The Orion Connection: Can we Deny it?

reply to post by Harte


The city may have been founded by a Greek, but it sits squarely in Egypt.
During Eratosthenes' time, it was the Capitol of Ptolemaic Egypt. Ruled by Pharoah.

Arguing just for the sake of it?

I mean, by that reasoning, I suppose Baton Rouge Louisiana still belongs to the French, right?

reply to post by JayinAR


I'm afraid you're looking at it wrong. Let me try to explain since I've seen this for myself having literally lived all around the world.

Simply because someone is born in an area and raised there, lived there, does not mean that they are part of what culture is there, especially if most of that culture is dead and buried during their time.

Saying that he was influenced and learned everything he knew from the ancient egyptians from over 2,000 years before his time, is like me saying that: if you were born and raised in the United States, it means you gained all your knowledge from Native Americans.

As you can see, that's not exactly true.

Hispanic people from Mexico are not just like the Aztecs.

Muslims invaded and occupied Spain for quite a while, but Spanish people are not mostly muslim.

It's like saying Albert Einstein's theory of relativity came from the Romans because at one time his place of origin was occupied and influenced by the Romans.

Alexandria and it's library was suppose to be a culmination of information from the existing known world at that time. However......that library was lost.

So you can't claim he got the idea and theories from the Egyptians and say it's a fact. You can't with what evidence there is right now.

Instead, you'll need to prove that the ancient egyptians did know the shape and size of the world back then, and that information was then recorded and available to others down the road.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by Byrd

 

Also, latitude they probably had figured, considering they knew the size of the Earth. Longitude is what they would have had trouble with.

They didn't know the size of the Earth. That's pretty clear from all their writings. They believed the Earth was a flat-ish landscape and that the sun sailed across the sky each day and then had to battle its way through the darkness below the Earth to rise the next day.

Now, this changed with Eratosthenes ...but that was 2,000 years or so after the pyramids were built.

Saying that he was influenced and learned everything he knew from the ancient egyptians from over 2,000 years before his time, is like me saying that: if you were born and raised in the United States, it means you gained all your knowledge from Native Americans.

reply to post by eriktheawful


Now hold on, slick. I didnt say any of those things, did I?
What I DID say was that he lived, worked, was born (this was actually incorrect as he was born in present day Syria) and died in Egypt. This is fact. Also, there is debate over which stadia he used in his measurements to achieve his results, but if accounting for standard Egyptian systems his results were accurate to 2 percent. Also, he did in fact use Egyptian land surveys for his measurements, some of which he helped create.

Not once did I say that the knowledge was 2,000 years old. I have already conceded that point twice and you are the only person bringing it up...for a third time now.

However, as I have also pointed out above, Alexandria was ruled by Pharoah during his time. It was NOT a Greek city.

Originally posted by CrypticSouthpaw
reply to post by Harte

 

Well im saying that because of the physics our planets and sun has ( How much weight is pulled to the center slingshot out of orbit or is vaporized) Anything not caught in the orbit inbetween jupiter and mars would just go spiralling into the sun.

This was said to happen 10,000 + years ago. That would be plenty of time to change our nights sky and clear enough matter.

The problem with this is that there ARE astronomical recordings of events in the sky (on rock art... the Chumash and the Chinese are two cultures that recorded supernovas) and there's no such recording of some sky catastrophe 10,000 years ago. There's also no physical evidence -- debris from a collision would take a long time to settle down into a stable and mostly circular orbit.

The question still remains tho, Where did all the water come from? Because it did not exist on this planet before, Its quite impossible. As there has been settlements found deeply submerged in water.

We have rocks that show tides of ancient seas that are 3 billion years old. When I was working on the Alamosaurus (dinosaur) two years ago, I found in the cavities of her neckbones a record of annual floods (bands of sediment caused by floods) that took place over 60,000 years ago.

As for the pole shift there was known to be one just before or during the last ice age which was estimated 10,000-100,000+ some years ago

I believe you've dropped a few zeroes. The last magnetic reversal took place in the middle Pliocene, two million years ago and the margin of error is 10,000 years.

reply to post by JayinAR


Okay, I'll ease off on ya as I thought you were still implicating that he got his knowledge from the ancient egyptians (meaning from over 2000 years before).

Fact is, by the time Tut was in charge, the pyramids were considered an ancient wonder and little was known about them by those "newer" egyptians.

Point is: knowledge back then was easily lost, when your own recording devices were rocks, clay tablets and some scrolls. Invading armies, disasters, etc, tended to wipe away accumulated knowledge.

My other point was: the library at Alexandria held knowledge that had been gathered from everywhere, not just Egypt. And Eratosthenes WAS Greek, living in a Ptolemaic Kingdom.

Ptolemaic Egypt was not like Ancient Egypt. They took on and adapted customs as the people of the area had done in Ancient Egypt. They were no more Egyptians than I am:

The Ptolemaic Kingdom was founded in 305 BC by Ptolemy I Soter, who declared himself Pharaoh of Egypt and created a powerful Hellenistic dynasty that ruled an area stretching from southern Syria to Cyrene and south to Nubia. Alexandria became the capital city and a center of Greek culture and trade. To gain recognition by the native Egyptian populace, they named themselves the successors to the Pharaohs. The later Ptolemies took on Egyptian traditions by marrying their siblings, had themselves portrayed on public monuments in Egyptian style and dress, and participated in Egyptian religious life. The Ptolemies had to fight native rebellions and were involved in foreign and civil wars that led to the decline of the kingdom and its annexation by Rome. Hellenistic culture continued to thrive in Egypt throughout the Roman and Byzantine periods until the Muslim conquest.

Ptolemaic Egypt

I was just arguing that you can't say the Egyptians figured out the size of the world....because of a Greek Scholar that lived there and became one of the librarians of the Great Library there, discovered it, while under Ptolemaic rule.

It's sort of like saying Native Americans discovered Pluto......because Clyde Tombaugh was born and raised in the USA.

That's all I'm saying.

Sorry for being a stickler for detail.

reply to post by eriktheawful


And personally I feel a more apt analogy would be like saying hat Alternating Current was a Croatian development although Nikola Tesla lived and worked in America (another empire that is your melting pot, mish mash of cultural influences)

In reality, it was American resources that allowed it to be developed and why scientists used to flock here.Much the same way Alexandria was the capitol of he world for them...Egyptian. Not Greek.

And I apologize for seeming argumentive. I made an incorrect statement and rescended my remarks, thanking the person who showed me my error. No need to get dragged through the mud for it. So I am clinging to the half a valid point I had. Haha
It was an Egyptian discovery. And that is all I will say on that as I feel like we are derailing at this point.

Apologies OP.

reply to post by JayinAR


Not a problem my friend...

I've been enjoying the discussion this thread has caused in any case

reply to post by JayinAR


Egypt is a very old country - older than many people think.

Egyptians were great engineers, builders, and artisans. This society had a lot of science, something that we marvel at today.

It was a society of 'brown' people. A distinct people who were non-Arab, non-White and non-Black.

However misfortune struck this nation and it was conquered by foreigners. This nation has not known peace since. The people have become mixed - with genes from races less developed than Egyptians themselves. The knowledge, and more important, the capacity to absorb scientific knowledge, has been lost.

Purer Egyptian genes are now to be found in India rather than Egypt. It is a matter of research but I believe Agarwal community in India has ancient Egyptian lineage on the male side.

Egyptian traders were present in ancient India at the time of Mahabharat war. The trade between Egypt and India is so old.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by Harte

 

The city may have been founded by a Greek, but it sits squarely in Egypt.
During Eratosthenes' time, it was the Capitol of Ptolemaic Egypt. Ruled by Pharoah.

Arguing just for the sake of it?

A Greek Pharoah.

Harte

Ok! I am new to all of this but recently I have been messing with a new app for mars , and I was looking at the volcanoes and see a very disturbingly exciting sight! The volcanos and the pyramids of Giza the three kings of Egypt and it is a very similar sight ! I know that the kings made the pyramids to mimic the stars of Orion's Belt But it was a very interesting sight when I saw this! Does anybody have a theory or scientific explanation?

According to John Anthony West the pyramids in Egypt are much, much older than we think. And probably the Egyptians were just as confused about who built them as we are.

Author, lecturer and guide, John Anthony West delivered a seismic shock to archaeology in the early 1990's when he and Boston University geologist Robert Schoch revealed that the Great Sphinx of Giza, Egypt, showed evidence of rainfall erosion. Such erosion could only mean that the Sphinx was carved during or before the rains that marked the transition of northern Africa from the last Ice Age to the present interglacial epoch, a transition that occurred in the millennia from 10,000 to 5000 BC.

Wow, very interesting! I like this kind of thing. I wonder...if we can extrapolate all the sites from around the world, plot them on a globe, 3D interface and the plot a line through, would we see anything? just curious, it may not be anything at all.

reply to post by Akragon

Has anyone considered that ancient people mimicked Orion because it is a very prominent constellation? When I look up, my eye is immediately drawn to it. Three stars in a line(almost). Kinda looks like a hominid.

Has that ever been an argument against this theory?

-kmb08753

reply to post by kmb08753


Probably somewhere in this thread... there's been a lot of arguments, disagreements... It happens

Perhaps its just a coincidence all these cultures point to the same place

Then again, maybe its not

Welcome to the forum btw

Originally posted by kmb08753
reply to post by Akragon

 

Has anyone considered that ancient people mimicked Orion because it is a very prominent constellation? When I look up, my eye is immediately drawn to it. Three stars in a line(almost). Kinda looks like a hominid.

Has that ever been an argument against this theory?

-kmb08753

You bet.

But it shows you have the ability to think critically. Good work!

Such a one is extra welcome here, in my eyes.

Harte

reply to post by kmb08753


People looked up, stars everywhere, but all interpreted order out of the same constellation, because it does look orderly...and bright. Brighter than the dimwits who think aliens are needed to plot 3 points to look like it. A preschooler could do it with a crayon.

Well, humans have come from other worlds to this planet; and travelled to other worlds from this planet.

Has happened and will happen.

This alone is the reason humans must look for universal values and appreciate the magnitude of the force (what we call God) that created and sustains this Universe.

People have developed the technological base and then lost the knowledge repeatedly on this planet due to wars or other human follies.

It became so bad that Vedic sages stopped teaching science to the society for fear of misuse. However Vedic society still had moral values. Now we have a society with advanced science and no moral values. How can this society survive? It is like putting huge fireworks in the hands of immature children.