Boston Martial Law from a Police Perspective - Do You Find This Disturbing?

reply to post by Anjola
I bet a lot of those cops pointing their rifles at civilians have never served in a war/combat zone. This was their 'might finally see action' hay day, and unfortunately a lot of other rookie officers out there are probably itching to point one at you. Very sad to witness from this combat vet's perspective.

Ultimately, their tactics proved completely ineffective. One cop with a bloodhound, a bomb suit and an ounce of courage could have and should have ended this the right way very quickly. Instead the suspect - unarmed and motionless - was assaulted in a hail of gunfire in what can only be described as attempted murder.

Wow - I thought there would be at lease a few people strongly sticking up for law enforcement. It's nice to see that I'm not remotely alone in my concerns! Although I would be curious to see what points an opposing opinion might bring up...

I wasn't aware of the IQ limits for new recruits - that's really embarrassing!! (And not just for the officers, but it reflects badly on society as a whole.)

I have friends that are good friends with most of our local police officers and sheriff's deputies (in fact, my brother-in-law is a deputy.) From occasionally socializing with them, they don't seem like horrible people - but very brainwashed by the system they serve. There's no questioning the status quo, there's no questioning their opinion, they complain there are too many laws that protect criminals, they goof off a LOT while on duty (I've heard lots of stories...), everything is a black and white issue, etc...

Does the military have the same issues? Or are they more likely to see the corruption of our leaders? The majority of the soldiers I've spoken with seem to be at least somewhat concerned with what our leaders are doing. The police, not so much.

reply to post by ivbnu

The difference is though police take an oath to up hold the foundational documents and they seem to have forgoten which orders are lawful or not. No matter how scared anyone get its not an excuse to point a gun at me in my own home, and strip me of my rights.

Right you are, but these boys now have to defend and abide by the Patriot Act. This is why the word terrorist and terrorism are thrown around so much instead of the word 'enemy'. As soon as they call someone a terrorist or state there's been an act of terrorism, all law enforcement activities must coincide with the Patriot Act. If they kept talking about 'enemies', then they'd have to follow the Constitution, but they really want to avoid this because of that little word following 'foreign'. You know, enemies foreign and domestic. The real terrorists want people to pay as little attention as possible to this very important phrase.

Originally posted by Anjola
Wow - I thought there would be at lease a few people strongly sticking up for law enforcement. It's nice to see that I'm not remotely alone in my concerns! Although I would be curious to see what points an opposing opinion might bring up...

I wasn't aware of the IQ limits for new recruits - that's really embarrassing!! (And not just for the officers, but it reflects badly on society as a whole.)

I have friends that are good friends with most of our local police officers and sheriff's deputies (in fact, my brother-in-law is a deputy.) From occasionally socializing with them, they don't seem like horrible people - but very brainwashed by the system they serve. There's no questioning the status quo, there's no questioning their opinion, they complain there are too many laws that protect criminals, they goof off a LOT while on duty (I've heard lots of stories...), everything is a black and white issue, etc...

Does the military have the same issues? Or are they more likely to see the corruption of our leaders? The majority of the soldiers I've spoken with seem to be at least somewhat concerned with what our leaders are doing. The police, not so much.

Most of the uh less um tightly wound people see something like martial law in the subject and know to avoid it.

reply to post by MrSpad

Uh, let's talk about some, um, other people who wanted to avoid Martial Law, uh, shall we?
www.globalresearch.ca...

The financial bailout legislation of September 2008 was only passed after members of both Congressional houses were warned that failure to act would threaten civil unrest and the imposition of martial law.

U.S. Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla., and U.S. Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Calif., both said U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson brought up a worst-case scenario as he pushed for the Wall Street bailout in September. Paulson, former Goldman Sachs CEO, said that might even require a declaration of martial law, the two noted.4

Speaking on Tulsa Oklahoma’s 1170 KFAQ, when asked who was behind threats of martial law and civil unrest if the bailout bill failed, Senator James Inhofe named Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson as the source. “Somebody in D.C. was feeding you guys quite a story prior to the bailout, a story that if we didn’t do this we were going to see something on the scale of the depression, there were people talking about martial law being instituted, civil unrest….who was feeding you guys this stuff?,” asked host Pat Campbell. “That’s Henry Paulson,” responded Inhofe, “We had a conference call early on, it was on a Friday I think – a week and half before the vote on Oct. 1. So it would have been the middle … what was it – the 19th of September, we had a conference call. In this conference call – and I guess there’s no reason for me not to repeat what he said, but he said – he painted this picture you just described. He said, ‘This is serious. This is the most serious thing that we faced.’”5

Originally posted by MrSpad
Most of the uh less um tightly wound people see something like martial law in the subject and know to avoid it.

Could be.
What are your thoughts regarding this? Do you like the police response we saw in Boston?

Originally posted by Anjola
From occasionally socializing with them, they don't seem like horrible people - but very brainwashed by the system they serve. There's no questioning the status quo, there's no questioning their opinion, they complain there are too many laws that protect criminals, they goof off a LOT while on duty (I've heard lots of stories...), everything is a black and white issue, etc...

Yeah, I have the same experience here. Although it's often a fun 'discussion' as I'm pretty opinionated and have BTDT a lot more than the average cop while in the military. It makes for fun arguments, although with most of the cops I know a logical argument is tough for them.

I've actually had one get all foamy at the mouth when I shot his argument to pieces in front of his buddies, he actually threatened to arrest me for disturbing the peace at one point "to teach me a lesson".

Does the military have the same issues? Or are they more likely to see the corruption of our leaders? The majority of the soldiers I've spoken with seem to be at least somewhat concerned with what our leaders are doing. The police, not so much.

I tended to see a lot more non-uniformity in the Army than what I observe from LEOs. Not that you don't have a lot of gung-ho hoorah types, but there's also pretty normal guys and a lot of slackers.

However, I've only got a half-dozen relatives and another half-dozen LEO friends to pick from. It may be that's too small a sample size. My relatives that were not blue-line-gungho all ended up quitting and starting an arson investigation business.

Pretty sensationalistic title. Believe me, 99.9% of americans have never seen anything remotely close to martial law. Boston was not a case of martial law. There was no order placed that made it illegal to leave your house. It was ASKED.

The thing that people seem to fail to realize when looking at these events, is that so many people, just like so many cops, create the 'us vs. them' mentality. So many people will blatantly disregard something as soon as they find out it came from a cop. So many people will hear the cops making public announcements, and say 'forget that, I'm doing the opposite", so many people see a police presence and automatically say 'martial law!'. So many people hear the cops asking for help, and decide they would rather cheer for legitimately evil people.

Then you have cops like this, who basically have the mindset of 'get out of our way and dont ask questions'. Ive said it so many times, the day that it switched from 'to serve and protect' to 'law enforcement' was a very dark day in this country.

But reality SHOULD lie somewhere in the middle. We all admit that a police force is necessary in a civilized community. But we also need to realize that for the police to do their job in extreme circumstances requires some help (not obedience, help) from the people. And the people should be willing to give it. And the police need to get back to knowing their role. And knowing that they work FOR and WITH the people, not against them.

This society belongs to all of us. And we should all act accordingly.

Warrior cops? What an insult to true warriors and a line of crap from an overpaid crossing guard!

Wariors stormed Omaha beach againt a well armed, determined enemy. Warriors charged down the slopes of Little Round Top into the bayonets and muskets of a fierce foe. Warriors took on the British Empire against superior odds at the height of their power.

Do NOT insult these, the REAL warriors as you arm yourselves to the teeth, dressing like, and pretending to be soldiers as you drag innocent, un-armed women and children out of their own homes with rifles in their faces in true SS fashion. These people are cowards and scum. We unarmed civilians suffer far more casualties at the hands of the criminasl AND the cops for that matter! We are closer to being warriors than these pussies! Thump your chests and slap your beer bellies all you want boys, you are only fooling yourselves!

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Thank you - that was very thoughtfully said. If we want to create a better reality we'll need more perspective like that.

However, I would still argue that what we saw is best described as martial law and is not okay. I'm sure it can (and probably will) get far worse than what happened in Boston - but it doesn't change the fact that militarized law enforcement effectively shut down a city for a full day and searched people's home at gun point without warrants. Perhaps there was no official (legal) order given, but unfortunately, they didn't need one. (And people are testifying that they attempted to stop the police from searching their homes, but felt they had no choice and would be treated like a suspect if they didn't cooperate.) This is unprecedented in the US and was all done to protect us from an injured, lone 19 year old suspect.

America is a weird pace these days.

But I don't mind martial law, I don't see it as a problem, because I'd rather be safe than have loonatics running around freely. Keep in mind please, that the Boston guys were allegedly planning an attack in NY too.

martial law does not affect much in ones life unless you just simply have a problem with authority. It is the same with street cameras. Who cares, unless you have things to hide? It will only ever affect me if I'm doing something wrong, and might save me or even identify someone who tries to harm me on the streets.

reply to post by MadMax7

Yes, but what is "safe"?
I've seen more reports about cops who are a danger to the public than terrorists. When they are one in the same, we are outnumbered more than we know.
Here's a story where a woman was raped by a cop and he was arrested. The evidence verifies her story, so he's cooked. Now, she's saying that the police department have been following her. I don't believe the police are allowed to stalk victims of sex crimes.
www.wftv.com...

But in new documents, the victim said the intimidation didn't stop with Johnson's arrest. She told prosecutors she thought OPD officers were tailing her through her cellphone GPS, because they seemed to know exactly where she was.

And workers at the motel where the alleged victim was living told state attorney investigators Orlando detectives came looking for her and stayed several hours, posing as electricians or fire marshals so they'd know when she left.

One witness said the alleged victim walked down a set of stairs, and an officer was waiting downstairs. The witness said the officer crouched down near a fire extinguisher box to pretend like he was working on it.

The victim said she was heading to the bus stop around the corner and before she could even get to it, she was stopped by an unmarked police car.

Victim intimidation is exactly what this is and those involved need to stop what they're doing immediately and let justice do its thing.

In this world, I really don't know who's crazier. The so called terrorists or the ones who are supposed to protect and serve the citizens.

Is he seriously calling Law Enforcement Officers 'Warrior Cops'?

From the tone of the post you would think they had taken down a gang of terrorists that had been running amok in Boston instead of 2 terrified amateurs.

Now, I truly appreciate the job they undertake is dangerous and for the most part unappreciated on a day to day basis. However, I really think a reality check is in order of the highest order. The response put in place after the killing of Tamerlan, was totally out of proportion, likened to a sledge hammer to crack a nut.

There was some inept policing as the events unfurled, and for this officer not to acknowledge this, demonstrates his enormous complacency and arrogance imo.

Just because they are not calling it Martial Law, the way the police pointed their firearms at innocent families and searching their homes without warrants, very much looked and undoubtedly felt like it for these families.

I think he is warning people that this is going to be the way of policing from now on. People have seen it coming for some time and have been flamed for saying such things. But hey, it's for your protection, embrace your servitude.

reply to post by MadMax7


Ya know I don't even understand how people can really, honestly have the kind of perspective as you do. I'm just curious, how old are you??? What kind of area you live in and part of the country or what country for that matter?? Have you traveled around much at all??? Do you live a life which is totally sterile and safe and conformity or do you or have you ever personally taken any risks on the darker side of life????

I'm being serious too, this is no joke, because for anyone to actually say "I don't have a problem with martial law" or the other comments you make just seems like the words of someone who is completely full of sh!t or someone who doesn't have a clue as to the changes taking place in the world or why they are happening.

I'm sorry if that sounded rude too, it's nothing personal I just cannot for the life of me identify with what you're saying.

reply to post by MadMax7


Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion although it is truely frightening to hear people who are willing to give up ALL their rights and freedoms for any reason at all. Coming from a cop family I have heard more than my fair share of horror stories.

Keep in mind that once martial law is in full efect, or Boston Marathon Law for that matter, all someone has to do is point to a person that they don't lke or have a grudge with or even mistakenly say, "There he is he's the one", and down to the ground you go dazed, tazed and beaten if you are lucky, dead if you are not. And who would have thought that being "arrested" would turn out to be such a good thing because at least then you have some rights. When you are "detained" you just go away kicking and screaming. My own brother used to tell me "I can arrest anyone, anytime for any number of reasons that they don't even know about! And that was well before the police state of today.

Enjoy your life and your freedom and cherish it dearly for it is all about to disappear and an ugly, evil America will take it's place.

Originally posted by ooYODAoo
i work at a police department, and a couple of days ago i was talking to some of the cops in regards to the videos of Boston pd raiding people houses and treating their own people like crap...


and the cops response was..."If i had to shoot my cousin,my brother, my mother, even one of my kids..i would do it..you have to do what you have to do, you know?"

and almost simultaneously about another 5 more cops agreed and approved of this guys comment...and then when i asked them what was wrong with them...why would they think its ok to do anything like that that..i was given the response. that if i keep thinking like that then maybe i shouldn't work at a police department.

and i think this is the general mentality when it comes to the meat head borderline psychopathic cops that we hire..then again this is exactly what the system wants..brutes that would be willing to kill their own mothers and children to keep their status in society as an "authority"

Rest assured, you are not alone in your ideals. That sounds like a hostile environment to me and I wish you the best of luck fighting those turds (if you choose to do so). Around these parts, they wouldn't go over so well. And I'd be in the front of the line to make sure we didn't duplicate the assassination of the 4th Amendment like Boston did. Also note that a lot of those in Boston were FBI, toward which I think all sorts of contempt is justified.

Here is another example of the mentality of those who believe they are above the same law in which they are enforcing:

Man Dies in Police Raid on Wrong House

A 61-year-old man was shot to death by police while his wife was handcuffed in another room during a drug raid on the wrong house. Police admitted their mistake, saying faulty information from a drug informant contributed to the death of John Adams Wednesday night. They intended to raid the home next door.

And the reaction by the official "talking head"...

“We did the best surveillance we could do, and a mistake was made,” Lebanon Police Chief Billy Weeks said. “It’s a very severe mistake, a costly mistake. It makes us look at our own policies and procedures to make sure this never occurs again.” He said, however, the two policemen were not at fault.

And the result of making such a "mistake" to the officers involved....

The two officers, 25-year-old Kyle Shedran and 24-year-old Greg Day, were placed on administrative leave with pay.

Ya know, if it was me and I had just murdered an old man in his home because I got the wrong house, I doubt I would be able to view myself, law enforcement, or the world in general in the same way as before let alone simply take my leave with pay and wait it out till I'm back on "the force"!!!!

reply to post by mOjOm


If the U.S has a similar policy as the U.K, those officers will be cleared after an internal investigation and be back out on duty once the initial furore has died down.

In the U.K the police appear to be untouchable, it's very rare that a case of brutality goes to court and if it does, they are usually cleared of all charges.

And people say we don't live in a police state. Well, maybe not quite, but we're getting there quite rapidly.

The police in America have been out of control for a while now. In fact, it is not a recent trend at all. Police steeping over the line goes a long way back; even before the Vietnam war days. Every time the American people stand up to the government, the first goons called out to deal with it are the police. It is that now we have the internet so it is really hard to hide all the things American police do these days. I worked with a guy who used to be an military MP and a beat cop. This guy is one of the worst humans beings I have ever met in my life. His level of Jingo thinking is way out of hand. He pretty much hates everyone who is not American and and do not support the US gov 100 percent. He always something bad to say about Japan and Japanese people. He even hates most people in general. It is really stressful to work with him and the saddest part is that he has budded up with me at work for some reason. He cannot realize that he is putting a lot of stress on me at work and I really disagree with him about everything. He loves to argue and talk about his point of view all the time. He does not even see my point of view and is quick to dismiss anything I say.

Imho the only good cop is a dead cop. I hate them all they are not protectors but tax men and body snatchers i will defend my self and my family they are not needed.

Not only is that a disgusting comment, it's laughably wrong. You honestly think you can defend yourself if there was no law enforcement?

And do you honestly think if all law enforcement was gone, society would place nice, and all the good would come out of everyone? Are you KIDDING me? When we LOOT our neighbors stores at their greatest time of crisis.. you really think we are a good and decent society that doesn't need law enforcement?

The day after law enforcement disappeared, would be the day millions of people would be murdered by their fellow humans. You are an ignorant and vile human.