Garment Factory collapse highlights dark side of Capitalism

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posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 09:34 PM
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This is a topic that I have seen brought up ocassionally on forums, but it doesn't usually get the attention it deserves. The issue is called "Externalizing Costs" (I think) which is a fancy way of saying many people don't see the harmful effects of cutthroat capitalism, because they are hidden from them- or at least swept under the rug by locating then in obscure, poor or far-away locations.

According to this article this tragedy wasn't just an accident- it was an accident waiting to happen because business takes advantage of places with low standards or regulations to run businesses as cheaply, and dangerously as possible.

www.cnn.com...

(CNN) -- The sad fact behind the building collapse in Bangladesh in which hundreds died is that it isn't an isolated problem. The story will leave the headlines at the end of this week but on Monday hundreds of thousands of workers will return to factories that are frankly further tragedies waiting to happen, and will keep producing clothes for high street brands.

Seven hundred workers have died in factory collapses and fires in this very small region outside Dhaka alone in the last decade.

Savar, where the building collapse took place, is a swampland (yes, swampland...) north of the Bangladeshi capital which has seen mass growth in recent years.

This same region was the site of a horrific factory fire in November last year, when 112 workers burned alive in a building with no fire exits.

Hundreds of factories are being thrown up in a short space of time, with limited building regulations, to meet the growing demand from western brands for cheap export clothing. And it is cheap. Wages for Bangladeshi workers are the lowest in Asia, aside from the recently opened Myanmar industry, at $37 a month.

Read more: At least 250 killed in fire at Bangladeshi clothing factory

As the demand for cheap clothing grows in the west, brands continue to look for ways to race to the bottom on prices, and sadly this involves cutting corners on health and safety. Brands will by no means admit to this.




posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 09:50 PM
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Those bastages are going to burn in hell. I can't believe that people don't stand up and take notice. The erosion of manufacturing in the US has led to so many horrors for the third world.

Recently I watched that Jon Pilger documentary on the abuses of factory workers in Indonesia. So heartbreaking. Why oh why do we, occupiers of this earth, not stand up and revolt.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 10:11 PM
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Correction




Garment Factory collapse highlights dark side of Capitalism human nature


Seriously, capitalism?

That's what you're going to blame? Why, because all those communist countries had really really amazing conditions for their workers?

This is a product of human nature. Since the beginning of time no matter the system, we have slaved out one another, or lived off the broken backs of others. No matter the system.

There are idealistic systems of government/society where everyone gets their equal stake, but this utopian world is just not realistic.

Is it fair for some lazy ass halfwit to earn exactly the same as I do? If I put in 60-80 hr work weeks, upgrade my knowledge/skil-sets continuously, should someone who does 1/10th of what I do be receiving the same compensation as me for their efforts (or lack thereof).

This is a product of you, of everyone, who will only buy the cheapest thing they can find. Who put all the independent discount brands out of business.

(By the way when I say "you" I'm not addressing you the OP specifically. It's generalized. Directed at all readers.)

You did it because instead of being happy with just a few items in your car, you wanted all of them. Instead of having a couple accessories to your wardrobe, you wanted all of them. Because you had the option of buying a well made, hand crafted local or perhaps even foreign suit, but you went to a discount brand and saw for the same price of that suit, you could own 10 suits. And because you don't like doing laundry you bought 20 cheap shirts as opposed to one well made on with a respectable development/production history.

You could have one $500 belt that would last 10 years, but would rather get the $20 one, and get 10 of them. Then it looks like you are always wearing something new, like you have just oodles and oodles of cool stuff in your wardrobe. Cause your hipsterness makes it so you don't look like some schmoe who "sold out to the man", yea, you don't need a handcrafted Italian name on your clothes, cause being hip means you can have the coolest looks and spend pennies on it. That makes you less pretentious. Less of a yuppy, cause it's the yuppies that spend exorbitant amounts of money on their stuff. And they are just corporatized cogs in the wheel of capitalism. They are total sell outs man!!!

But yea, so many dumb hippies trying to say how they won't "give in" to capitalists, bla, bla, bla. That they don't succumb to social pressures and ignore the ideals set out by mass media, bla bla bla.

Yeah those same people are the ones buying crap that falls apart after wearing it 5 times, and have to go buy more stuff made by 12-16 year olds out of India or China.

Irony.

Hypocrisy.

LULZ.

I admit, my wardrobe is insanely expensive.

I spend 30-50 dollars on socks. Same on underwear. (individual pairs.)

I have $600 Shoes.

$500 belts.

$1000 suits.

$300 dress shirts.

My plain shirts are usually only around $50-75.

Jeans are $200.

And sure some might same, "You is a damn pretentious, label whore, a shill to the corporatocracy, bla, bla, bla..."

Yeah, but no.

I buy for one reason, quality.

The people that make my clothes are well paid, well skilled. Sometimes I like to make purchases out of season to save money. I don't need the latest garbage, crap trend setting waste that people spend WAAYY too much on. No, I buy expensive for one reason and one reason only.

I buy because I know it's made by real people. By skilled workers. The brands I buy are quality made. I don't buy a shirt simply because it is $300. I don't buy the trendy stuff that is $300 only because it is trendy, and regardless still comes from the sweat shops, the higher price representing people's naivety and not quality.

Yep, I don't by any logo prints. If you looked at my wardrobe you would be hard pressed to find the actual designer stamp without reading the tags. I'm not a fan of logo prints, and most of the logo prints are off discounted lines that are made in sweat shops.

All brands have different lines.

The clothes I buy, I stick to only buying classics.

It's easy:

Spend more.

Buy Classic styles that come and go every year or so, but don't vanish. Stay away from anything that is fad like.

People will scald me say, "OMG you waste so much money on clothes."

to which I


I did a comparative analysis with someone I know who buys the cheapest stuff they can find. I spend less!



"BS Boncho! I don't believe you."

Consider that a belt, a pair of shoes, socks, underwear, shirts, jackets, etc., all last me 6-10 years. Yep, this year I upgraded a belt, realized the damn thing was 7 years old. Put on a pair of shoes the other day, had to polish them up since it was awhile since I had... Thought to myself, 'Damn, these things are ten years old now.'

And that's how it works. If I have anything that falls apart within a year of buying it, I blacklist that maker from my wardrobe.

Think about it $40 Belt, lifespan? Maybe 6 months-year. $500 Belt, handcrafted, top quality. 10 year lifespan if not longer. Same with shoes. Best part, worth getting repaired if damaged. You don't see many repair shops anymore for anything. We live in a throw away society. Heck, when I reached college age, most of my clothes were 70's era. Not because I went shopping "vintage" but because I started fitting Dad's size. So he gave me all his clothes from the 70's. All of it was in good condition. Heck, half of it looked brand new.

Amazing how long things will last when they are made properly to begin with.

So yeah, $1200 on a pair of shoes and belt. That's cheaper than buying a $60 set ($120) every year, sometimes twice a year for some people.
edit on 26-4-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 10:15 PM
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And sadly, it's nothing new.

The Triangle Shirtwaist Fire of 1911 in the US -


275 girls started to collect their belongings as they were leaving work at 4:45 PM on Saturday. Within twenty minutes some of girls' charred bodies were lined up along the East Side of Greene Street. Those girls who flung themselves from the ninth floor were merely covered with tarpaulins where they hit the concrete. The Bellevue morgue was overrun with bodies and a makeshift morgue was set up on the adjoining pier on the East River.

Hundred's of parents and family members came to identify their lost loved ones. 146 employees of the Triangle Shirtwaist Company were dead the night of March 25, 1911. The horror of their deaths led to numerous changes in occupational safety standards that currently ensure the safety of workers today.


www.csun.edu...

The corporations will feign sadness and very quickly build another death trap in an even cheaper location.

ETA - the bad side of human nature, yes.. But, there is a good side as well.

And Boncho - are you really sure your $50 underwear is NOT made in one of these factories?
edit on 26-4-2013 by Maluhia because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 


My my my. Aren't you full of yourself. Your 600$ shoes pays half of some people's rent.

The regular joe doesn't spend 300$ on a shirt cuz they are feeding three kids.

You think consumerism is the fault of the regular guy? No, I think the regular gut had consumerism jammed down his throat.

Dude, my family has had money. I know all about people like you. Sit in your glass house pondering about the ills of society. While cruising out to buy a 500$ belt. Seriously, were you trying to impress everyone?

What about the family that has to buy school clothes for their kids in August. Should they go balls to the wall??

I feel a little throw-up in the back of my mouth.

Self-righteous so and so.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by GrantedBail


My my my. Aren't you full of yourself. Your 600$ shoes pays half of some people's rent.

The regular joe doesn't spend 300$ on a shirt cuz they are feeding three kids.

You think consumerism is the fault of the regular guy? No, I think the regular gut had consumerism jammed down his throat.

 


See, here we go. Probably failed to read my entire post. Also, completely ignorant to simple economics, as well as instilled with the knee jerk (Youz can feed starving kids in Africas).

You are the type to support child labour, albeit probably ignorant to the fact that you do.

Consumerism is a choice. You can choose (Albeit sometimes difficult at the dwindling options available.) to buy crap, or you can choose to buy quality made goods with a history of how they came to be.

And I don't really see my dependents as relevant, but I will say I have taken into care family or friends and/or their offspring... So I am familiar with "feeding their kids" and all that BS. But great way to play on people's emotions.




Dude, my family has had money. I know all about people like you. Sit in your glass house pondering about the ills of society. While cruising out to buy a 500$ belt. Seriously, were you trying to impress everyone?



Lucky you then. As I said, my wardrobe in my early 20's was hand-me-downs from 70s era clothing. Family members closets I raided so I had something to wear.

I didn't come from money. I'm self-made, was poor as travelling salesman in my early years.




What about the family that has to buy school clothes for their kids in August. Should they go balls to the wall??


My Mother made our clothes. I recently read about a company, started by a mom making top quality, lasting clothing for kids. I think the woman won an award for her company.

The best part, is if you buy these types of clothing for your kids, is you can either start, or be part of a clothing exchange in your local community. I know cause some of my family members do this. Essentially, since kids grow out of their stuff so fast, you create a clothing exchange (Very easy to do now with the conveniences like Facebook et al.) And people trade/sell,etc clothing for kids that have outgrown their wardrobe.




Self-righteous so and so.



Well, if you avoid looking in the mirror you won't see it so often so keep your chin up.




posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 


First off, I read your entire post. My conclusion still stands.

Most families have two working parents so there is no time for sewing their children's clothes. It appears you are oblivious to the daily grind of a home with children.

Who can afford to buy a 100$ sweater for a kid that it's not going to fit in 6 months?

Those items that you are advocating aren't affordable for most American's. It seems that their salaries haven't kept up with the prices of having some kind of life.

Is it their fault? Oh, yeah, everyone gathers on the corner on Saturdays to discuss how we are getting over on those ignoramouses by exploiting third world labor. It is always one of the topics of discussion at the neighborhood bbq.

Pfffft.
edit on 26-4-2013 by GrantedBail because: (no reason given)
edit on 26-4-2013 by GrantedBail because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by GrantedBail


Most families have two working parents so there is no time for sewing their children's clothes. It appears you are oblivious to the daily grind of a home with children.

 


I didn't say this had to be done that way. I pointed it out as an option. I previously mentioned I was familiar with the daily grind of a home with children. Perhaps you have comprehension problems, or your coping skills are beyond their limit that it is impossible for you to imagine a situation of the same circumstances, without the problems or manifested problems you have/believe in.




Who can afford to buy a 100$ sweater for a kid that it's not going to fit in 6 months?



Already addressed that in an earlier post.




Those items that you are advocating aren't affordable for most American's. It seems that their salaries haven't kept up with the prices of having some kind of life.


Considering after I lost a company (which tanked because of a corporate takeover of the industry it was in) I started from scratch, and my living expenses were well within anyone making minimum wage, the rest was saved for future investment and a new company. That was a few years ago, I know it's possible, first hand.




Is it their fault? Oh, yeah, everyone gathers on the corner on Saturday's to discuss how we are exploiting third world labor. It is always one of the topic of discussions at the neighborhood bbq.



Huh?



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 


I have excellent comprehension skills. It appears that you and I are of different value and belief systems.

Your original reply left me with the taint of "elitist". I think that is where your leanings are. It is not fair to categorize others, I know, but I still do it.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

Go Rand Paul 2016...right??



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 11:10 PM
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Watching the back and forth here, I must say human nature at it's finest! "I am right, you don't understand. No, I am right and you don't understand"

Maybe the trick is to try to understand without first believing we are right. Just a thought. Carry on.
edit on 26-4-2013 by Maluhia because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 11:11 PM
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Is it fair for some lazy ass halfwit to earn exactly the same as I do?


No one said that.

I also am not a hippie. I support mixed economies (i.e. not deregulated).

I will agree though that buying less cheap junk is probably good for the world, in more way than one.

You completely missed my main point however, which is that many people who worship capitalism are able to do so because many of the serious problems it causes are hidden from average people.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 11:14 PM
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Guys (and Ladies), a little secret


When an enslaved working class, works in unsafe conditions and depressed wages, to provide cheap goods, which are product dumped into and deflating a consumption-only economy, and sold through an oligopoly channel of dominant 3 sellers - who are exclusivity trading partners with the nation who enslaved the production manufacturing workers to begin with.

shhhhhhhh (looking around cautiously.... ) That is NOT capitalism.....




posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by TheEthicalSkeptic
 


No it is not capitalism.

It is globalism at it's finest.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by Maluhia
 


That is kind of hard to do when you feel impassioned about certain issues. Usually you take a stand on one side of an issue after careful examination. I considered Bo's side at one time, I reject it vehemently.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 


bonchol you the man however I don't see how you find time to shop working 80 hours a week. you must be exhausted. I too appreciate quality, but a 500 dollar belt. Man that must be some belt. Maybe you could turn me onto a catalog. I could use some good stuff.

I'm just a little bit skeptical. Are you sure you know the origins of this stuff? I find that some of this really expensive stuff is made by the same cheap labor, it's just that they use good quality materials. Take Apple products they have a reputation for quality but their business model is based on cheap labor. I believe they had a similar problem a while back, with a factory that went bad.

The problem with free marketers, is that they get blinded by the profits. Free market are not the ultimate expression of correctness. Just as greed and self interest is not a guarantee of a utopic existence.

Good luck with those 80 hour work weeks. You going to look good in that coffin with that 500 dollar belt.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 12:33 AM
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Do I understand correctly that the factory was unsafely built and located by Bangladeshis, that meaningless inspections were conducted by the Bangladeshi government, and that the people who buy the factory's product are responsible for the factory's safety safety?

Bangladesh can't protect it's workers so it relies on US companies to do it for them? That's how it seems, but it makes no sense.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by GrantedBail


My my my. Aren't you full of yourself. Your 600$ shoes pays half of some people's rent.

The regular joe doesn't spend 300$ on a shirt cuz they are feeding three kids.

You think consumerism is the fault of the regular guy? No, I think the regular gut had consumerism jammed down his throat.

 


See, here we go. Probably failed to read my entire post. Also, completely ignorant to simple economics, as well as instilled with the knee jerk (Youz can feed starving kids in Africas).

You are the type to support child labour, albeit probably ignorant to the fact that you do.

Consumerism is a choice. You can choose (Albeit sometimes difficult at the dwindling options available.) to buy crap, or you can choose to buy quality made goods with a history of how they came to be.

And I don't really see my dependents as relevant, but I will say I have taken into care family or friends and/or their offspring... So I am familiar with "feeding their kids" and all that BS. But great way to play on people's emotions.




Dude, my family has had money. I know all about people like you. Sit in your glass house pondering about the ills of society. While cruising out to buy a 500$ belt. Seriously, were you trying to impress everyone?



Lucky you then. As I said, my wardrobe in my early 20's was hand-me-downs from 70s era clothing. Family members closets I raided so I had something to wear.

I didn't come from money. I'm self-made, was poor as travelling salesman in my early years.




What about the family that has to buy school clothes for their kids in August. Should they go balls to the wall??


My Mother made our clothes. I recently read about a company, started by a mom making top quality, lasting clothing for kids. I think the woman won an award for her company.

The best part, is if you buy these types of clothing for your kids, is you can either start, or be part of a clothing exchange in your local community. I know cause some of my family members do this. Essentially, since kids grow out of their stuff so fast, you create a clothing exchange (Very easy to do now with the conveniences like Facebook et al.) And people trade/sell,etc clothing for kids that have outgrown their wardrobe.




Self-righteous so and so.



Well, if you avoid looking in the mirror you won't see it so often so keep your chin up.




Its you again, You dont make a very good impression. I would hazard a guess youre running on daddys money, Or did, and you are sheltered besides your internet. Go out in the real world, do some back breaking labor in your nice clothes. I bet they wont be nice anymore. Us little people need clothes wih function and cheap because we get them dirty doing the jobs you would scoff at.

Every post you make, I get just a little more irritated at how close minded you are.


How about we invest in LOCAL businesses. Buy from the people you know are in america? I dont want to fund the sweat shop pimps, I also dont want to put these families out, but Priorities are to America. Why? Because thats where I live and what I support.

Maybe I can spend what little bit of my hard earned money I have on a 600 dollar shirt and go hungry, But feel a little better about myself.


didnt say i was right about my guess of you, but thats how youre coming off.
edit on 27-4-2013 by mactheaxe because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


I think you miss the point. American companies that do manufacturing business throughout the third world turn a blind eye to the abuses. They know what is up. That is why they sent the work there. The governments are bribed and propped up the the World Bank and the IMF. Their Western-friendly dictators skim off theirs and the populace suffers. This is about oppression. There are many guilty actors. It is complicated and so very sad.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by mactheaxe

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by GrantedBail


My my my. Aren't you full of yourself. Your 600$ shoes pays half of some people's rent.

The regular joe doesn't spend 300$ on a shirt cuz they are feeding three kids.

You think consumerism is the fault of the regular guy? No, I think the regular gut had consumerism jammed down his throat.

 


See, here we go. Probably failed to read my entire post. Also, completely ignorant to simple economics, as well as instilled with the knee jerk (Youz can feed starving kids in Africas).

You are the type to support child labour, albeit probably ignorant to the fact that you do.

Consumerism is a choice. You can choose (Albeit sometimes difficult at the dwindling options available.) to buy crap, or you can choose to buy quality made goods with a history of how they came to be.

And I don't really see my dependents as relevant, but I will say I have taken into care family or friends and/or their offspring... So I am familiar with "feeding their kids" and all that BS. But great way to play on people's emotions.




Dude, my family has had money. I know all about people like you. Sit in your glass house pondering about the ills of society. While cruising out to buy a 500$ belt. Seriously, were you trying to impress everyone?



Lucky you then. As I said, my wardrobe in my early 20's was hand-me-downs from 70s era clothing. Family members closets I raided so I had something to wear.

I didn't come from money. I'm self-made, was poor as travelling salesman in my early years.




What about the family that has to buy school clothes for their kids in August. Should they go balls to the wall??


My Mother made our clothes. I recently read about a company, started by a mom making top quality, lasting clothing for kids. I think the woman won an award for her company.

The best part, is if you buy these types of clothing for your kids, is you can either start, or be part of a clothing exchange in your local community. I know cause some of my family members do this. Essentially, since kids grow out of their stuff so fast, you create a clothing exchange (Very easy to do now with the conveniences like Facebook et al.) And people trade/sell,etc clothing for kids that have outgrown their wardrobe.




Self-righteous so and so.



Well, if you avoid looking in the mirror you won't see it so often so keep your chin up.




Its you again, You dont make a very good impression. I would hazard a guess youre running on daddys money, Or did, and you are sheltered besides your internet. Go out in the real world, do some back breaking labor in your nice clothes. I bet they wont be nice anymore. Us little people need clothes wih function and cheap because we get them dirty doing the jobs you would scoff at.

Every post you make, I get just a little more irritated at how close minded you are.


How about we invest in LOCAL businesses. Buy from the people you know are in america? I dont want to fund the sweat shop pimps, I also dont want to put these families out, but Priorities are to America. Why? Because thats where I live and what I support.

Maybe I can spend what little bit of my hard earned money I have on a 600 dollar shirt and go hungry, But feel a little better about myself.


Ps, I didnt say i was right about my guess, but that;s how youre coming off.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by boncho

Correction




Garment Factory collapse highlights dark side of Capitalism human nature


Seriously, capitalism?

That's what you're going to blame? Why, because all those communist countries had really really amazing conditions for their workers?



This is a completely fallious rebuttal to the 'dark side of Capitatism'. Because another (the other????) side has a dark side as well, DOES NOT EXCUSE ANYTHING.

This is the type of 'argument' (I use the term very lightly) that is used by people with no rational or factual argument to a statement.

The OP is correct in bring to our attention the DARK SIDE of capitalism's extreme externalizing of COSTS that we the people (here and abroad) pay so that BIG BUSINESS can keep making obscene profits.

Definition of FREE ENTERPRISE - Public expense and private profit.

If you are going to defend capitalism, in this case or anyother, do it on capitalism's merits - not the failures of other economic systems.

Your ignorance is showing.





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