Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Holder outright declares illegal immigration a civil right.

page: 3
23
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join

posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 10:15 AM
link   
This guy blows.. Please let us get real people in gov next time.




posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 10:52 AM
link   
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


It is hard for me to believe anything that comes out of this moron's mouth. I am sure he could not put this thought together on his own, he far to stupid for that. This is from our non citizen president. Man what a jack of all asses Holder is



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 11:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by Ghost375
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


There's 10 million people here. We have to do something about them. There's pretty much two solutions to this problem. Provide a way for them(people who want to be here, who want to work here) to stay...or round up 10 million people.
Now tell me. Which is more civil and just? I'll give you a hint. You know who else rounded up millions of people?


Good point... Never quite seen it this way I guess. I had to work in Mexico for many years, and the people that are "sneaking" across the border are resilient SOBs, Heh paid disability leaves (or whatever they are called) does not exist in their reality. It's almost like, if you allow them to become citizens youll have a consistent 10 million people paying taxes on the work they are already doing without paying said taxes. But I'm getting sidetracked..
Indeed, if they are here already, and working, why not just tax them by adding paperwork to their name.
Certainly cheaper than rounding them up.
A colleague once told me he switched lawn companies because the mexican crew paid attention to detail and did such a better job than the "walmart punks" that used to do his lawn - Yes, I know, absolutely nothing to do with the bigger picture, simply something I think of when people say we [Americans] are lazy.

Someone wrote they would be furious because their sister-in-law has been waiting 8 years for the work visa trying to get it done right, and these sneaky illegals might just get a free pass because they've gone through hell and back and managed to stay unnoticed. Well, I'm in the same boat!-3 years waiting for my sister-in-law... And sometimes we humorously say that maybe she should just sneak in! The sad joke being that our country is degrading into a dog-eat-dog pit. Conspiracy theories behind every bush, money runs the place (ie no wallstreet sales taxes but pretty much on everything else there is) and deteriorating infrastructure is Never talked about in the political arena.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 11:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by YapTalk

Originally posted by HauntWok

Here in Florida the average paycheck from an illegal alien is $800 + a week during construction season, not to mention that a 'house cleaning lady' makes about $350-$400 per week when working for a company and MORE when working on her own.



I call BS. I lived in Fl. No way does the typical cleaning lady make that, especially an illegal one. In fact I knew a woman who paid her Mexican cleaning lady with her left over food, not cash..Also knew cleaning ladies who just scraped by making about $100 a week if they were lucky. Also knew a construction worker or two, legal ones, who did not come close to making $800 a week, so no way will an illegal make $800. And that was back in the boom times, you are full of it.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 01:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Ghost375
Secure the border, then allow them to stay indefinitely as long as they fill out the proper paperwork. That's all we're saying and you people fail to understand it.


I understand and it is wrong.

Why indefinitely? Why allow millions that broke our laws and sucked our social services to go to the head of the line over the millions that are doing it right and waiting 10 plus years after they did the proper documents. Those millions who are doing it right are not allowed to live in our country as they wait.

There are two parts to all this.

1. We need workers to do many jobs. We don't need them to bring their families here too and feed off our system that we cant even support all the Americans in need too with. We need temporary workers to come here and then go home when the work is done. We provide them a work visa, they work then go home, and when another company wants to sponsor them again they get another work visa. In the mean time IF they want to become an American they can get in line and wait their decade plus while still in the work vise program.

2. We DO have an immigration program....it there for ALL, not just Central and South Americans or whoever that illegally enters our country.

So once again, secure the borders, provide illegals a grace period to leave and register for a work visa, allow them to come back as part of a work visa program. Other than that they can get in line with the REST of the world for immigration. After the grace period when caught, they are deported and not allow a work visa in the future nor immigration, the company they were working for gets a heavy fine for not using documented workers with work visas.

They are not special just because they broke our laws and should not be given special rights that the MILLIONS of others who are actually following our laws don't get too.



edit on 28-4-2013 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 01:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheBlackHat

I call BS. I lived in Fl. No way does the typical cleaning lady make that, especially an illegal one. In fact I knew a woman who paid her Mexican cleaning lady with her left over food, not cash..Also knew cleaning ladies who just scraped by making about $100 a week if they were lucky. Also knew a construction worker or two, legal ones, who did not come close to making $800 a week, so no way will an illegal make $800. And that was back in the boom times, you are full of it.


This is also the dark side to all of this and it is called human trafficking. Undocumented workers are basically slaves that are cruelly exploited because they are here illegally. This is a big reason why we need a work visa program to not only clean up our mess of illegals and employers that use them but to protect workers too.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 01:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by HauntWok

Not at all. All I am saying is that in order for your idea to be true, US Citizens are going to have to be willing to pay more for things like vegetables, lawn care, housekeeping, etc, and I doubt they are willing to do that.



Why would they....

These illegals pay a Coyote upwards of 2k to get them into America. Then they need to find a job....We have 10 million plus working, sitting, sucking on our social programs etc

We secure the borders and put heavy fines on any employer that uses undocumented workers. You are a farmer and you need 100 workers for 3 months. You process for free a request for 100 workers and you get 100 workers with a work visa. Clean simple and the same thing...

You have a lawn service and you want year round cheap labor.... you pick your workers you want and every 6 months they must reapply for a work visa that cost them much less than the 2k they are paying now AND they have work and do not risk total lost of investment. The workers are here and they family and extended families are back home, NOT HERE to suckle our system.

You want a house keeper.....you apply for one and get one.....rinse and repeat for EVERY job that we would have these people do.

My point is those who have already broken our laws do not deserve special treatment. We can deport or we can enforce heavy fines on employers that use them. This would force them down two paths...to stay here not working and do nothing or go home and apply for a work visa. These people are not refugees they do have homes in their own country and many times their homes are upscale do to the fact they make their money here.


On a side note..all the monies taken in for work visas could go back into the program, making it basically cost free AND would augment border security too. A win win really sucks for many though...
edit on 28-4-2013 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 04:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by HauntWok

Here in Florida the average paycheck from an illegal alien is $800 + a week during construction season, not to mention that a 'house cleaning lady' makes about $350-$400 per week when working for a company and MORE when working on her own.

I call BS. I lived in Fl. No way does the typical cleaning lady make that, especially an illegal one. In fact I knew a woman who paid her Mexican cleaning lady with her left over food, not cash..Also knew cleaning ladies who just scraped by making about $100 a week if they were lucky. Also knew a construction worker or two, legal ones, who did not come close to making $800 a week, so no way will an illegal make $800. And that was back in the boom times, you are full of it.


Maybe your cleaning lady is not cleaning as many houses as my cleaning lady does


I do taxes during tax season for these families & YES they do make a ton. BECAUSE they are very hard workers & work all kinds of hours.

Plus, for those of you saying that illegals do not pay taxes (1040, 1040ez etc) I am here to tell you that they sure do.

They don't even need a social security number to do so, all they need is a ITIN


ITIN

An ITIN, or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, is a tax processing number only available for certain nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents who cannot get a Social Security Number (SSN). It is a 9-digit number, beginning with the number "9", formatted like an SSN (NNN-NN-NNNN).


IRS Source For You Non Believers

All that crap about illegals not paying taxes is just mis-information.
edit on 28-4-2013 by YapTalk because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 04:21 PM
link   
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Illegal Immigration would stop tomorrow if the employers that hire immigrants were fined to the maximum extent of the law. A company that does not complete, or does not correctly complete, an I-9 Form on behalf of each employee within the first three days of employment faces possible penalties of $110 to $1,100 for each violation. In addition, an employer who signs an I-9 form containing false statements may be charged with perjury. If employers were prosecuted without leniency it would stop tomorrow. Then, after the employer has been fined and/or charged w/ and convicted of perjury, their corp. charter was revoked and/or their license to do business is revoked.

This is why I'm sick to death of all these bullsh*t artists talking about how serious of a problem it is. No it isn't. There is money to be made in not stopping it. So stfu about illegals and immigration problems you hypocrites. You have the tools you need., you are either too stupid to use them, or more likely, corrupt and profiting off of the status quo.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 06:51 PM
link   
reply to post by YapTalk
 


Where I live illegals gather to work construction and the pay for any of them is 10$ per hour. That's cash BTW. And without taxes being withheld it's like what a worker makes who's being paid $15 per hour. I've hired a few of them when remodeling my house.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 08:08 PM
link   
When you take at look at how this Administration rolls don't wince if you should hear the word "tyranny" mentioned. One man's flexibility is another man's tyranny.

Tyranny is a very real threat to Liberty and we are now staring it right in the eye!

www.freerepublic.com...


When the American-hating Marxist president and his thuggish Attorney General states that citizenship is a civil right and must be rewarded to illegal alien border jumpers, that is tyranny!


If this remark bothers you, read the whole piece and understand just how much anger your opposition feels. If you agree, then you will appreciate this well written piece.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 08:32 PM
link   
reply to post by YapTalk
 



All that crap about illegals not paying taxes is just mis-information.


I'll sure take your word for what your personal experience is when it comes to the taxes due for those who have worked for you (hiring illegals? Hmm... Another topic entirely perhaps) but I'm also fairly certain you can't well speak to the tax practices of over 11 million others. The Tax fraud and avoidance isn't theory. To at least some extent where it can be quantified, it sure exists to count. Although that's mighty challenging since about the only time it's 100% is when the Social Sec's or Tax ID's overlap with someone else either using the same one or who lives/has lived with that number before.

Mis-information flows like a river in both directions on this issue and that's the very heart of the problem. Even estimates of 11 million is pure seat of the pants guess work, since it's impossible to get a count on what cannot be counted and/or will not cooperate to BE counted. They can't even get a homeless count of LEGAL citizens without resorting to statistical sampling ..and that's about as accurate as the models being used to generate it.



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 06:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by YapTalk
 



All that crap about illegals not paying taxes is just mis-information.


I'll sure take your word for what your personal experience is when it comes to the taxes due for those who have worked for you (hiring illegals? Hmm... Another topic entirely perhaps) but I'm also fairly certain you can't well speak to the tax practices of over 11 million others. The Tax fraud and avoidance isn't theory. To at least some extent where it can be quantified, it sure exists to count. Although that's mighty challenging since about the only time it's 100% is when the Social Sec's or Tax ID's overlap with someone else either using the same one or who lives/has lived with that number before.

Mis-information flows like a river in both directions on this issue and that's the very heart of the problem. Even estimates of 11 million is pure seat of the pants guess work, since it's impossible to get a count on what cannot be counted and/or will not cooperate to BE counted. They can't even get a homeless count of LEGAL citizens without resorting to statistical sampling ..and that's about as accurate as the models being used to generate it.



Wrabbit, never did I say on any of my OP or replies that illegal aliens work for me. I said that I do taxes during tax season and I get a steady stream of people with ITINs.

These are people that have gotten 'legally' their ITINs as the government gives them out like candy.

Also, did you know that with an ITIN these people were able to get mortgages?

All they need to get an ITIN is show their 'matricula consular' (Mexican paperwork) and the IRS gives them a new number and off they go.

It is a very screwed up system.

Doing taxes as a business from home vs hiring illegals personally are two very completely different things my friend.
edit on 29-4-2013 by YapTalk because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 08:22 AM
link   
Emigration is a human right, I believe that 100%. That doesn't mean I think borders shouldn't exist or that there shouldn't be a process. Our process sucks, the way we handle immigration is just simply ridiculous. It shouldn't take years and tens of thousands of dollars to gain citizenship, it also shouldn't be an automatic granting of financial assistance, only in cases of asylum/refugee status.

Activists, politicians and people in other countries have stated for decades how US Policy affects them, we intentionally destabilize, we intentionally or not, empower cartels, warlords and every other manner exploitation. They've asked us to consider how our globalization affects the world and we don't listen, in my mind that makes our government far more criminal than anyone breaking our laws to eke out a better life here. I think until we pull our nose out of every corner of the world and mind our own, it is hypocritical to judge and damn others for trying to escape to the only place safe from it, well, relatively anyway.

I can't say I'm a fan of Holder's or the DOJ but his stance on immigration, I don't find worth bashing him over.
edit on 29-4-2013 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 08:47 AM
link   
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


He really needs to not only be prosecuted for the Gun running, he needs to be tarred and feathered.

He is just a Progressive Jackass doing what Progressives do.



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 09:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by YapTalk


Maybe your cleaning lady is not cleaning as many houses as my cleaning lady does


I do taxes during tax season for these families & YES they do make a ton. BECAUSE they are very hard workers & work all kinds of hours.

Plus, for those of you saying that illegals do not pay taxes (1040, 1040ez etc) I am here to tell you that they sure do.

They don't even need a social security number to do so, all they need is a ITIN


ITIN

An ITIN, or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, is a tax processing number only available for certain nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents who cannot get a Social Security Number (SSN). It is a 9-digit number, beginning with the number "9", formatted like an SSN (NNN-NN-NNNN).


IRS Source For You Non Believers

All that crap about illegals not paying taxes is just mis-information.
edit on 28-4-2013 by YapTalk because: (no reason given)


Oh sounds like your admitting to hiring an illegal cleaning lady..ooohh..but arnt you the same person complaining about illegals??? Something smells not right.


Well lets put it like this...back in the boom times, average people hired house cleaners in Florida...i cant imagine many folks hiring cleaners these days, except maybe the wealthy. The story I told about the cleaner getting paid in left over food was true and it was a woman who was loaded who was treating her like garbage and as i said that was in the good old days when there was money about...if illegal cleaners made what you think they make then why would at least one of them work for left over food? When she could be making bank elsewhere????? and that was in the boom times....so i doubt illegal cleaners are getting top dollar now..they were never getting it before.
I also knew legal cleaners who worked for companies, and they scraped by, making nothing like your stating an illegal supposedly makes. The going rate was about 7-8 dollars an hour for a legal cleaner so you can knock that figure in half for an illegal. Then work out how many hours does it take to clean a house properly? Then you have to travel from one house to the next one, which might be miles away. Then you have to be lucky enough to have enough clients that are willing to pay you in actual cash.
If you know illegal cleaners who are making bank, then they are a rarity, and even more rare these days.
As you know full well, the idea of hiring illegals to work for you, is because you can exploit the hell out of them, by paying them miles less that you would have to pay a legal worker...OBVIOUSLY...so I really think your telling porky's.

As for you "claim" that you do taxes for illegal workers..I have no idea if this is true or not..but I cannot figure out why an undocumented worker would be dumb enough to pay taxes? Because there is absolutely no incentive for them to do that. If they pay taxes they are not entitled to benefit from paying those taxes and voluntarily putting their names and addresses into the system would only flag them up as being illegal to the authorities...so i am highly dubious of your claims.
edit on 29-4-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)
edit on 29-4-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 09:46 AM
link   
If you think about it... deep down the line ALL Americans are immigrants.
Unless of course you are a NATIVE American.



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 11:21 AM
link   
reply to post by YapTalk
 

Okay Yap.... I did misunderstand your message in being Illegals you worked with vs. worked for you. My bad on that. I looked back over that and it still seems to read that way to me? However, obviously. I missed something there and I'll take the reader's blame on that misunderstanding.

The fraud part though isn't theoretical and as someone in the tax field, you ought to know that. Just as a % of 100% legal, born and bred Americans either don't file at all or file creatively to the point of outright criminal action, it's a compounded problem when a fair number of the overall criminal immigrant community are paranoid about even showing up at something related to the Federal Government.

I really can't blame them, either. Mexico, for instance, is 2+ years in a Federal Prison for being caught as an illegal alien coming across their Southern Border....and that's after the authorities 'relieve them' of their personal belongings and any money they might have had in outright victimization. The stories off the Southern Mexican border make our immigration enforcement sound like Willie Wonka giving a friendly tour.



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 11:27 AM
link   
reply to post by Kali74
 


I think this transcends and goes well beyond the philosophical arguments about the morality of immigration laws. I'll also grant you that it's a fuzzy situation for this namely because the Government has at least passively encouraged the problem to grow through a number of mechanisms over the years. In recent years under BOTH Bush and Obama, it's been outright recruiting illegals in Mexico at least (God knows about other nations, but the billboards for Mexicans along the border are clear enough) to come on up and have a piece of the good life ...benefits and all.

A major headline story this past week was the fact that Food Stamps now pride themselves on how they don't ask or require proof of legal status in this nation to collect on benefits from the program. That has all formed to make the U.S.G. as much a contributor to this whole sordid mess as anyone trying to stop it all these years.

The problem with Holder is that he IS NOT an advocate for the downtrodden or the poor and unfortunate. There ARE others in this vast Government who do that as their jobs or part of their responsibilities. Eric Holder is the top LAW ENFORCEMENT Officer in the United States of America. That defines his position and makes his statements to encourage law breaking based on HIS personal feelings a line which I believe puts HIM into criminal action, himself.

Just my thoughts for how the specific man and that specific post in Government make ALL the difference for the meaning and context of what he said there and he's been saying. He needs to resign and get appointed to another post if enforcing the laws equally and without bias or prejudice is too much for him to handle. His Boss and Congress are those who need worry about how to change them, IMO.

edit on 29-4-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 08:12 PM
link   
Guys, my reply about 'cleaning ladies' was clearly sarcasm to the OP above mine.

Anyway, back to work...






top topics



 
23
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join