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Outcry erupts over 1% pay raise proposed for military

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posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 05:56 PM
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Military cuts aren't a bad idea. Military Research and Development alone has profits into the 10's of billions PER major defense contractor. These are profit levels some Big Oil or big Pharma companies would kill for ...and yet where do the cuts actually land? Right on the heads of the men and women who actually serve in the ranks of the military itself.

Why not cut the endless cost overruns for projects that may or may not even see end stage production ..and if it does, will likely suffer more cycle after cycle of failures and redesigns or major refits to fix what shouldn't have been broken in the first place?

This isn't a small business where everything can be said to be run to tight margins and thin profits to begin with so, rightly asked, where is left to cut BUT worker pay? The Military wastes money like it's free. I think that is what makes sticking to the troops this way particularly reprehensible. If all need to take a hit then lets make sure all actually are...not just the little people.

edit on 26-4-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by Swills
I joined the USN in January 2001 because I wanted to travel the world & for the GI Bill, so believe it or not, many "suckers" today join for the same reason. I wasn't tricked & never were they.


I said they are either tricked or are knowingly acting as mercenaries. You personally are admitting to enlisting for personal gain and didn't mention any noble causes. Therefore, all I see are people joining a war machine (willingly) and my taxes are paying for them. Why would I care if their incentive to enlist is lessened?

As the great Niko Bellic once said "War is where the old and bitter trick the young and stupid into killing each other".


- PS EDIT - Look, I want to make sure that you understand that I don't want our troops punished when it comes to cuts. I think active soldiers should continue to get what they are promised. It is the future enlistees that I am concerned about. With no known noble cause to join for, they are joining because they mostly feel they have to. Why do you think they target certain demographics? Because they know who will fall prey to promises of a cheap education. Eventually, I think our foreign policy will get horrendous enough that no amount of personal gain will make a kid want to kill for it.
edit on 26-4-2013 by Cuervo because: ps edit



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by Swills
reply to post by sirhumperdink
 


Cite sources? Seriously? Every place I've ever worked gave a pay raise each January. I'm sorry to hear this is foreign to you.

Google is your friend tho, usatoday30.usatoday.com...
edit on 26-4-2013 by Swills because: (no reason given)


see the problem with averages is that a few large numbers can skew the results
so if 1/4 of the work force gets a 10% raise and 3/4 get nothing you still have an average increase of 2.5% (and it skews it even further if the raises are given to workers already making more than most)

i can assure you that most businesses do not give a raise every year
(it doesnt even make sense..... unless most companies are growing at an incredible rate it would be absolutely impossible to increase the pay of all or most of their employees every year..... and if youll notice the article you cited specifies "merit based pay" and seems to be speakings specifically of salary based jobs now .......im sure you can understand that what merits a pay increase may not in fact be dependent on productivity but rather anyone the employer has decided to give a raise to and im sure that you can understand that a large portion of the country does not receive a salary but instead receives a wage)

so essentially the article you cited can in no way be used to claim that "most" companies give their emplyees a raise each year
edit on 26-4-2013 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by Cuervo
Nobody who's joined since the Bush administration joins to "serve their country". Nobody is that out of touch to think that we are actually doing that with our military.


Nobody? You interviewed all the recruits to find their motives? This alone shows the agenda you are pushing. We get it, you despise the military; and many here do, but you are disparaging people because you hold that belief. What a joke.


They go because the benefits sucker poor kids into enlisting because they have very few alternatives. Don't you thing that's intentional? Why do you think we are the only 1st-world nation without free or mostly free higher education? Because we wouldn't get anybody to shoot other people for us if we did that!


Poor kids? Manpower demographics completely state otherwise; but what ever fits your view. I am not disparaging and it is quite evident you have a bone to pick.

Also given the amount of debt and the likelihood that institutions such as Fannie-Mae will never see their unfunded loans be repaid, I would say that many of Americans received a free-education.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Why not cut the endless cost overruns for projects that may or may not even see end stage production ..and if it does, will likely suffer more cycle after cycle of failures and redesigns or major refits to fix what shouldn't have been broken in the first place?


Those are sound questions that can be applied to every other Executive level department who has been forced to provide the deepest pain possible; all for political gain. The FAA obviously had money it could move around (hence the vote today), and I would guess all the other agencies do too.

It is a game. The Department of Defense is in on it too. Hit the most public sector of that agency and wait for the People to decry it in hopes of getting more taxes out of people without actually effecting any change.

At least with today's vote on the FAA, it is just "authorization" to move money around and shows that if Congress was up to the task, they could start going line by line and axing unnecessary programs to save money.

But that isn't the goal and many know that.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 08:35 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


I joined because I felt it was my personal duty. No personal gain (if you think are going to get rich as enlisted you are either stupid or being duped). It is the joy of an all volunteer force. We choose; not the Government or State. Personally it was the greatest thing I ever did. But I guess I just don't have all my screws tightened as per your observation.

You are allowing your jaded (and not so wrong view of the world) emotions paint an entire demographic as insane megalomaniacs out to get blood. Are there some? Absolutely and that has been proven since the dawn of Man. Are there some who want to experience the military life? Yep. Its benefits? Yep. Its opportunities? Absolutely.

The point is, there are so many varying reasons why someone volunteers to join up; you just find it easier to sum it up as poor kids being suckered into some life. Too bad the vast majority come from middle and upper middle class backgrounds with plenty of other avenues to choose from.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by Swills
I joined the USN in January 2001 because I wanted to travel the world & for the GI Bill, so believe it or not, many "suckers" today join for the same reason. I wasn't tricked & never were they.


I said they are either tricked or are knowingly acting as mercenaries. You personally are admitting to enlisting for personal gain and didn't mention any noble causes. Therefore, all I see are people joining a war machine (willingly) and my taxes are paying for them. Why would I care if their incentive to enlist is lessened?

As the great Niko Bellic once said "War is where the old and bitter trick the young and stupid into killing each other".


- PS EDIT - Look, I want to make sure that you understand that I don't want our troops punished when it comes to cuts. I think active soldiers should continue to get what they are promised. It is the future enlistees that I am concerned about. With no known noble cause to join for, they are joining because they mostly feel they have to. Why do you think they target certain demographics? Because they know who will fall prey to promises of a cheap education. Eventually, I think our foreign policy will get horrendous enough that no amount of personal gain will make a kid want to kill for it.
edit on 26-4-2013 by Cuervo because: ps edit


Good thing you made that edit because you don't come off well, even after the edit. You are trying to paint me as either a) someone who was tricked into the military or b) a mercenary. Then you put me down because I didn't join the military for some noble cause. What noble cause would you be speaking of because this all sounds very ignorant. To accuse someone of doing something for selfish reasons like its a bad thing is down right laughable. I could argue with you but I'll just leave it at that.

So I get you're upset with all the wars/conflicts America's been involved in and the money that is spent on it but guess what, you're not the only who is, the people who are in Afghanistan want out, asap! In fact, I'm reading suicides are rising at an alarming rate amongst the ranks and suicide bombers aren't giving up. Ron Paul had the most support of any candidate this past election cycle and he promised to end all conflicts, bring all the troops home, amongst other things.

Like I said, you're not the only sick of the wars, or at least spending money on them.
edit on 26-4-2013 by Swills because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by sirhumperdink
 


I'm not going to pretend I know how every business runs and what they pay but from my experience and the people in my life that is the norm. Sure, dead end jobs probably don't give raises much, I dunno, but business that want to keep people with them for the long haul sure do give a small increase each year.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by ownbestenemy
 


Let's not forget about the small fortune many, many people owe back to the Gov't for their degrees and having no jobs to pay them. Did you know student load debt is the only debt you can't not pay back? Bankruptcy don't mean spit to this govt loan. Last I read the college loan bubble is fast out pacing the credit card debt bubble, which is an amazing feat in itself. And with the economy getting worse the military would be a fantastic choice but our leaders ruin it for everybody with fail war after fail conflict after unjust war and then unjust drone strike. It never ends and is only getting worse.
edit on 26-4-2013 by Swills because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
At a time when many employees are taking pay cuts in lieu of layoffs, or have had frozen raises for years, yeah, it is a bit of a slap in the face to realize ANY kind of raise being given to those paid by taxpayers. Not going to find too much public support for this.

In response to the above, in this kind of economy, the military is certainly a smart idea... Guaranteed employment, full benefits, housing, college, etc., and great on the job training. I find it difficult to not recommend this option for someone trying to decide where to go.
edit on 26-4-2013 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)


Great post and I couldn't agree more. That said, it's a crying shame we have these so called leaders, a good many who never served, who are unfortunately in charge of this force.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by Swills
 


Public student loans are a bane in my opinion. First, they bloat the cost of higher education by diluting the market with 'easy money'. Second, you can get that loan without even having a real goal in mind. If I ran a college, I would be doing exactly what the colleges around the nation are doing; raising costs and accepting beyond capacity.

Vicious circle? Probably, but one created by a massive influx of no questioned asked loans to people. Sounds similar to a recent bubble that popped about 5 years ago....and on that note...about 15 years ago.....or maybe 30 years ago.....

Common factor? Government forced money into a free-market place artificially increasing the demand.




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