If you have Christ ? You will survive !

reply to post by truejew

Hitler was Catholic, not Christian.

He claimed to follow the same god as both the Catholics and the Christians. Are you suggesting that one or the other is a false doctrine?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by truejew

 

Hitler was Catholic, not Christian.

He claimed to follow the same god as both the Catholics and the Christians. Are you suggesting that one or the other is a false doctrine?

To be Catholic, all you have to do is claim to follow God. Claims can be false. To be Christian, you have to actually follow God.

reply to post by truejew

To be Catholic, all you have to do is claim to follow God. Claims can be false. To be Christian, you have to actually follow God.

So Catholics are just politicians-in-training? I can think of a number of people who would vehemently disagree...then again, we've had a fair few Republican Catholics...

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by randyvs

 

Darth Vader represents the enemy..

Call it a reverse sting operation or a double bind hoodwink at the expense of the evil one conceived and at some level carried out from the origin of creation, with absolute foreknowledge as to what would be required, on the one hand and absolute blind ignorance on the other which just didn't see it coming until it was too late.

"Yessssssssss" while observing and driving Jesus to the cross, and "Nooooooooooo!" once Jesus was there with the final realization dawning that this was God's plan from the beginning of time.

Someone got hoodwinked, and something ended up in a double bind, and that it's the worst aspect of human nature within or wicked PTB without doesn't diminish the possibility for humor at the expense of a failed evil.

I'll be damned, oh wait ! Noooooooooooooooooooo !

That's a really good synopsis NAM. And my only hope in this thread, is for others to see just how far
we've ( including themselves if they choose ) all come thru ALL THAT. Light to you NAM.



reply to post by AfterInfinity

.then again, we've had a fair few Republican Catholics..

I want names AI. Cause I don't know of any and the thought never crossed my mind. To me that's just funny.

reply to post by ddaniel

There is no such thing as an external savior, because nothing external can truly threaten "you".

I've never felt externally threatened by Christ.
I have felt internally warned of what it is to be eternally with out him..
Big difference.

reply to post by randyvs


I'm no big Religious person Randyvs... Spiritual ~ Hell yea!!! And for that!



Well put btw~

Cheers!

reply to post by sulaw


Thank you and your stock is rising Sulaw. Meaning I read every one of your posts I come across.
I'm not religious either BTW. Just about the strongest believer I could ever be

reply to post by Openeye

Dear Openeye,

You see what happens to me when I'm under pressure? Another "failure to communicate."

Well I do not want to sound like a broken record so I will attempt to clarify my position on the sociopath.

A truly deranged sociopath like the one you present (a sadist who thinks himself superior to other humans, and cannot feel empathy be it due to psychological trauma, or physical defect) cannot be convinced of the things I'm speaking of, or if anything it is nearly impossible.

But I am not talking about sociopaths. I am talking about a rational, intelligent person, who is using only logic. Without a logically based first principle, anyone who thinks it through will get to the same "I want what I want" place.

A first principle is needed, and simply saying compassion is nice doesn't work. The response will always be the eternal "Why?" whether the person is sane or not. My position is that the only thing we can rely on for a first principle is the source you found in Luke.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by truejew

 

To be Catholic, all you have to do is claim to follow God. Claims can be false. To be Christian, you have to actually follow God.

So Catholics are just politicians-in-training? I can think of a number of people who would vehemently disagree...then again, we've had a fair few Republican Catholics...

All leaders and potential leaders in religious organizations are politicians. Politicking to reach higher positions. Organizations are corrupt.

Originally posted by charles1952
Nice message.

I would like to point out that the Catholic Church, and perhaps others, mentions specifically that children, and those who have never heard of Christ, can be saved. They are not doomed.

...and Source/God mentions specifically the relationship value of Father to Children (progenitor to progeny) - no splitting fake religious hairs there...

No-one is doomed, except to replay procedural free will horror movies...on themselves, and others...

A99

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by charles1952
Nice message.

I would like to point out that the Catholic Church, and perhaps others, mentions specifically that children, and those who have never heard of Christ, can be saved. They are not doomed.

...and Source/God mentions specifically the relationship value of Father to Children (progenitor to progeny) - no splitting fake religious hairs there...

No-one is doomed, except to replay procedural free will horror movies...on themselves, and others...A99

That would be the double bill at the Village (all that is required: a pounding hangover and enough money for 22 oz. Cokes and a bucket of Popcorn). The double feature? The Exorcist and Poltergiest.

Randy, I admire and actually envy your faith and I appreciate your desire to give people hope and comfort. And if the beliefs you hold accomplish that, then I am all for it.

Sadly, faith is not a switch I can flip and simply choose to have. Over the course of the last few days I've had no less than five people tell me, "Just choose to believe." But therein lies the problem. It isn't a choice. If it were a choice, then the majority of my life I've spent struggling, longing, praying, meditating, pleading, and reaching both out and in through myriad forms, would be sufficient for me to find faith.

I could not possibly try harder than I have to find faith in something. I've done, quite literally, everything I can to reach out to a deity or higher power or greater purpose if one exists and beseech it to help instill faith in whatever truth or meaning there may be in this existence, in me. I have most definitely chosen to TRY to find faith. And yet I still lack faith, and am still full of nothing but doubt and skepticism.

I'm agnostic. I am not closed to the possibility of a deity or the concepts held by the religious, but I am not capable of simply "believing." I want to believe in something. I want to know in my heart that existence has a meaning and a purpose. That we are loved by something greater than we can comprehend. That all of this is happening for a reason. But I can't simply will myself to do that. People tell me I am a doubting Thomas. But even Thomas got to touch his Lord and prove to himself that he was standing before him, so I'm a fair sight less than that even. And no, it does not appear self evident to me that my very existence requires or reveals the existence of a creator, because other possibilities exist which could readily account for this.

I love everyone and hold compassion for everyone. I try my utmost to treat others the way I would want to be treated, and to act with empathy and kindness. I have no criminal or misdemeanor record. I want peace and happiness for all. But that is the extent of my beliefs. If trying to live that way, but not being able to embrace belief as you have defined it means I will not be "saved," then I guess I won't be. But I have to ask... is that fair? Do I deserve to perish in spirit (if a spirit or soul exists that is,) or worse yet, suffer for eternity because I sought and never found? Because I knocked, and it wasn't opened to me? Or if it was, I could not see it? Despite earnestly and genuinely trying for most of my life?

The irony is that everything I just said - literally every word of it - applies equally to those who tell me I don't believe in alien visitation because I "don't want to believe" or "choose not to believe." When nothing could be further from the truth. I want to believe in something, anything, more than anything else in my life. I just haven't been able to, because at the end of the day nothing about reality as I am capable of perceiving it requires these things to be true in order for the observable reality around me and as observed by others to function.

Possible? Yes. Open to it? Absolutely. Want to believe it? God, yes. (No pun intended.) Able to dismiss all other possibilities and theories to simply "choose" to believe? No. I can't do it.

I love everyone. And if a God or gods exist, I love him/her/it, too. But I cannot simply decide to believe without some compelling reason to do so. I can engage in belief for the purpose of experiencing it. (Which is akin to make believe when I really get down to it.) But I can't embrace it as real or accept it as truth. It is not for lack of trying. Believe me (again, no pun intended.)

Peace.

I don't approve of any faith that encourages subjugation as an emotional coping mechanism. We fight all of our lives to be free, only to embrace dictatorship once we attain immortality? Give me a break. That's what I loathe about this reality. Every means we use to achieve an end violates the end itself. We kill to preserve life. We lie to defend truth. We steal to strive for honor. We are a walking paradox that can't even make a promise without breaking it in the same breath.

And a lot of these zealots are just more examples of that same gross contradiction that has come to define our species. It sickens me. Either you have the testicular fortitude to admit that you are a heartless cold-blooded predator only interested in preserving yourself, or you have the testicular fortitude to offer your services to your fellow man and stand behind that word. Not for a day. Not for a year. Always.

Who gives a crap about surviving? There's no point in adding years to life if you're not adding life to years. If you are not living every second of that life giving to those around you, then you have no reason to live. You are only consuming to desperately sustain your own existence. And for what? To consume more. Let the zealots cast away their wealth and belongings. Let every follower of Jesus live destitute on the streets. Let them demonstrate that this material life is not their purpose nor their interest. When they have done that, when every homeless person has sworn their life to Jesus, and when every devout Christian is wearing rags and chewing on stale bread, that is when their sincerity will become clear. That is when we'll know that their doctrine is genuine, and that their interest lies in others and not themselves.

That's when we can respect them. When they have chosen to forgo every possible comfort in favor of watching their fellow man smile. Because then we will look at them and know that they know compassion and hardship. They know where even the lowliest of men have been, they know what it is to go without and to have fear of your fellow man, and those hardened hearts that disdain the human condition and all of its flaws will finally melt in the face of true courage and family. There's love of money and connections...and then there's the bonds forged in the flames of trial and terror.

If there absolutely must be Christians, I think those are the kinds of Christians we can be proud of. If they must go to extremes, let them demonstrate extremes that help the people who need it most - the people who have no reason for faith, the people who have seen the worst of life and lost hope a few stops back. They're the ones who need it.

Let the politicians buy their own tickets to hell.

reply to post by AceWombat04

I love everyone and hold compassion for everyone. I try my utmost to treat others the way I would want to be treated, and to act with empathy and kindness. I have no criminal or misdemeanor record. I want peace and happiness for all. But that is the extent of my beliefs. If trying to live that way, but not being able to embrace belief as you have defined it means I will not be "saved," then I guess I won't be. But I have to ask... is that fair? Do I deserve to perish in spirit (if a spirit or soul exists that is,) or worse yet, suffer for eternity because I sought and never found? Because I knocked, and it wasn't opened to me? Or if it was, I could not see it? Despite earnestly and genuinely trying for most of my life?

Forgive me. i just noticed your reply going back thru my threads.
No criminal offences or misdemeanors on your record ?
Well hey you could be a trucker. I kid.

I would say no that isn't fair. Will it be fair If you in your doubt accept a mark
you feel in your heart and know the Bible warned you against, would cost you salvation ?
Do you think that would be fair ?

But if you some how in your doubt managed to
not get this mark then there would still
be some hope for you.

See the only time the Bible to my knowledge, ever mentions that all
of any certain group are damned ? Is when it reads very clearly all those
who worshipped the beast or had the number of his name.

So for me all that are not included in that recieving, I believe God would rather see saved.
Yes I said ALL. i do not speak for God. It is how I'm answering your reply. And what my
faith in him tells me is true. That's all. There are those who will be given a chance
to choose. I'm only trying to find favor with him myself. I can't say what degree of trying
yours is compared to mine. Or if the difference is measurable or even matters to God.
i can tell you this, it is on your mind.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Let the politicians buy their own tickets to hell.

You know, that was pretty damn good AI.
i look at the life Christ led and how he suffered.
And I see the lives we live today. and it really
doesn't feel right.

I find "trying to believe" extraordinarily difficult. I wouldn't recommend it.

There's a gap between God and us. Who has an easier time bridging that gap? I like Saint John of the Cross a lot.

In the first place it should be known that if a person is seeking God, his beloved is seeking him more, and the desire for God is the preparation for union with Him.

What we need most in order to make progress is to be silent before this great God with our appetites and our tongue, for the language He best hears is silent love.

I'm not even sure why I wrote that. It seemed like the thing to do.

reply to post by AceWombat04


Ace my suggestion to you is to not let the doom and gloom worry you.It is all false.There is no coming "apocalyptic" cataclysm so many falsely believe in.

The fact is God is saving EVERYONE.It's a process not an event.There's no religious genuflecting to being "saved".God is the one doing 100% of it all.There's no elitism of "chosen" people ...ALL of humankind are Gods chosen people.

As for "your" faith the religious require of you to be saved.That is not what the scriptures say.(nor reality)

For you are saved by graces through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift — not from works, so that no one can boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.

Grace(s) is the active process of salvation.It is the action of salvation/deliverance.No one is saved past tense or ever will be it is an infinite process.
The gifts are grace AND faith and Works .... neither are things man does... God does it ALL.They are the "good works" created in you..they are being done NOW even though you don't perceive this grace,faith,works it is there.It's not your own ..Its ALL God's.

It is said that as proof whether you have faith you must have works.... "faith without works is dead as a body without spirit is dead".The latter scripture statement is true..however it is GOD'S works not yours.It's the twisting of the scriptures that cause many to not know this faith.

The bottom line is faith is only the beginning.The scriptures say Yahoshua(Jesus) is the author and FINISHER of our faith.There is a time faith ends...when you know.Yahoshua clearly stated "IF you are a disciple of mine continue in my words(the living word..grace through faith) and you will KNOW the truth and the Truth WILL set you free."

The many are called cannot hear(know) the truth.They are on the wide road that leads to the wide gate(the religious heart) of destruction...the destruction of religion...faith.When religion is destroyed(the process of salvation) you enter the narrow path that leads to the narrow gate that opens into the infinite green pasture fields..The Kingdom of God that is IN your midst.It's already being formed IN you by salvation that is GIVEN to everyone.

Personally you sound like someone that had very little religion to destroy and are on the narrow path.God will open you ears so you will KNOW.You can't do it.A few will be surprised that they where on the narrow path for a long time and didn't know it...just as MANY will be very, very surprised they "thought" they were on the narrow path but it was WIDE!

You will be very surprised how "normal" it all is.Yahoshua said the Kingdom of God COMES without observation..it is neither here nor there but it is IN your midst...it is.