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A country divided is a healthy nation

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posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 03:39 AM
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All through this recent election, and even more so since, America has been described as divided, polarised, and at war with itself. The newscasters, the pundits and the people look at the deep divisions in this country and its peoples views and they fear. I look at the deep divisions and see a country that is strong not in spite of, but because of its divisions. On the so called wedge issues such as Gay marriage, abortion, the war in Iraq, the differences between the left and right are vast, and this is as it should be. It is the conflct between those who believe that gay marriage should be banned and those who believe it should be available to all which make this country strong, just as the debates over abortion, taxes, and the war make this country strong. The more divided we are the more united we stand. It is because of the deep divisions in this countries peoples that issues such as gay marriage will be debated more fiercly than ever before, it is because of the conflict between Pro-lifers and pro-choicers that we are strong. In our conflict lies our strength. In our strength rests the future of mankind.




posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
In our strength rests the future of mankind.


Sorry but that last statement is a joke. If that were true(which it is not), then the human race is doomed.



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 04:05 AM
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Now that we have had the mandatory comment from the anti-US contingant would anyone like to discuss this seriously?



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 04:13 AM
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Now that we have had the mandatory comment from the anti-US contingant would anyone like to discuss this seriously?




please MWM take into consider the gross neglagence of our policies, and realize great things are accomplished while unified. do you think the egyptians where bickering over whether or not they should be allowed to cook camal soup while constructing the pyramids?

divided we fall



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 04:23 AM
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Great things are accomplished when unified but great Ideas are born of division. It is the interaction of the far left and the far right which allows the middle to move us forward. In our division we are challegened to examine our deeply held beliefs and consciously choose whteher to maintain or discard them. If not for the Gay marrage bans in 11 states do you honestly think the average rural american would ever consider what type of discrimination gays face, or whether a gay man can love his husband as much as a straight man loves his wife?
If not for the conflict between the pro life and pro choice camps how much debate would there be on contraceptives, adoption, or the burden of single mothers in churches?
It is becuse of our divisions that we are forced to defend one position or another and in doing so learn more about the opposite position than we would otherwise.
Were it not for the war in Iraq how many americans would be aware or discussing the ties between saddam and the US in the 80's or the conditions of afghani women?
Were it not fo faith based initaitives how much debate would thier be about the best way to help the disadvantaged? Some of course but as much?
In conflict we are tested, and just as iron is forged in heat and pressure so is america forged by conflict.



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 05:02 AM
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i agree with you for the most part. however at times it feels as if division gets the best of us and debate gets sidelined to idealogue sterotypical shouting matches between parties. you do not need to be divided in order to conduct a healthy debate.



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 05:06 AM
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Without divsion there is no debate, wthout divsion there is no passion and without passion we are not challenged. I for one am happy the election was as close as it was it proves that the naton is polarised to an extant whch means that we will all be forced t examine our views more throughouly. In politics ts not enough to get dirt on your opponent you have to also know what dirt they can get on you, when deabting you must know your positions weakness as well as your opponents. Because of the far right and the far left we have two extremes each fighting for thier beliefs which insures that all sides will be heard.



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 05:10 AM
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mwm1331
The more divided we are the more united we stand.


Thats total nonsense. No government on earth has ever been stronger while it stands divided against itself. The strength and function of our government would be greatly increased if we were all more of like mind. Heres what the Bible has to say about your position.

Matthew 12:25 KJV
And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.


America divided against itself is not a stronger America.



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 05:14 AM
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And that is what makes America unique in all the worlds history. Our strength s as a result of our division. It is beacause of our dversity that we are divided, and that divsion leads to conflict, and from that conflict is born the next generation of leaders.



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 05:32 AM
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Debate is good. Division is tolerable if both parties can walk away from the table without agreeing. We have not learned to do that as a nation or a people. People who refuse to accept exclusion often resort to radical measures, such as subversion and terrorism, and this is the problem.

I don't know why the gay marriage referendums failed. Is it because people don't want to afford gays equal rights and benefits (wrong, because it hurts certain members of our society) or because they just don't want to call their union a marriage (OK, because the net effect is harmless). This is where debate breaks down and division becomes potentially explosive.




posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 05:43 AM
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Even so was the country not divided in the 60s during the civil rights movement? Was that situation not explosive? Did it not lead to the betterment of the nation?
Even in more mundane divsion such as how the nations budget should be spent s it not better to have opposing factions fighting it out? As a conservative I need the lberals just as much as they need me. It is because of not in spite of ur opposing views and visions of the future that america stays strong. Because the nation is so divided it ensures that the actions of the presdent, senate , and congress, will be viewed critically. The vast gulf between the left and right expands the horizons of both farther than either could alone.



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 07:00 AM
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It's an interesting idea...

It's similar to doing a debate.

In preparing for a debate, you are forced to learn the points for and against your position, in order to argue it. It forces you to get more educated on the issue, and in the end, you're able to make a more informed decision on your stance.

However, such division can also lead to high emotions, and sometimes even give people a crusade complex. This is most evident in the anti-abortion crowd, which turn to terror tactics to make their message heard and enforced. When such division reaches this point, it is no longer healthy.

In this election, it is claimed that people came out of the woodwork for "Christian" values, in opposing gay marriage, and stem cell research, etc. In this case, the division led to the re-election of a man largely regarded as one of the worst presidents in modern history, and whose re-election will no doubt cause much anger and resentment towards Americans, throughout the world....

However, if it's one thing this nation is good at, it's pulling back together after being divided on an issue. This is something that terrorists didn't count on after 911. Many of us who voted for the other guy, are choosing to look at this as Bush's opportunity to try and win our respect by doing a better job this term. I sincerely hope he does, despite thinking he's a moronic twit.
Stranger things have happened.



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 07:08 AM
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In this election, it is claimed that people came out of the woodwork for "Christian" values, in opposing gay marriage, and stem cell research, etc.

Exactly my point Gazrok, Now had the country not been divided by the campaign how many rural americans would really have taken a critical look at stem cell research? How many urban liberals would have aknowledged the huge christian base as a political factor? Yes at times it does lead to the crusader complex on both sides, just as you have extremists pro-lifers you have extremists animal-righter, extremeist democrats, extremist republicans so on and so forth.
But wthout that conflict America does not grow and does not advance.



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 07:12 AM
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Thanks for a divided nation at least I have people out there to idenfity with I will never be able to allowed religious fundamentalist to push their bs on me.



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
Now that we have had the mandatory comment from the anti-US contingant would anyone like to discuss this seriously?


Sorry, but I do not see how that is anti-US in anyway. I find that you consider America to be the future of mankind very arrogant and it is very untrue. America needs to change its attitudes if there is to be any hope for mankind.

Heres to 4 more years at war, hurrah....Thanks so much for that.

[edit on 4-11-2004 by Kriz_4]



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 03:02 PM
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I agree with strong divisions provinding a good foundation for debate and movement being a good thing. People here sometimes seem to think to deny ignorance we must deny bias, but nothing could be further from the truth. For the most part, I can't stand web communities where everyone agrees with each other. The "amen brother" clubs are ignorance embraced. The truth is revealed more in conflict than agreement.

As to governance however, wedge issues piss me off. That has nothing to do with debate in my opinion. It's putting the electorate in a database, running a segmantation analysis and seeing what wins votes. People like to say the Democrats try to appeal to everyone via focus groups or polls and that's their failing. In a sense that's true. It's hard to be a national party these days. Especially when someone else is running wedges inbetween everyone.

Anyone that thinks the RNC is all pro-God, anti-Gay, "Moral values" all of a sudden because George Bush saw the light missed their marketing class in college. He also didn't refuse to meet with the NAACP because he forgot. He did it to shore up targeted white voters that would like that. It's divisive. It's a wedge.

It's not debate or issue based at all. And it doesn't lead to any truth. Just more votes in the right places. It's electoral manipulation to gain control of all. Divide and conquer. George Wedge Bush. There's nothing to debate with that man. His mind's made up.

When you can win three debates on issues and lose an election on "moral values" there's pretty much no point to even having a government.

Let's just name a Pope and go home.



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 03:10 PM
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I am all for freedom of speech and debate both the Big Two are dividing this country so much that disagreement is becoming hatred. This election was just a taste of what might be ahead. Its a small step from trashing someones signs in their yard to trashing the person themselves. The two parties use the divide and conquer tatic to great benifet.

Both groups are lying through their teeth and when you say something the zombies moan back "well the other side lied too" Its like two kids in grade school



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 03:20 PM
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Agreed

America is NOT DIVIDED

The republican party and democratic party are IDENTICLE

They want more government, more taxes, more war, less freedom

46% of the nation voted for Tyrany
4% of the nation voted of Liberty

But even worse, 50% of the nation didn't vote at all

[edit on 4-11-2004 by aukaiman55]



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
Now that we have had the mandatory comment from the anti-US contingant would anyone like to discuss this seriously?


Geez, so b/c he disagrees w/your opinion he's anti-US? LOL man you conservatives and this talk you use. It may get to others but not to me. If anything's anti-US it's all those so called American/Christian conservatives who still hate minorities today. That's the ultimate anti-US type of thought IMO. Of course I realize a lot in this country today still don't see minorities (especially blacks) as humans anyway.

[edit on 11/4/2004 by truseeker]



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
All through this recent election, and even more so since, America has been described as divided, polarised, and at war with itself. The newscasters, the pundits and the people look at the deep divisions in this country and its peoples views and they fear. I look at the deep divisions and see a country that is strong not in spite of, but because of its divisions. On the so called wedge issues such as Gay marriage, abortion, the war in Iraq, the differences between the left and right are vast, and this is as it should be. It is the conflct between those who believe that gay marriage should be banned and those who believe it should be available to all which make this country strong, just as the debates over abortion, taxes, and the war make this country strong. The more divided we are the more united we stand. It is because of the deep divisions in this countries peoples that issues such as gay marriage will be debated more fiercly than ever before, it is because of the conflict between Pro-lifers and pro-choicers that we are strong. In our conflict lies our strength. In our strength rests the future of mankind.


This is hilarious...

Your basis is that the whole thing came down to gay marriages, and abortion. Maybe in the eyes of mindless, republican puppets that is true. But in the minds of Democrats all across the country our future is more than dependant on whether or not two guys or two women get married or if a woman has the right to make decisions about her own body.

Our economy, education system, budgets, health care, cost of living, enormous deficit, foreign policies and relations, and social security have a greater effect on EVERYBODY than what your putting up as your main defense.

The Ignorant, the homophobic, the uneducated, the scared, the fanatics, the back woods inbreds decided these two topics were more important than whether or not they will be able to provide for their families next year.

Phae



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