Evidence of religious foundations

The foundations of most religions are based on certain events written in biblical texts. Evidence of these events should be readily available, yet the biblical accounts deliberately and mysteriously ensure that this evidence will never be found (exactly like in a work of fiction). What are some of these events?

1. Where is the ark of the covenant?
Answer: Don't know.

2. Where is the burial site of all of the firstborn of Egypt that god killed?
Answer: Don't know. They were probably buried somewhere in the desert.

3. Where is the burial site of all the jews that died as slaves in Egypt?
Answer: Don't know. They were probably buried somewhere in the desert.

4. Where are the stone tablets the ten commandments were written on?
Answer: In the ark of the covenant.

5. Where is the ark of the covenant again?
Answer: Don't know.

6. Where is the body of Jesus?
Answer: Floated up and away into heaven.

7. Mohammed flew to heaven on a winged creature, then flew back to earth. Where are the bones of this winged creature?
Answer: Don't know. Probably flew back to heaven.

8. Many miracle healings have been attributed to the gods, except for the re-growing of amputated limbs. Will all those that had just such a miracle happen to them, please raise your new right hand.
Counting of new right hands: 0

9. Where is Noah's ark?
Answer: Don't know.

10. Where was the virgin Mary buried when she died?
Answer: Her body was also taken up into heaven.

It's hard to believe in the stories written down as religious texts, but when EVERY single piece of evidence has an absurd excuse for not being available, that makes the religious texts an insult to mankind's intelligence.

You make some very good points and I also believe some of the stories in the Bible aren't exactly literal but more of a lesson to be learned kinda thing, but with that being said if you were an all seeing all knowing creator that only wanted faith would you leave evidence laying around. I believe in something larger than us or our existence in this universe now whether that is a deity, multiple deities, aliens, or something else entirely I don't know. All I know is when I'm alone and talking to who or what ever can listen I feel like I am being heard and that is enough for my faith. If I die and am wrong all that will come from it is that I felt good being wrong. I don't believe in any religion that tells people that they have to believe one certain thing because if your told what to believe that's not faith. Just my two cents but you do make very good points.

Interesting logic. If something is not found, it never existed, this should make history class easy

Amelia Arheart, never existed. Columbus never sailed to America (no Nina, pinta, nor Santa Maria) the whole pilgrim story: fake, where is the mayflower? All the tools to build the pyramids? Bones of the missing Mayans? Bin ladens body??

reply to post by jiggerj

The foundations of most religions are based on certain events written in biblical texts.

Here are (as I see it) the foundations of the religions:

1) There was a people calling themselves, Israel, with specific named tribes that make up the nation, who found themselves existing, and being dealt with as a political entity by the Persian Empire once they sort of inherited the territory from the previous empire.
They needed a story to ensure the persistence of a form of cohesiveness between those groups in order to maintain the status of a state.

2) There were what was called Christians that existed scattered throughout the Roman empire who were being dealt with politically as a people.

3) There was a conquered empire created by military action by Arabs, who found themselves rulers over the holy sites of the Middle East, needing some explanation for how that could have happened.

Originally posted by kingofmd
Interesting logic. If something is not found, it never existed, this should make history class easy

Somehow I don't think I'm getting off that easy on my finals in a couple weeks. I wish it were that simple. lol...

The Ark of the Covenant was recorded as an object of power beyond simply the pages of the Bible. The Germans were rumored to be fanatic about finding it long before someone thought to make a movie with that plot, too. Who knows..maybe they found it. It didn't do their regime any good, if they did.

Factually speaking and out of theology, I've heard it rumored to be partially made from or containing highly radioactive meteor fragments. Much like the Stone in Mecca is believed to be by many..sans radiation on that one. It would go to explain the 'Death to those who look upon it's contents' while throwing that whole idea in a whole new light, eh?

The foundations of most religions are based on certain events written in biblical texts

Unfortunately, I couldn't get past this sentence. I don't agree with this statement as most religions are not based on biblical texts. Not in my view, anyway.

Before the Bible.... there is history of religions before the Era of Christianity/Bible.

3600 BCE or before can be analyzed and one can find religious monuments being built.

I believe the foundations of all religions are based on the heavens/stars.... humans always looking up for something greater than them self.

reply to post by jiggerj

It's hard to believe in the stories written down as religious texts, but when EVERY single piece of evidence has an absurd excuse for not being available, that makes the religious texts an insult to mankind's intelligence.

Or, at the very least, the products of very active imaginations. People trying to figure out how the world worked. Now we know better.
Good thread! S/F

reply to post by RagnarDanniskjold

but with that being said if you were an all seeing all knowing creator that only wanted faith would you leave evidence laying around.

A god that wants to be worshiped and loved, yet leaves no evidence of his existence. This is another insane religious premise. I wonder if Bill Gates hears me when I try to enter his mind and whisper for him to send me 10 million dollars? He probably doesn't because he's never entered my mind to say No. Or maybe I should have faith in that he did try, even though I have no evidence for it.

Originally posted by kingofmd
Interesting logic. If something is not found, it never existed, this should make history class easy

Amelia Arheart, never existed. Columbus never sailed to America (no Nina, pinta, nor Santa Maria) the whole pilgrim story: fake, where is the mayflower? All the tools to build the pyramids? Bones of the missing Mayans? Bin ladens body??

edit on 27-4-2013 by kingofmd because: Autocorrect is too presumptuous

Humans make memorials for almost every important event. I hear that people could get lost forever in the Smithsonian archives. This is what mankind has always done. The pyramids contain bones and artifacts of pharaohs,and yet what would be THEE MOST important events in history, and there's nothing? No bodies of Jesus or Mary, no tablets, no proof of miracles, no Noah's ark, no memorial to all the dead firstborn of Egypt, no trail of dead bodies or litter as the jews wondered the desert for forty years, no exact location of where Moses received the ten commandments - NOTHING!

that makes the religious texts an insult to mankind's intelligence.

You speak like a man beating a tree with a stick while searching for the forest he is lost in. Mankind's intelligence has hidden the things you seek.

reply to post by jiggerj


1. Where is the body of Plato?
Answer: Don't know. Probably buried in Greece somewhere.

2. What happened to the city of Cibola?
Answer: Don't know. Appears to have vanished.

3. Where is the tomb of Antony and Cleopatra?
Answer: Don't know. Probably in Egypt somewhere.

4. Where's the Colossus of Rhodes?
Answer: Don't know. Apparently destroyed.

5. What happened to the Roman relics at Lake Nemi?
Answer: "Conveniently" destroyed in World War II.

You won't see any of this on the history Channel

www.wyattmuseum.com...

Christianity is not founded on relics. It is founded on the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. There is nothing special about the tablets of the 10 commandments, the important thing is the commandments themselves. We are to look at those to know what God's perfect and holy standard is, in turn we are to look at ourselves and realize that we have broken them and are destined for our earned punishment. Jesus, whom is God in the flesh, obeyed the law to the t, suffered and died in our place. We can either choose to accept that our fine was paid on His behalf, and live accordingly, or reject it and represent ourselves before God in the end (which is pointless because we have all sinned, and God's standard is perfection)

reply to post by jiggerj

A rock and a meteorite can be saved throughout time, but no bones of Mary? Please...

IF (big IF) we assume or have evidence of Mary or Jesus or any other Biblical character (some say we do) then WHY do you think it is kept secret?

What could their DNA provide? What/Who could be held in secret?

Three issues come to mind... 1.) bloodline, 2.) human 3.) Fear of theft

IF (big IF) nothing has really been found or kept secret then ??

In regards to religious foundations my mind veers toward the root. If we believe humanity is hundreds of thousand years old then we must assume humans (especially when our brains evolved and got bigger) had ideas and were inquisitive about the stars, heavens, death, and birth and thought about and then spoke about and eventually wrote these ideas down. Some of the writings and worship may indeed be based on real people and animals. If we believe our history of pictographs we should then believe half animal and humans were real as well.

Its my understanding Goddesses were worshiped before men or at least relics/monuments have been found to suggest such.

When organized religion began so did taxes and banking systems. Go figure!

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by jiggerj

 

1. Where is the body of Plato?
Answer: Don't know. Probably buried in Greece somewhere.

2. What happened to the city of Cibola?
Answer: Don't know. Appears to have vanished.

3. Where is the tomb of Antony and Cleopatra?
Answer: Don't know. Probably in Egypt somewhere.

4. Where's the Colossus of Rhodes?
Answer: Don't know. Apparently destroyed.

5. What happened to the Roman relics at Lake Nemi?
Answer: "Conveniently" destroyed in World War II.

These things aren't connected with a great and powerful god. These things aren't involved in matters of whether one goes to heaven or hell. I'm actually surprised that it isn't written in the bible that all religious artifacts should be saved for all time.

Originally posted by jiggerj
These things aren't connected with a great and powerful god.

No, but they're evidence that crap goes missing all the time, and that fact doesn't mean that Plato never existed.

I'm actually surprised that it isn't written in the bible that all religious artifacts should be saved for all time.

Why would it be? Why would God care if the Ark of the Covenant still existed, or if we could identify the true cross?

Look up the word "faith" sometime, Jigger. It isn't reliant on physical evidence.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by jiggerj
These things aren't connected with a great and powerful god.

No, but they're evidence that crap goes missing all the time, and that fact doesn't mean that Plato never existed.

I'm actually surprised that it isn't written in the bible that all religious artifacts should be saved for all time.

Why would it be? Why would God care if the Ark of the Covenant still existed, or if we could identify the true cross?

Look up the word "faith" sometime, Jigger. It isn't reliant on physical evidence.

Wouldn't a god know that when it comes to humans, crap goes missing all the time. So, he doesn't care if his words get distorted through time. He doesn't care that evidence of his visits to earth gets lost?

There is faith that the sun will rise everyday. There is faith that we will die some day. But when it comes to faith with NO evidence whatsoever, perhaps you should look up the words 'gullible' and 'sucker'.

Originally posted by jiggerj
So, he doesn't care if his words get distorted through time. He doesn't care that evidence of his visits to earth gets lost?

Why would he? What does God care if Nebuchadnezzar carts off the Ark of the Covenant and melts it down?

But when it comes to faith with NO evidence whatsoever, perhaps you should look up the words 'gullible' and 'sucker'.

Most of us with faith have seen evidence, but it is personal and is of no purpose to anyone other than that person. Whether you have never seen evidence, or you've simply never recognized it for what it is, is a matter for another discussion.

reply to post by adjensen


Hi Adj.,

It one thing to have faith. because of spiritual or mystical experience. It's quite another to attach that experience to the "God" of the Bible.

I have had experiences that make me believe in a higher "reality". But my common sense refuses to accept that it came from that deity that is claimed to be the "God" of the Old Testament.

reply to post by kingofmd

We can either choose to accept that our fine was paid on His behalf . . .

That is one of several salvation theories, and not a Bible quote.
Jesus died in our place, as you said, which means he took the position or situation of a sinner, when he was crucified.
God has the ability to forgive sins without paying some other shadowy entity off as if it is owed.

Jesus, whom is God in the flesh . . .

That is an interpretation of a couple of scriptures that can more sensibly interpreted to mean something else, one being John 1:14, the other is 1 Tim.3:16.
My interpretation of the Logos in John 1 is that John is using that word to explain the concept of the spirit of prophecy.
The verse in 1 Tim, is placed in a false context, including part of the previous verse as if it is part of the same sentence, and pretending that the mention of God there means that the "appeared in the flesh" is talking about Him, rather than what the subject should obviously be, which is Jesus.

reply to post by adjensen


In the same vein, why would he care whether someone believed in him or not? Seems pretty childish for something with unlimited power to send someone to hell over something so small and insignificant as belief.