Intolerance versus tolerance

For anyone who has read my threads and posts they will know that I am Christian preacher (on the weekends), who speaks to gay Hispanics. My message is as simple as it gets, "what are you doing right and who have you failed to forgive". I am not an easy preacher, I expect forgiveness and love from our parishioners. There is only one unforgivable sin and it is the rejection of the holy spirit, which is the love for all and forgiveness of all. Government contracts are meaningless to me as is government sanctioned marriage. Marriage is a soul commitment, not a government sanctioned contract. I can easily annoy both fundamentalists and non-believers.

Recently, I went to the local Trader Joes and a LGBT person stopped me on the way out to ask me to sign a petition to deny the Boy Scouts tax exemptions for denying gays entrance. Well, right off the bat I had a problem with what I was being told as the Boy Scouts are now allowing gays in as Boy Scouts; but, not leaders. I told the person that even though I had a primarilly gay congregation, I am not in favor of punishing people for having organizations that discriminate, I am okay with organizations that are not for profit fall under the right to assembly. I am absolutely not a Mason or an Satanist; but, if they organize as a non-profit, I am okay with it. I do not think Satanists should have to accept Christians and tell them all their secrets.

Anyways, I told the person that I didn't agree with playing the tax card to get groups to accept people inside their organizations. The person told me that there was "no rationality" behind my beliefs. I am not convinced that homosexuality is good; but, I am convinced that there are loving and decent homosexuals. God can love everyone, he can love killers, rapists, homosexuals, adulterers, drunks, anyone. It is not for me to say who God can love, he can love anyone he wants. The rejection of love for others is the unforgivable sin, it is the love of only one's self.

I have read from some Atheists who say all the bad in the world is because of religion. They are as dumb as the people they accuse of being wrong. It is not religion, it is intolerance that is the enemy.

What is the connection between being gay and not being able to join the boy scouts (member or leader, whatever)?
To me, that is a case of discrimination - it is not necessary for a boy scout to be "straight", right?

It has nothing to do with being a boy scout if you are gay or not.

It is not some kind of sex-club with only male/female-pairings.

reply to post by AQuestion


It is my belief that to label someone as 'dumb' or 'wrong' or 'something you don't believe is right or support' is the pure definition of intolerance.

Then to define the 'one ultimate sin' to be intolerance and unloving of all people comes off to be quite a contradiction in your philosophy and/or rant if you ask me.

It's ok that your confused about your own beliefs... I still love you all the same.

I'd just like to understand this a bit better, because currently it's unknown whether you accept the homosexuality of your congregation or whether you are an ex-gay preacher who tries to scare gay people out of being proudly gay.

That is: is your attitude to the Boy Scouts the same as the fundamentalist Mormon group who've run it now for quite a while, or are you actually a pro-gay preacher that usually encourages self-acceptance except when it comes to the Boy Scouts?

Originally posted by ManFromEurope
What is the connection between being gay and not being able to join the boy scouts (member or leader, whatever)?
To me, that is a case of discrimination - it is not necessary for a boy scout to be "straight", right?

It has nothing to do with being a boy scout if you are gay or not.

It is not some kind of sex-club with only male/female-pairings.

The reason is probably this: if the local scout leader was gay, I would not allow my children to attend that group, no way, absolutely not! And I would bet against every thing you have that most other parents wouldn't either. It is ok to be "accepting", "broad minded" "tolerant", "politically correct" and all that in public because you have to, but when it comes to protecting your children, that is another thing.

The gay agenda may have won the politics but they have not won the hearts and minds of the majority, and there is nothing they can do about that. They can go ahead and demand that the scouts allow gay leaders and destroy a great American tradition and institution, and they probably will, but it wont change the majority's minds about gay men in close contact with children.

reply to post by Cinrad

Well, I hope your prejudice actually manages to keep pedophiles away from children.

Unlike gays they don't openly announce themselves, and homophobic religious institutions are rife with them.

reply to post by AQuestion


I don't see how people can pin all the problems in the world on religion. It takes the action of Men to achieve all the results we come up with. But there are also some things that we are not responsible for and we can never take responsibility for their existence also. They are usually the most beautiful things btw.

Made by God



Made by Man



Made by God



Made by Man



Don't get the two mixed up.. We are responsible for the problems on this planet, not the creator.

reply to post by DarknStormy

Where is the evidence that God created a waterfall or eagle, but that He didn't create a bombed out city or African children?

Why are black African children less beautiful than an eagle?

Surely the hope and beauty of human life is above any other miracle.

But perhaps the point is that God created nature without need, while poverty is man made?

Well those are nice pics of nature, but nature is also red in tooth and claw.

Religions had wars and genocides, where God was quite unforgiving, as in the Old Testament.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

Where is the evidence that God created a waterfall or eagle, but that He didn't create a bombed out city or African children?

Man creates buildings and also blows them up. Man didn't create the Earth and nature.

Why are black African children less beautiful than an eagle?

They aren't, I was pointing out starvation is man made.

Surely the hope and beauty of human life is above any other miracle.

When we treat each other the way we do we deserve everything we ask for.

But perhaps the point is that God created nature without need, while poverty is man made?

Thats a great answer

Well those are nice pics of nature, but nature is also red in tooth and claw.

Religions had wars and genocides, where God was quite unforgiving, as in the Old Testament.

Iraq are going through a Genocide right now yet we think we are above religion? What was so religious about the USA's invasion of Iraq?

reply to post by DarknStormy

What was so religious about the USA's invasion of Iraq?

Oil isn't a religion for the elite?

Get outa here...

Originally posted by Akragon

Oil isn't a religion for the elite?

Get outa here...

Good point....

reply to post by DarknStormy

Well fair enough, I was just checking.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

Well fair enough, I was just checking.

Maybe I should of used another picture but I have no disrespect for kids who are doing tougher than most others. The point is man has created this problem and man should be fixing it. Not Popes going to Africa and telling them that god will bless them in the afterlife

reply to post by AQuestion

It is not religion, it is intolerance that is the enemy.

I'd agree...but you also have to concede that religion is certainly a powerful tool for breeding intolerance, no? It provides a justification for such, and validates it, in members' minds.

It is good to see one (yourself) using it in reverse (to breed tolerance).

I'm all for tolerance, but draw the line at special rights. Same rights? Sure. Special ones? No.

This is one of the major arguing point between me an my husband. We were raised from very different backgrounds. His - very uptight Christian upbringing. Me - free. I was raised with no religion and when I asked, I was told to go to the library and figure it out. With the message my mom sent me out with, "Organized religion promotes and controls through fear. That's not god." But in that, I grew up tolerant to things like homosexuality because I was taught - live and let live.

So I have two boys who will not be joining boy scouts ever. I asked why.

He's like here the thing , wife. "This could happen anywhere. But lets say our boys are friends with a child raised in a homo-sexual household and has two dads. Perhaps that child, peeking through the door, see's something he's not suppose to. How do I stop my children from being exposed to a child that say's to them, "Want to see what I saw my daddy doing to my other daddy?" And then proceeds to show them by doing? It can become a learned behavior, and I don't agree with it."

How do you argue with that reasoning? Particularly me, as my best friend is gay. What I've found is I have to respect my husbands views, but that doesn't mean I can't accept my friend as he is. As he was born. I just have to respect that my husband doesn't want our children exposed to it - until they are old enough to understand who they are.

Blessings,
Cirque

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by Cinrad

 

Well, I hope your prejudice actually manages to keep pedophiles away from children.

Unlike gays they don't openly announce themselves, and homophobic religious institutions are rife with them.

Are you suggesting I am an idiot? That I didn't know that already? That I thought my kids would be safe from paedophiles as long as I keep them away from gay men? That that is all I had to do? You are so arrogant.

Originally posted by ttobban
reply to post by AQuestion

 

It is my belief that to label someone as 'dumb' or 'wrong' or 'something you don't believe is right or support' is the pure definition of intolerance.

Then to define the 'one ultimate sin' to be intolerance and unloving of all people comes off to be quite a contradiction in your philosophy and/or rant if you ask me.

It's ok that your confused about your own beliefs... I still love you all the same.

edit on 26-4-2013 by ttobban because: (no reason given)

Dear ttobban,

Intolerance implies controlling others, not disagreeing with them. Accepting everything is not tolerance. Your logic is faulty. He sought to control others. Some things are dumb and wrong. His approach was wrong and he could have been much more effective if it had been right.

reply to post by DarknStormy


Dear DarknStormy,

I would never blame God for our problems, I do blame others and those who know better.

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by AQuestion

 

It is not religion, it is intolerance that is the enemy.

I'd agree...but you also have to concede that religion is certainly a powerful tool for breeding intolerance, no? It provides a justification for such, and validates it, in members' minds.

It is good to see one (yourself) using it in reverse (to breed tolerance).

I'm all for tolerance, but draw the line at special rights. Same rights? Sure. Special ones? No.

Dear Gazrock,

Everything is used to breed intolerance. The most dangerous people in the world are the ones who seek to control us because they know what is best. If I take away a right from you then I am justifying taking away a right from me. I am also against special rights, that is not tolerance either, it is preference. I would not call myself a libertarian; but, I certainly agree with many of it's beliefs. At the same time I recognize that we succeed or fail as a group and have to care for one another.

reply to post by AQuestion

I have read from some Atheists who say all the bad in the world is because of religion. They are as dumb as the people they accuse of being wrong. It is not religion, it is intolerance that is the enemy.

Sure, sure, we the intolerant of religion are the problem. We should tolerate the Catholic church as it frowns on condoms in Africa and, in doing so, helps to spread AIDS throughout the entire continent. We should tolerate the church when it claims that birth control for poor people is a bad thing, thereby creating more and more unwanted babies that these people can't afford.

We should tolerate Islamic terrorism because we don't see other Muslims taking up arms to put down those that use this religion to spread hatred, oppression and death. If they can tolerate it, so should we.

Yep, it's all our intolerant fault.