I think this entire thing, which would bankrupt a region or person quite quickly is made to make people get very upset, so they will willingly hand away their constitutional rights and be willing to tolerate murder by drones without trial.

reply to post by Covertblack


I have not said anyones rights were violated. They did know the suspects and putting a tail on the wouldn't have violated thier rights and would have been the prudent thing to do for those tasked with the job of detecting terrorist threats.

reply to post by Covertblack


I don't mind doing the Monday morning QB. They overreacted with military on the streets.

Another poster asked what military unit it was in the pic, implying that it wasn't military.

Look at the words stenciled on the side of the Humvee.... it says Military Police. Note that it doesn't say police.dressed.up and acting like military. They were looking for one 19 year old male.

Funny part... not funny ha ha... they didn't locate him with all their Humvees, helicopters, assault weapons and flak jackets. A regular citizen found him and gee it was 300 yards away from his abandoned car.

Originally posted by ivbnu
reply to post by Covertblack

 

I have not said anyones rights were violated. They did know the suspects and putting a tail on the wouldn't have violated thier rights and would have been the prudent thing to do for those tasked with the job of detecting terrorist threats.

Right, but they don't have the manpower to tail every suspect they have. I like you man, but we are never going to agree on this.

reply to post by Covertblack


Ok no tanks and you love babys. sorry. Its just that there is no excuse for this haveing happened. if the fbi can't stop a couple of amatures whom they where aware of then we seriously need our money back.

This thread demonstrates clearly that,

There are people in this country who will resist a police state
and
There are people who will support and defend it.

The end.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Covertblack

 

I don't mind doing the Monday morning QB. They overreacted with military on the streets.

Another poster asked what military unit it was in the pic, implying that it wasn't military.

Look at the words stenciled on the side of the Humvee.... it says Military Police. Note that it doesn't say police.dressed.up and acting like military. They were looking for one 19 year old male.

Funny part... not funny ha ha... they didn't locate him with all their Humvees, helicopters, assault weapons and flak jackets. A regular citizen found him and gee it was 300 yards away from his abandoned car.

The militarization of the police really did stem from the Hollywood shoot out. It's that the police are now facing military style weapons, which means they need to to also adapt.

I agree, it was a 19 year old male, but look at it this way. He runs into a house and kills an entire family, or escapes completely. Who would it have been on then? Also he may have stayed in the boat because the entire area was cordoned off and he had no where to run.

reply to post by Covertblack


Thats bull crap they had plenty of time and you can't tell me they couldn't spare one guy, hell I would have done I wasn't busy. i just think the whole thing was an unavoidable tragedy that should have been averted, proving you can't buy security at any cost.

Originally posted by ivbnu
reply to post by Covertblack

 

Ok no tanks and you love babys. sorry. Its just that there is no excuse for this haveing happened. if the fbi can't stop a couple of amatures whom they where aware of then we seriously need our money back.

They really didn't get the whole story from the Russians. They probably did all they could legally at the time.

Originally posted by ivbnu
reply to post by Covertblack

 

Thats bull crap they had plenty of time and you can't tell me they couldn't spare one guy, hell I would have done I wasn't busy. i just think the whole thing was an unavoidable tragedy that should have been averted, proving you can't buy security at any cost.

Ok but think of all the suspects they have, and they don't know which ones are going to snap. Manpower wise that just isn't realistic to tail every person.