Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at Salt Lake grocery store

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posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by extraterrestrialentity
There would be no way to stop him with a knife. The only way to stop him would be to get close to him, and by then, he would probably kill you. Unless you're some kind martial arts expert like Chuck Norris.


So the guy has 360 vision? He is not only a criminal but he also has ESP and will know where you are at all times.
While he is stabbing or attempting to stab someone, you go behind him and knife him in the back.
Or if there are a few of you, you distract him and then knife him.... or you pick up a can of beans or peas or corned beef and throw it at the guys face.

This isn't about a gun.... it's about bravery and taking on an assailant or aggressor... this time the only guy brave enough was a gun owner, next time... it's a guy who smacks him with a hockey stick.







Nothing is better than a gun. Not only are they powerful, they look scary too. You don't even have to shoot, the criminal will probably just stop right their, just by seeing the gun.




Uh huh.....




posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by alldaylong
Chap with knife lunges at chap with gun. Gun gets knocked out of gun wielders hand. Knife man picks up gun and starts shooting innocent passers-by instead of knifing them.
Yes you could imagine that happening.


I've also imagined unicorns, leprechauns, and the Easter Bunny riding a velociraptor in a pink hat to hide eggs in my yard.

If you have a guy armed with a knife at gunpoint, and he lunges at you, you shoot him. If your options are defend yourself at the expense of another, or do nothing and potentially suffer severe bodily harm or DEATH, you choose yourself.

You also don't stand two feet away from a guy with a knife while holding him at gunpoint. So yeah, I can see your situation playing out if the guy with the gun was the biggest idiot in the world.

This isn't the movies.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by BenReclused
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


Its a lie, guns dont stop criminals.......they only kill people.......

Nope! That's only your intentional misinterpretation of facts!

People with guns often stop crimes without a shot being fired. I reckon that's normally not newsworthy, though.

See ya,
Milt



wow.......very clear people have a hard time catching sarcasm



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


Lol I knew that was your scarcasm



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by TinkerHaus

Originally posted by alldaylong
Chap with knife lunges at chap with gun. Gun gets knocked out of gun wielders hand. Knife man picks up gun and starts shooting innocent passers-by instead of knifing them.
Yes you could imagine that happening.


I've also imagined unicorns, leprechauns, and the Easter Bunny riding a velociraptor in a pink hat to hide eggs in my yard.

If you have a guy armed with a knife at gunpoint, and he lunges at you, you shoot him. If your options are defend yourself at the expense of another, or do nothing and potentially suffer severe bodily harm or DEATH, you choose yourself.

You also don't stand two feet away from a guy with a knife while holding him at gunpoint. So yeah, I can see your situation playing out if the guy with the gun was the biggest idiot in the world.

This isn't the movies.


So you think you can't disarm someone with a gun?

www.military.com...

Oh dear. Which movies do you watch?



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 02:30 PM
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Interesting comments.
I find it...fascinating...,for lack of a better word, that some people will go so far as to demonize a citizen for intervening in a crime just because he used a firearm. Yeah, man. Come at me with a ball bat when I have a knife and I GUARANTEE you numerous stitches and a trip to the proctologist to recover your ball bat, or your catapult, or your nunchakus. Get my drift.
NOT THREATENING anyone, just making the point that you DO NO KNOW who you are approaching. Overwhelming firepower and the THREAT of its use WILL deter violence or end it quickly. I can just see me or anyone swinging a ball bat in a store full of people, including kids. If ANYONE deserves the moniker, "moron", it is ANYONE who would endanger more people by NOT commanding the situation with obvious superior firepower and the will to use it if need be. If you have no choice, then use a club or whatever, but only a fool brings a knife to a gunfight. I like to put the criminal in the category of fool, not me or innocent bystanders.
The hypocrisy of the people who will scream loud and long at anyone calling ILLEGAL ALIENS by this, the correct term really annoys me. NO, we must call them "undocumented immigrants". Or do not call Islam the enemy or you might offend a "religion of peace". Horsesh*t!! How many Muslims have you heard decrying the crimes committed against innocent people just because they are NOT Muslim? Hmm..... listen closely...hmmm...I'm sure they are there...ssshh... quiet, listen.........*chirp, chirp go the crickets". Yet you all have NO problem turning honest citizens, who have committed no crime or harmed no one, into criminals because they own firearms.
Piss off.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by chrismarco
 


You beat me to it. This was a riveting story - LAST YEAR! In fact, exactly 1 year tomorrow.

Here's the original thread, from when it actually happened

www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 26-4-2013 by stutteringp0et because: clarification



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


wow.......very clear people have a hard time catching sarcasm

Well... I can VERY CLEARLY detect a great deal sarcasm in that post! LOL I reckon I'm improving...

Considering much of what I read here, on ATS, your sarcasm may not have been near as "clear" as you may have thought. If I had known you better, I may have picked up on that.

Cheers!


See ya,
Milt



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by TinkerHaus

Originally posted by alldaylong
Chap with knife lunges at chap with gun. Gun gets knocked out of gun wielders hand. Knife man picks up gun and starts shooting innocent passers-by instead of knifing them.
Yes you could imagine that happening.


I've also imagined unicorns, leprechauns, and the Easter Bunny riding a velociraptor in a pink hat to hide eggs in my yard.

If you have a guy armed with a knife at gunpoint, and he lunges at you, you shoot him. If your options are defend yourself at the expense of another, or do nothing and potentially suffer severe bodily harm or DEATH, you choose yourself.

You also don't stand two feet away from a guy with a knife while holding him at gunpoint. So yeah, I can see your situation playing out if the guy with the gun was the biggest idiot in the world.

This isn't the movies.


So you think you can't disarm someone with a gun?

www.military.com...

Oh dear. Which movies do you watch?





You also don't stand two feet away from a guy with a knife while holding him at gunpoint. So yeah, I can see your situation playing out if the guy with the gun was the biggest idiot in the world.



In every instance in the video you provided the gunman was holding the gun inches from the defender.

Additionally, that was a dummy gun and not loaded. There is a very real possibility that if you tried that against a loaded gun the firearm would be discharged and you would be shot.

Even further, most people don't have anywhere near the training needed to disarm someone with a gun, even if they were stupid enough to hold it directly to your head.

Once more, I will finish by saying, this ain't the movies.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by TinkerHaus

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by TinkerHaus

Originally posted by alldaylong
Chap with knife lunges at chap with gun. Gun gets knocked out of gun wielders hand. Knife man picks up gun and starts shooting innocent passers-by instead of knifing them.
Yes you could imagine that happening.


I've also imagined unicorns, leprechauns, and the Easter Bunny riding a velociraptor in a pink hat to hide eggs in my yard.

If you have a guy armed with a knife at gunpoint, and he lunges at you, you shoot him. If your options are defend yourself at the expense of another, or do nothing and potentially suffer severe bodily harm or DEATH, you choose yourself.

You also don't stand two feet away from a guy with a knife while holding him at gunpoint. So yeah, I can see your situation playing out if the guy with the gun was the biggest idiot in the world.

This isn't the movies.


So you think you can't disarm someone with a gun?

www.military.com...

Oh dear. Which movies do you watch?





You also don't stand two feet away from a guy with a knife while holding him at gunpoint. So yeah, I can see your situation playing out if the guy with the gun was the biggest idiot in the world.



In every instance in the video you provided the gunman was holding the gun inches from the defender.

Additionally, that was a dummy gun and not loaded. There is a very real possibility that if you tried that against a loaded gun the firearm would be discharged and you would be shot.

Even further, most people don't have anywhere near the training needed to disarm someone with a gun, even if they were stupid enough to hold it directly to your head.

Once more, I will finish by saying, this ain't the movies.


So lets see what we have here.

How do you know how far the gunman will hold the gun away? You only know when it happens.
Do you give the knifeman a questionnaire before you approach him with a gun? Do you ask him for instance "Are you a martial arts expert"? or "Are you ex-military"?




posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by extraterrestrialentity
There would be no way to stop him with a knife. The only way to stop him would be to get close to him, and by then, he would probably kill you. Unless you're some kind martial arts expert like Chuck Norris.


So the guy has 360 vision? He is not only a criminal but he also has ESP and will know where you are at all times.
While he is stabbing or attempting to stab someone, you go behind him and knife him in the back.
Or if there are a few of you, you distract him and then knife him.... or you pick up a can of beans or peas or corned beef and throw it at the guys face.

This isn't about a gun.... it's about bravery and taking on an assailant or aggressor... this time the only guy brave enough was a gun owner, next time... it's a guy who smacks him with a hockey stick.







Nothing is better than a gun. Not only are they powerful, they look scary too. You don't even have to shoot, the criminal will probably just stop right their, just by seeing the gun.




Uh huh.....

If he's running around killing people, you can bet he'll be watching his back. You don't just go somewhere planning to kill people without at least thinking of what would happen if someone would jump on you to stop you.

And most people are scared to face a knife, so it's better to have a gun.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 06:07 PM
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The anti-gun nutters will always use some form of ideal situation to demonstrate how guns aren't needed.

Unfortunately, we live in the real world, and things are very rarely ideal.

To the guy that says someone with a baseball bat or hockey stick could stop him..... uh..... so you suggest carrying a baseball bat or hockey stick with you everywhere you go? A pistol can fit easily inside a pocket or holster, nobody knows you have it, you don't scare anyone, but it's there IF you need it.

Suggesting a catapult.... now your just being dense.

Could a guy with a bat or a knife possibly have stopped this guy? Yes. In an ideal situation.

You say someone with a knife could easily stop him, have you ever been in a knife fight? Seriously, have you? Because I have. and I have the scars and damaged ligaments to prove it. Getting sliced up is terrifying, I've never been shot but honestly I'd prefer being shot over sliced up and stabbed.

Attempting to stop someone with a knife, when all you have is a knife, is a bad idea. You are almost definitely going to get stabbed or sliced, likely many many times. He is also likely to get stabbed and sliced. All that blood flying around, with open wounds, pretty easy way to get some sort of awful disease or infection. Terrible, terrible idea.

A bat would be better, you would have more standoff distance and there is less chance of injuring yourself with your own weapon (I cut down to the bone on my thumb)

The real world isn't like the movies, and that's a fact in SUPPORT of firearm use. That stupid video someone posted on how to disarm someone with a gun is a total joke. A concealed carry person is NOT going to walk up to the guy and put the gun against his head, or put the gun right within arms reach. They would train their sights on the subject, and the second that person does anything other than stop and lay down, they will be shot immediately and repeatedly.

All these people against guns are nothing but sheltered little winy chuck norris wannabes. If you really think you are so tough without a gun, why don't you take a drive to the bad neighborhood in your town (because I know you sure as hell don't live there) and get into trouble with some actually hard people. Show them your awesome catapult skills or bowstaff skills, or whatever ridiculous idea you have to defend yourself.

If someone is threatening your life, or the lives of those around you, overwhelming force is the ticket. If someone comes at you with brass knuckles, go at them with a bat. If they go at you with a bat, go at them with a gun. Once again this isn't the movies, there is no such thing as honor or fairness when it comes to saving your own life against someone needlessly threatening it. You throw 100% of everything you have at your attacker and don't stop until he's laying motionless on the ground. THAT is how you defend yourself, ideal scenarios and rainbows are NOT.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by TinkerHaus

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by TinkerHaus

Originally posted by alldaylong
Chap with knife lunges at chap with gun. Gun gets knocked out of gun wielders hand. Knife man picks up gun and starts shooting innocent passers-by instead of knifing them.
Yes you could imagine that happening.


I've also imagined unicorns, leprechauns, and the Easter Bunny riding a velociraptor in a pink hat to hide eggs in my yard.

If you have a guy armed with a knife at gunpoint, and he lunges at you, you shoot him. If your options are defend yourself at the expense of another, or do nothing and potentially suffer severe bodily harm or DEATH, you choose yourself.

You also don't stand two feet away from a guy with a knife while holding him at gunpoint. So yeah, I can see your situation playing out if the guy with the gun was the biggest idiot in the world.

This isn't the movies.


So you think you can't disarm someone with a gun?

www.military.com...

Oh dear. Which movies do you watch?





You also don't stand two feet away from a guy with a knife while holding him at gunpoint. So yeah, I can see your situation playing out if the guy with the gun was the biggest idiot in the world.



In every instance in the video you provided the gunman was holding the gun inches from the defender.

Additionally, that was a dummy gun and not loaded. There is a very real possibility that if you tried that against a loaded gun the firearm would be discharged and you would be shot.

Even further, most people don't have anywhere near the training needed to disarm someone with a gun, even if they were stupid enough to hold it directly to your head.

Once more, I will finish by saying, this ain't the movies.


So lets see what we have here.

How do you know how far the gunman will hold the gun away? You only know when it happens.
Do you give the knifeman a questionnaire before you approach him with a gun? Do you ask him for instance "Are you a martial arts expert"? or "Are you ex-military"?



Because most of us that carry a firearm have also sought out training. You need to keep some space between yourself and your attacker for exactly the reasons here.

You're silly. Turn off your TV.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 06:31 PM
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Gun nuts cling to every "guns are good" story they can find.

Then they go on and cry about agendas when they have one themselves.

edit on 26-4-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by WaterBottle
Gun nuts cling to every "guns are good" story they can find.

Then they go on and cry about agendas when they have one themselves.

edit on 26-4-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)


Of course they have an agenda, the agenda of making sure our rights, freedoms,and ability to defend ourselves isn't infringed upon. You know, the agenda the country was founded on and all that stuff you probably consider nonsense.

Everyone has an agenda, if they didn't, there would be zero point in doing anything.

I'll side with those who's agenda is to keep me free and able to defend myself.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 08:06 PM
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This one is for all you anti-gun folk! If this doesn't convince you otherwise, nothing will...



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by James1982
 


They aren't needed though, I don't know how anyone can say they are. People are killed all the time by someone wielding a gun, yet when something like this happens you pro-gun "nutters" act like all guns ever do is save people. I suppose this makes up for the thousands upon thousands of murders each year.

It's funny how when someone is killed it's "guns don't kill people, people kill people", yet when something like this happens the gun is the hero. It's both or none, don't pick and choose.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by WaterBottle
Gun nuts cling to every "guns are good" story they can find.

Then they go on and cry about agendas when they have one themselves.

edit on 26-4-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)


What agenda? The gunman (like every OTHER law-abiding gun owner) had no agenda, he simply protected himself, and the innocent.

As opposed to blatantly BAD agendas: like trying to "demonize" the 2nd amendment, and have it wiped off the constitution.
edit on 26-4-2013 by Solarfall because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by Solarfall

Originally posted by WaterBottle
Gun nuts cling to every "guns are good" story they can find.

Then they go on and cry about agendas when they have one themselves.

edit on 26-4-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)


There's nothing wrong with GOOD agendas. As opposed to blatantly BAD agendas: like trying to demonize the 2nd amendment, and having it wiped off the constitution.


How about arguing your point based on what's best for your country rather than being blinded by the constitution? The 2nd amendment shouldn't be the reason you want guns.

And the person you're replying too was obviously talking about your agenda, not the man in the story. It's a shame nice stories are ruined by things like this (perhaps nice is the wrong word, stabbing isn't nice).
edit on 26-4-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 08:27 PM
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Just as long as his gun didn't look scary or have more than 7 rounds in it. This is why I advocate for knife control. I don't want to take away anyone's knife.... I just don't want any knife to have a blade longer than 1/32 of an inch.





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