Holder outright declares illegal immigration a civil right.

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posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 03:54 PM
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Well to me it all depends. If one is speaking of a group that is opposed to the values and liberty of your nation, ie. a danger in large numbers to your freedom, for example, those from theocracies come to mind. One would need to be very vigilant.

However, if one is referring to the working poor, in neighboring lands, that traditionally were their territory, and bear in mind that Natives have the legal right to dual citizenship and often travel freely between Canada and Mexico, for it is considered their traditional right. So, in this case, I kind of agree with him.

If one doesnt like being inundated, then I would suggest that our governments could work with those countries to improve the freedom and equality there and living conditions, so they wouldn't need to leave. As opposed to the way our governments currently prop up the corrupt slave conditions in those countries at profit to our countries corporations.
edit on 27-4-2013 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by andy1972

Originally posted by YapTalk
Granted, they do hard jobs that we as Americans with our entitlement mentality would not touch with a 100 foot pole but they do get paid very well in most circumstances.


One minute your a Spaniard, crying about the fact that these guys might have had the balls to work for ten or more years in the states and have EARNED their citizenship and you can't or don't want to understand why.

Now your are full on, flag wavin' yankee doodle dandy do or die uncle sam apple pie i'll buy that for a dollar wet back hatin' patriot good 'ole boy who accepts that the immigrants do the # that a normal worker "wouldn't touch with a 100 foot pole".

Are you an American??

Are you an immigrant??

Were your family immigrants??

Or now, because your a legal immigrant, do you feel superior and threatend by the fact that a man will work for half the pay with dignity to feed his family doing a job you consider would leave you without dignity.




Where in the world in any of my writing did you get the above crap? I think your understanding skills need a little work my friend.


I never said I was 'Spaniard' I said I was Spanish. Let me try this again: Latino, Hispanic, Spanish, Boricua... take a pick as they all apply to me.


These people have not EARNED their citizenship according to the law. It is that simple, there is a process that needs to be followed and I have helped quite a few families navigate that process... for free to boot!

You know why? Because they are HARD working people that deserve the opportunity to give their families something better.

Flag waving, wet back hating what???

You are def going off the deep end as NOTHING I wrote had anything bad to say about illegal aliens, here is my original OP as a reference:


He said

creating a pathway to EARNED citizenship for the 11,000,000 UNAUTHORIZED immigrants



WTF!

As a Spanish person living in the US since birth, I find this quote completely disgusting!

He said "earned" citizenship and I ask, how was it "earned"?

Then he said "unauthorized" immigrants when it should have been "illegal" immigrants.

So following the same thinking, a felon who is caught with a firearm can claim that he has

EARNED gun rights as he is merely an "UNAUTHORIZED" firearm user. Since nothing illegal was done, he is in the clear?

I wonder since the feds choose which laws to go after and which laws are not to be enforced if a 'motion to dismiss' claiming that I choose WHICH laws to follow just like the feds would work in court.

This would open a TON of new possibilities for we the people!


See how my original OP is talking about THE GOVERNMENT CHOOSING WHICH LAWS TO FOLLOW! About them CHANGING DEFINITIONS ON THE FLY!

Funny how you used the word 'wetback'.

Quick question, is every gringo a closet racist?

I bet NOT!

Just found peculiar your choice of words...
edit on 27-4-2013 by YapTalk because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 04:02 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 04:03 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Personally, I have nothing against legal immigration and even for the illegals from Mexico (my community is loaded) I have come to understand that all these people want is a chance at a better life. My gawd, their country is run and overrun by drug cartels and corruption!

But now... we just can't toss the doors open, especially in a time when we can't even create jobs for our own people. There has to be some common sense applied and that is the single most nonexistent commodity coming from this administration on this particular subject.

Seems rather obvious that the only reason the current administration favors flooding the nation with these illegals is... not for their benefit, but for that of his political party. Basically, to dilute the electorate and guarantee years of victories based on those who came here illegally but were allowed to stay to show gratitude to those who ignored their own laws they were sworn to uphold.

It wouldn't be the first time this happened. Just check the history of New York City about turn of the century.

I agree that immigration laws could use some updating but... until we learn how to enforce those already in the booksm, a rewrite seems entirely wrong.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


What a jackass. I can't wait till these bastards are out of office.

"We only follow Federal laws that we happen to agree with.". #ObamaAdministration



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 05:58 PM
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Your title is a misrepresentation. You're manipulating his words, and the intent of them, to get flags and stars.
edit on 27-4-2013 by Ghost375 because: typo



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


What a jackass. I can't wait till these bastards are out of office.

"We only follow Federal laws that we happen to agree with.". #ObamaAdministration





'I don't have to follow that, unless I choose to.'''

-George Bush

source



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 06:03 PM
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What's so wrong with allowing people who risked their livelihoods and much more to come to this country?
Why do you want to kick people out who will sacrifice everything because they want to live here so badly?
If someone wants to live here, who are you to tell them they can't?

Most americans are lazy. The illegal immigrants are hard workers. I want more hard workers in this country!

edit on 27-4-2013 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by HauntWok
Here's the solution...

Americans need to go out and get the jobs that Illegals take, picking fruit vegetables, cleaning, landscaping, all for far below minimum wage.

Oh what? You can't do that?

Oh ok, fine, pay US citizens minimum wage for this.

What? You don't like your lawncare charging you over a grand a month to mow your front yard? You don't like strawberries costing 10 bucks a pound? Imagine that.


Very poor reason to justify illegals.

How about this...

1. Secure the borders
2. Have stiff fines for any company caught with undocumented workers.
3. (very important) Create a work visa program that pays for its self and pays for border security.
4. Provide limited time work visa to anyone that qualifies.
5. People work and then go back to their country after the visa has expired and if caught in over stay they don't get another visa.

Is having a country full of DOCUMENTED workers something you are against?



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Ghost375
What's so wrong with allowing people who risked their livelihoods and much more to come to this country?
Why do you want to kick people out who will sacrifice everything because they want to live here so badly?
If someone wants to live here, who are you to tell them they can't?

Most americans are lazy. The illegal immigrants are hard workers. I want more hard workers in this country!


What other country allows anyone just to walk in and live?

Have you waited in an Emergency room 8 hours because it is where illegals go for care? Do you have kids in schools that have a 40 to 50 student to teacher ratio because of the children of illegals are there too. What livelihood are they risking and sacrifice what?

Do you also like the undocumented gang members that come too, the undocumented drug cartels, the undocumented criminals also?

Why is a work visa program such an alien thought to all of you? You know, it would be good for the workers too, they would not be underpaid or mistreated if they were above the board documented.

Oh, BTW why do Mexicans get a special pass when the world is FULL of hard workers that would LOVE to work here doing our crappy jobs as part of a work visa program.

I have a sister in-law that has been waiting 8 years for us to sponsor her and I would be kind of pissed if all you need to do is sneak in and become a citizen.

Tell me once again, what other country would you not go to jail for breaking a law by sneaking in?



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by Ghost375
Your title is a misrepresentation. You're manipulating his words, and the intent of them, to get flags and stars.
edit on 27-4-2013 by Ghost375 because: typo

Are you suggesting the Attorney General did NOT term criminal immigrants getting a path to legal status and citizenship a civil and human right? I mean, what more does one need to do? Send tickets to personally attend the speech? Holder not only is quoted by text but his own words are there in video to hear and hear in context of the larger statement.

What part of that statement was difficult to grasp? The man called it a civil right. Outright. No bones or misconceptions about it. It's not the first time this particular man has said something very much like that, either. It's simply the first time he's been THIS blatant and open about saying he doesn't need to enforce laws he doesn't like ...and somehow has any business suggesting the laws passed and set by the U.S. Congress are, to HIS thinking, unconstitutional.

Again, Eric Holder doesn't get to define Constitutional and Unconstitutional. That is up to the 9 robed ones in another D.C. building. It's not the Department of Justice. Holder's job and position is flat out to enforce the laws duly passed by the people's representatives in Congress. Nothing more, nothing less ...and he sucks at his job.

Now we have some idea as to why, I'd say. His mixed loyalties to the duties are plain for all to hear with their own ears.
edit on 27-4-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
Very poor reason to justify illegals.

How about this...

1. Secure the borders
2. Have stiff fines for any company caught with undocumented workers.
3. (very important) Create a work visa program that pays for its self and pays for border security.
4. Provide limited time work visa to anyone that qualifies.
5. People work and then go back to their country after the visa has expired and if caught in over stay they don't get another visa.

Is having a country full of DOCUMENTED workers something you are against?


You're just putting words in his mouth because you are unable to comprehend what he is saying.

Just because someone wants to allow them to stay doesn't mean they are opposed to securing the border and having them documented.
Getting them documented is the WHOLE point of our side of the fence.

Point 5 is the only point we differ. Setting up a system where they will eventually get forced out of the country will fail. No one will sign up and they will stay in the shadows.

Secure the border, then allow them to stay indefinitely as long as they fill out the proper paperwork. That's all we're saying and you people fail to understand it.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 
We can only hope there is a hell for the people in this administration to rot in.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


He's not talking about the act of illegal immigration itself. He's talking about once they are already here. And in your reply you reworded it to capture this. Your title is NOT worded that way. You worded it in such a way as to draw attention, and in doing so you DID manipulate his intent. He's not saying we should keep our borders wide open, and allow people to come in willy nilly, and that is what your title is heavily implying.


There's 10 million people here. We have to do something about them. There's pretty much two solutions to this problem. Provide a way for them(people who want to be here, who want to work here) to stay...or round up 10 million people.
Now tell me. Which is more civil and just? I'll give you a hint. You know who else rounded up millions of people?



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by Ghost375
 

Well Ghost, your personal opinion of what he intended to say has been noted for the value I believe it carries and as always, any contribution to the discussion is appreciated. I doubt we'll ever agree on much of anything, whatsoever. This is no exception. It's always interesting to see how many creative ways someone can perform the role of apologist and politically spin what our own eyes see and our own ears hear. Indeed... Never a dull moment in that respect.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 09:59 PM
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What you are going to be hearing sooner or later, I suspect--and sooner, because I'm going to say it here now, is that there is a entirely new way that governments are looking at people. They are not seen as individual citizens of this country or that, needing documentation to be legal. But they are seen in the eyes of any government, especially the government under which they find themselves as "Earth citizens." In that regard, they will be entitled to any privileges that country can provide.

That is a side-stepping way of proclaiming borderless countries much as the EU promotes today.

Why would that be because it clearly is a detriment to the natural citizens of that particular (host) country? The answer, I suspect, and I'm quite serious about this, is some cosmic rule laid down by the UFO ETs. Basically, we can interpret that rule as the Earth as a whole has the responsibility to take care of its own.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 10:22 PM
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You know the United States' conception began with the premise of freedom of religious persecution. That leaves a big loop-hole for bypassing the law in general. I'm sure you can find your own representations of that. The main emigrates from Europe were people in "debt". Definitely indigent since they weren't owning buildings or businesses(I do mean the ones in general, of course there was exceptions, but not many). People that were in the way of these businesses would be eventually dealt with. All through the idea that literate men had the given right to others' land(White Angle Saxon Protestants). Lol, I believe it was the cherokees(not sure, but a tribe from Georgia) conformed to the 'rules' to engage in, I guess they'd call it arbitration, and basically fight for their land. Well, they lost of course, and were sent even further west. Eventually, we get the USA, built on rebellion/terrorism. You pick the adjectives.

The only current countries on this planet, that the main-stream media acknowledges doing the same thing at this moment in time. is Israel.

If we got down to basically the atomic level of this problem, it'd be the banks manipulating everything, and breaking every law without legal ramifications.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 



Is having a country full of DOCUMENTED workers something you are against?


Not at all. All I am saying is that in order for your idea to be true, US Citizens are going to have to be willing to pay more for things like vegetables, lawn care, housekeeping, etc, and I doubt they are willing to do that.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 05:09 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 





What other country allows anyone just to walk in and live?


Pretty much every European Union country.

Schengen Agreement

If say you live in Italy, but decided you would much rather spend the next 6 months living and working part time in Paris, get a train to Paris, find a job in a cafe somewhere, job done. After that if you like, travel to Munich, Berlin, Vienna, Salzburg, hell take a grand tour of all the Imperial Capitals of Europe, spend ten years experiencing all these cultures if you like.

Personay I think that is AWESOME. And the best thing is, no government official is trying to hassle me with some bull about papers and a right to work. You can come and go as you please.

Even as a UK citizen if I want to go to America on holiday, not live there, just on a holiday If to get interrogated by some idiot about my reasons for going there and if I am fit for a Visa, what the hell?, nah I dont think so. And even then, I have a criminal record so I'd get rejected lol. What a joke.





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