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posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by hakona
 




4:157-158

that they said (in boast), "we killed christ jesus the son of mary, the messenger of allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

nay, allah raised him up unto himself; and allah is exalted in power, wise;-


It is clear that they didn't kill him
they thought they have killed him

And in the second verse , it is not clear whether he is alive or not. Because raising up could mean he died and his soul was raised up , or he was raised up alive.

According some hadith , Jesus and 12th Imam will return in the end of times.

But Hadith may be not strong as Qur'an.




However, on the other hand this view leaves a big question mark over why it was necessary at all to make the Jews/Romans believe they had crucified him? What was the purpose of this (apparent) crucifixion?


Jesus was alone even among his nearest followers. And one of them betrayed him at last. So people didn't follow him in the first place.

So , they had seen many miracles from him.They saw him as a great teacher. And when they saw him being crucified , it was a great pain for them to see they are losing a great chance like that. Only god knows how great the pain was for them
edit on 27-4-2013 by mideast because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by mideast
 


You haven't answered anything I asked which is pretty typical of you die hard Jesus basher's. Have fun with your "lord" come back when you can prove he exists, until then it's just your religious wet dream....



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 02:21 AM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 





You haven't answered anything I asked


You already knew it all.



which is pretty typical of you die hard Jesus basher's


Just read the pages before to remember who is basher.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 02:22 AM
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So what I always wonder is that since we're always told that Satan is the master of deceit, the king of liars, how do we know that Jesus isn't really Satan in disguise, and that this faux son of god is actually misleading us poor, woe-beggoten mortals.

I can't prove that God, Jesus or Satan don't exist, but can any followers of Jesus prove that he isn't the Devil in disguise, trying to take human kind down the path to Perdition?

We're warned about the Antichrist, but how do we know that this isn't just a carefully laid-out disinformation campaign by Lucifer to make us ignore our real savior and instead follow the words of a minion of Cthulhu or Nyarlathotep or some other such evil Old One, masquerading as the son of God?

Don't you Jesus believers ever wonder about this in the middle of the night?



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 02:27 AM
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reply to post by mideast
 


Do you know what my friend? Ironically this is going to be a "Jesus esque" response which seems hypocritical but it's the truth and I'm going to say it anyway.

I'm quite happy for you to have your beliefs, lots of different people in lots of different places, believe in lots of different things....

If you believe in Jesus, the Lord, Christianity and that makes you happy then who am I to criticize?

The only thing I'll ever ask if that your happy to admit it's your belief, not fact.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 03:09 AM
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reply to post by MrInquisitive
 


There are criterion and logic but delusion mixes every thing.

Satan comes with delusion and shows truth as false , false as truth.

It is your heart which can tell what is true what is false.

But first bring a healthy heart , then ask me why it isn't filled with faith.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 06:31 AM
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I think it's great to have debates and discussions on the subject of theology and all that it implies. However, it's just silly to argue over the existence or non-existence of God or Jesus. Why not let people believe what they want to believe?

I get a kick out of the supposed 'scientifically' hip people who scold Christians as ignorant buffoons. A true scientist will readily acknowledge that an intelligent designer (ie: God) may indeed exist. As could Jesus.
Real scientists are open-minded. Stating that a thing doesn't exist because it hasn't been 'scientifically proven' is 20-years-old thinking. It's squaresville.

The surly attitudes, the sheer haughtiness of these "scientific" people is hilarious.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 07:01 AM
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reply to post by ColeYounger
 


Sure , because they see they are at best , a good discoverer and good user of rules.

A modest scientists never says "I invented or created 2*2=4" but he may say "I discovered the rule that existed even before I discover it".

I do agree with what you say and I really doubt we have modest scientists these days , I see many business people instead of many scientists.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by mideast
Peace and salam to ATS members

recently I have seen threads commenting with little logic and common sense about Jesus pbuh.

I want to state some facts an begin the discussion based on these facts.

1- Jesus was a prophet and messenger of god. And god chose him because he know that Jesus pbuh is trustworthy and not treacherous in teaching and guiding people. God knew that he won't add his own comment to the message he is receiving from god for god is all knowing.

2-He leanred the truth and accepted to teach people. He was not ignorant and he was facing many pains because of ignorant people on one side , cruel and greedy and stubborn Jews on the other side , were making him suffer.

3- He taught human beings. He is a prophet and messenger for Christians and his precious words have been taught in many Islamic Hadith

So he was a trustworthy messenger and he was not asking any price for doing his job. He stood many pains to convey the message from god and to help us live better lives. And he was really alone in his mission

And I am starting this thread to tell other members how much I love him and I love to hear other members express their opinions about him.

I hope love and light light all hate and ignorance.

peace.
edit on 26-4-2013 by mideast because: (no reason given)


Jesus is a Paradise Son creator of this Universe, he is the Sovereign of this Universe you have been deceived and kept in darkness. He is the one that has brought us back to the beginning, the foundations of the world with his book where the end shall be, You have been lied to, some one has short changed you.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 07:57 AM
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@ sevens8 -"Jesus is a Paradise Son creator of this Universe, he is the Sovereign of this Universe you have been deceived and kept in darkness. He is the one that has brought us back to the beginning, the foundations of the world with his book where the end shall be, You have been lied to, some one has short changed you.

Proof please?
edit on 27/4/13 by Death_Kron because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 08:02 AM
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reply to post by mideast
 


The thing I find so impressive about Jesus is that, if I were to sum it all up, he was total, pure goodness. Everywhere he went, he brought that goodness. He healed sick people, he consoled troubled people. he preached the most profound, yet simple wisdom. Love your neighbor. Help your fellow man. Lead a good life. Don't be selfish and greedy and prideful
and arrogant. Be like little children.

“But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

No one has ever spoken like that, before or after him. No one.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Have you ever told a muslim not to murder ? Have you applied your moral values to yourself also . Still no matter what you want to believe Gods game is on , it's the only game , and you will play . Make what you want of it .



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 


I'm not sure where you're going with the whole Muslim thing. Christians were the Muslims of today back in the middle ages. They killed tons of people in the name of your god. If life is just a game to your god, I don't want to be a part of it.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by mideast
 


I agree with you, but the history is the history, and that means that an ancient people tried their hardest to writ down history. In that sense much of it came from before them, Abraham came, Moses came, Jesus came, Muhammad came, and others came.

A difference between anything? No.

Jesus was killed collectively by his people, and today his people still don't believe in him.

Coming from an outsider looking in - there is no difference, the only established reality is that important people came upon the earth and were remembered in history. I am cautious in what to believe in but don't reject historical accounts.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 12:58 PM
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The bible is bollocks, just a story book. That was made apparent longgggg ago



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 01:26 PM
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You tink you know god, But god could be real.
Some say its Jesus right, But no one knows, Sure in his past an angel was sent from heaven witch means our sky
Then made a woman virgin Mary a baby with out having sex, What if the Man master baited found a way to pregnant the woman Mary to make his son a God.

Some say its a the Anunnaki (also transcribed as: Anunna, Anunnaku, Ananaki and other variations) are a group of deities in ancient Mesopotamian cultures.

Love God Its Always Good to Trust in Something \

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Matthew 22:36-38 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with ALL thy heart, and with ALL thy soul, and with ALL thy mind. THIS is the first and great commandment.

If its all true these will happen

We deserve the death penalty. This includes both physical death (the casket) and spiritual death (when the soul is cast into hellfire).

Friend, you have a choice to make,
keep on pursuing Satan and the fleeting pleasures of sin; or,
humble yourself under the mighty hand of God and let him lift you up into an upright life. God will give you at least one spiritual gift and you can help further the kingdom of God with power from above. In due time, He will lift you up to places you never even knew existed.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by mideast
 


Math is indeed fact in a different sense. The skyscrapers around you and the computer your using. Every system, every mechanism would fall apart and cease to function if there wasn't a constant element involved. Look at math as a translation of nature into a measurement. 1 + 1 = 2 does not exist, but 1 brick + 1 brick = 2 bricks. You can translate that into any language and is irrefutable. Your house is built on facts and would probably stand the test of time if it wasn't for the weather element of nature.

If ten of my friend all went outside and measured my mailbox of 16in., without the fact that 1in x 16 equals 16in., they would all come back with different measurements.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by micmerci

Originally posted by ThisToiletEarth
Nothing in this post can be scientifically proven.

Is there any taped conversations of these talks between God and Jesus? Phone records? Text messages?


Can you provide phone records, texts between Plato and Socrates? Oh, there are none? Guess we just have to rely on the written words concerning them, huh?


Off Plato and Socrates we have written records made themselves.

They also never proclaimed to be capable of walking on water,feeding 5000 men with a loaf of bread and a fish, raise from the dead ,be sent her by god as his direct son, leave a doctrine and a bible to be followed

Just a few of the slight differences to be pointed out in that bad analogy you made.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by mideast
 
Yeah, I'm tight with the J-man, too. Way to go, promoting a positive image of Islam. 'Specially after the Coty Beavers thread. Islam needs more like you and less 'honor killers'.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by hakona
 


Hakona I don't understand why you feel you have to berate what I tried to answer. Your explanations are wonderful and detailed. I kept my answer simple for the fact that the question was posed from a viewpoint of not understanding what was happening. When you are teaching math to first graders you don't start with algebra.
All the best to you.





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