Aircraft Carriers have been obsolete for a long time

Originally posted by CarbonBase
reply to post by MConnalley

 

Nice. That's a lot of firepower, and a lot of sensors! But there are things on the CVN that you didn't list, because, hey presto, they are classified! Anyway, I'm still trying to figure out which 'real' Navy the OP is pitting against the US Navy, in which I served for 20 years, and had an 'above top secret' clearance. Yeah, it's like that. I'm thinking the 'destroyer' fleet he's referring to belongs to a dominant naval power, currently in existence, possibly France or the Carnival Cruise line, after that, I have no other idea's !

Haha im sure there are classified weapons and an assortment of technology on that baby, he just brought up the Russians so.. i dunno, its like talking to my schizophrenic old friend.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Jepic

 

lets see : the capability to independantly position itself off the coast of any land mass then .

1 - the ability to enforce a no fly zone upto 500 miles from the nearest blue water

2 - the ability to provide CAS [ close air support ] to ground operations upto 500 miles from the nearest blue water

3 - the ability to conduct stategic and tactical strikes against both sea and land based targets

4 - the ability to lauch a ground forces strike against inland targets [ even if opposed ]

5 - the ability to recover ground forces or civilian refugees from an inland extraction site [ even if opposed ]

no other single platform can replicate all 5 - and none can do it on the scale that a carrier can

1. Cruise missiles can enforce no fly zones as seen in Libya.
2. See above.
3. See point 1.
4. See point 1.
5. Each destroyer can have two helicopter bays.

A destroyer fleet can do all 5 and on a bigger scale and much more efficiently.

Originally posted by CarbonBase
reply to post by MConnalley

 

Nice. That's a lot of firepower, and a lot of sensors! But there are things on the CVN that you didn't list, because, hey presto, they are classified! Anyway, I'm still trying to figure out which 'real' Navy the OP is pitting against the US Navy, in which I served for 20 years, and had an 'above top secret' clearance. Yeah, it's like that. I'm thinking the 'destroyer' fleet he's referring to belongs to a dominant naval power, currently in existence, possibly France or the Carnival Cruise line, after that, I have no other idea's !

Again. It's a hypothetical navy invented to see how a carrier group would do against a destroyer fleet.

reply to post by Jepic


oh and look the most advanced American destroyer, still doesn't do what you hoped.

"Class & type: Zumwalt-class destroyer
Displacement: 14,564 tons[2]
Length: 600 ft (182.9 m)
Beam: 80.7 ft (24.6 m)
Draft: 27.6 ft (8.4 m)
Propulsion: 2 Rolls-Royce Marine Trent-30 gas turbines and emergency diesel generators, 78 MW
Speed: 30.3 knots (56.1 km/h; 34.9 mph)
Complement: 140
Sensors and
processing systems: AN/SPY-3 Multi-Function Radar (MFR) (X-band, scanned array)
Volume Search Radar (VSR) (S-band, scanned array)
Armament: 20 × MK 57 VLS modules, with 4 vertical launch cells in each module, 80 cells total. Each cell can hold one or more missiles, depending on the size of the missiles.
Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM)
Tactical Tomahawk Vertical Launch Anti-Submarine Rocket (ASROC)
2 × 155 mm Advanced Gun System
920 × 155 mm total; 600 in automated store + Auxiliary store room with up to 320 rounds (non-automatic) as of April 2005
70-100 LRLAP rounds planned as of 2005 of total
2 × Mk 110 57 mm gun (CIWS)
Aircraft carried: 2 × SH-60 LAMPS helicopters or
1 × MH-60R helicopter
3 × MQ-8 Fire Scout VTUAV"

Originally posted by MConnalley
reply to post by Jepic

 

room, cant have missiles and artillery to. plus the ships will never get in range to fire those guns, im right and your wrong. might as well just build a battleship, no common sense you have, absolutely none.

Of course you can. There is plenty of room in this Earth. We are now 7 billion but still plenty of room. Don't believe that overpopulation stuff.

With a 60 km range, the guns will make it happen.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Jepic

 

What's to stop the Russians from mounting 20 pieces of 5 inch guns on each side of their destroyers...

the laws of physics

- specifically archemiides principal

Which means that anything with enough buoyancy will float no matter the size.

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Jepic

 

lets see : the capability to independantly position itself off the coast of any land mass then .

1 - the ability to enforce a no fly zone upto 500 miles from the nearest blue water

2 - the ability to provide CAS [ close air support ] to ground operations upto 500 miles from the nearest blue water

3 - the ability to conduct stategic and tactical strikes against both sea and land based targets

4 - the ability to lauch a ground forces strike against inland targets [ even if opposed ]

5 - the ability to recover ground forces or civilian refugees from an inland extraction site [ even if opposed ]

no other single platform can replicate all 5 - and none can do it on the scale that a carrier can

1. Cruise missiles can enforce no fly zones as seen in Libya.
2. See above.
3. See point 1.
4. See point 1.
5. Each destroyer can have two helicopter bays.

A destroyer fleet can do all 5 and on a bigger scale and much more efficiently.

Specifications (SH-60B)

Data from Brassey's World Aircraft & Systems Directory,[54] Navy fact file,[20] and Sikorsky S-70B[55][56]
MH-60S empty cabin and sling load mechanism
SH-60 showing an M240D machine gun, Hellfire missiles and external fuel tank

General characteristics

Crew: 3–4
Capacity: 5 passengers in cabin, slung load of 6,000 lb (2,700 kg) or internal load of 4,100 lb (1,900 kg) for B, F and H models; and 11 passengers or slung load of 9,000 lb (4,100 kg) for S-model
Length: 64 ft 8 in (19.75 m)
Rotor diameter: 53 ft 8 in (16.35 m)
Height: 17 ft 2 in (5.2 m)
Disc area: 2,262 ft² (210 m²)
Empty weight: 15,200 lb (6,895 kg)
Loaded weight: 17,758 lb (8,055 kg) ; for ASW mission
Useful load: 6,684 lb (3,031 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 21,884 lb (9,927 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × General Electric T700-GE-401C turboshaft, 1,890 shp (1,410 kW) take-off power each

Performance

Never exceed speed: 180 kn (333 km/h; 207 mph)
Maximum speed: 146 kn (270 km/h; 168 mph)
Range: 450 nmi (518 mi or 834 km) at cruise speed
Service ceiling: 12,000 ft (3,580 m)
Rate of climb: 1,650 ft/min (8.38 m/s)

Armament

Up to three Mark 46 torpedos or Mk-54s,
AGM-114 Hellfire missile, 4 Hellfire missiles for SH-60B and HH-60H and MH-60R, 8 Hellfire missiles for MH-60S Block III.
AGM-119 Penguin missile (being phased out),
M60 machine gun or, M240 machine gun or GAU-16/A machine gun or GAU-17/A Minigun
Rapid Airborne Mine Clearance System (RAMICS) using Mk 44 Mod 0 30 mm Cannon

Main article: U.S. Helicopter Armament Subsystems

lol you mean two of these helicopters lol, there range is less than 450 nautical miles.

lol cruise missiles can only enforce a no fly zone if they an kill the carrier first lol which they cant, read thread.

Those sea hawk helicopters will get no were near ground forces in a non secured LZ cruise missiles don't secure LZs. destroyers dont carry a compliment of Marines ready for ground insertion.

Your wrong wrong wrong.

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by MConnalley
reply to post by Jepic

 

room, cant have missiles and artillery to. plus the ships will never get in range to fire those guns, im right and your wrong. might as well just build a battleship, no common sense you have, absolutely none.

Of course you can. There is plenty of room in this Earth. We are now 7 billion but still plenty of room. Don't believe that overpopulation stuff.

With a 60 km range, the guns will make it happen.

5"/54 caliber Mark 45 gun

"Type Naval gun
Place of origin United States
Service history
In service • Mod 0: 1971[1]
• Mod 1: 1980[1]
• Mod 2: 1988[1]
• Mod 4: 2000[2]
Used by See users
Production history
Designed 1968[1]
Manufacturer United Defense[1] (now BAE Systems Land & Armaments)
Produced 1971[1]
Specifications
Weight • Mod 2: 21,691 kg (47,820.5 lb)[1]
• Mod 4: 28,924 kg (63,766.5 lb)[1]
Length • Mod 2: 8.992 m (29 ft 6.0 in)[3]
• Mod 4: 10.008 m (32 ft 10.0 in)[2]
Barrel length • Mod 2: 6.858 m (270.0 in)[3]
Rifling: 5.82 m (229 in)[3]
8,000 rounds (barrel life)[3]
• Mod 4: 7.874 m (310.0 in)[2]
Rifling: 6.836 m (269.1 in)[2]
7,000 rounds (barrel life)[2]
Shell Conventional: 31.75 kg (70.0 lb)[1]
Caliber 5.0 inches (127.0 mm)
Barrels Single barrel (progressive RH parabolic twist)
Elevation • -15°/+65°[3]
Maximum elevation rate: 20°/sec[3]
Traverse • ±170° from centerline[3]
Maximum traversing rate: 30°/sec[3]
Rate of fire 16–20 rounds per minute automatic[4]
Muzzle velocity • Mod 2: 2,500 ft/s (762.0 m/s)[1]
• Mod 4: 2,650 ft/s (807.7 m/s)[1]
• 1,500 ft/s (457.2 m/s) reduced charge for defilade fire or illumination rounds
Effective range 13 nmi (24.1 km)[4]
Feed system 600 rounds (Ticonderoga class)
680 rounds (Arleigh Burke class)
475–500 rounds (Other classes)"

range 13 damn nautical miles not 60. holy crap!

reply to post by Jepic


Ok. You mean like Godzilla or the Tooth Fairy with a plasma rifle and a bag full of 'singularity grenades' or the 'space Yamato'! Hey, the hull on my 'hypothetical' CVN has a 'Neutronium' hull, like the doomsday machine from the original star trek series! Hey, it's been fun, really! But I have to go hop in Thunderbird 1, head over to the Piggly Wiggly, get some smokes, a magnum of Saurian Brandy, and some tribbles (So tasty if you don't overcook them). Your concept of a 'destroyer fleet' sounds very close to the US Navy arsenal ship program. .
Again, thanks, I really enjoyed your 'hypothetical' exercise. Well done! BRAVO ZULU ! Sincerely CTT1/USN/Retired!

reply to post by Jepic

1. Cruise missiles can enforce no fly zones as seen in Libya.

utter twaddle

a cruise missile can only attack runways or other known infrastructure points

a cruise missile has zero capability to do anything against an enemy that can get its forces airborne

a cruise missile cannot loiter or interdict an area

as for your other " points "

cruise missiles have only 2 warhead types - they cannot provide CLOSE air support - nor can they attack an armoured target , or interdict an area [ cluster bombs ]

cruise missiles have zero flexibility - they cannot strafe a single infantry platoon with canon , or rocket - a f/a18 strike aircraft can carry 16 250kg bombs - thats 16 targets - and the ability to loiter - ie it can protect a besiged position

i am getting the feeling you are confusing " destroyers " with " battleships " - because put 20 extra " passengers " on a destroyer - and there is ZERO rom left

PS - how many cruise missiles do you envision your " destroyers " carrying ?

Wait till we mount our lasers on all our ships.The carriers are mostly for show.Our sub-lauched missiles can cause much damage without being seen.

reply to post by Jepic


please explain how to acieve bouyancy without volume - you will win a nobel prize for this one

Originally posted by MConnalley

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Jepic

 

lets see : the capability to independantly position itself off the coast of any land mass then .

1 - the ability to enforce a no fly zone upto 500 miles from the nearest blue water

2 - the ability to provide CAS [ close air support ] to ground operations upto 500 miles from the nearest blue water

3 - the ability to conduct stategic and tactical strikes against both sea and land based targets

4 - the ability to lauch a ground forces strike against inland targets [ even if opposed ]

5 - the ability to recover ground forces or civilian refugees from an inland extraction site [ even if opposed ]

no other single platform can replicate all 5 - and none can do it on the scale that a carrier can

1. Cruise missiles can enforce no fly zones as seen in Libya.
2. See above.
3. See point 1.
4. See point 1.
5. Each destroyer can have two helicopter bays.

A destroyer fleet can do all 5 and on a bigger scale and much more efficiently.

lol you mean two of these helicopters lol, there range is less than 450 nautical miles.

lol cruise missiles can only enforce a no fly zone if they an kill the carrier first lol which they cant, read thread.

Those sea hawk helicopters will get no were near ground forces in a non secured LZ cruise missiles don't secure LZs. destroyers dont carry a compliment of Marines ready for ground insertion.

Your wrong wrong wrong.

You missed the part where we are speaking of a destroyer fleet. Which means not 2 but a power of 20 helicopters integrated with a combination of anti-submarine, electronice/cyber warfare and surface attack capability.

Yes they can kill a carrier group. It's called a massive missile strike. It just overwhelms your lasers. Not that those will be any good with the smoke and all. Besides I don't even know why you mentioned lasers seeing as how they are not even in service. I do agree that lasers are the future but not in the primitive stage they are at now.

You can secure an area with GUESS WHAT! MISSILES! AND GUES WHAT ELSE! ARTILLERY!

Originally posted by MConnalley

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by MConnalley
reply to post by Jepic

 

room, cant have missiles and artillery to. plus the ships will never get in range to fire those guns, im right and your wrong. might as well just build a battleship, no common sense you have, absolutely none.

Of course you can. There is plenty of room in this Earth. We are now 7 billion but still plenty of room. Don't believe that overpopulation stuff.

With a 60 km range, the guns will make it happen.

5"/54 caliber Mark 45 gun

"Type Naval gun
Place of origin United States
Service history
In service • Mod 0: 1971[1]
• Mod 1: 1980[1]
• Mod 2: 1988[1]
• Mod 4: 2000[2]
Used by See users
Production history
Designed 1968[1]
Manufacturer United Defense[1] (now BAE Systems Land & Armaments)
Produced 1971[1]
Specifications
Weight • Mod 2: 21,691 kg (47,820.5 lb)[1]
• Mod 4: 28,924 kg (63,766.5 lb)[1]
Length • Mod 2: 8.992 m (29 ft 6.0 in)[3]
• Mod 4: 10.008 m (32 ft 10.0 in)[2]
Barrel length • Mod 2: 6.858 m (270.0 in)[3]
Rifling: 5.82 m (229 in)[3]
8,000 rounds (barrel life)[3]
• Mod 4: 7.874 m (310.0 in)[2]
Rifling: 6.836 m (269.1 in)[2]
7,000 rounds (barrel life)[2]
Shell Conventional: 31.75 kg (70.0 lb)[1]
Caliber 5.0 inches (127.0 mm)
Barrels Single barrel (progressive RH parabolic twist)
Elevation • -15°/+65°[3]
Maximum elevation rate: 20°/sec[3]
Traverse • ±170° from centerline[3]
Maximum traversing rate: 30°/sec[3]
Rate of fire 16–20 rounds per minute automatic[4]
Muzzle velocity • Mod 2: 2,500 ft/s (762.0 m/s)[1]
• Mod 4: 2,650 ft/s (807.7 m/s)[1]
• 1,500 ft/s (457.2 m/s) reduced charge for defilade fire or illumination rounds
Effective range 13 nmi (24.1 km)[4]
Feed system 600 rounds (Ticonderoga class)
680 rounds (Arleigh Burke class)
475–500 rounds (Other classes)"

range 13 damn nautical miles not 60. holy crap!

Try the 210 mm. I'll probably have to significantly reduce the amount of guns on the destroyer though. Still a sweet deal. But like I told you it's not even necessary to have artillery. For the lasers it could be helpful but if there are no lasers present, I can take away my artillery.

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by MConnalley

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Jepic

 

lets see : the capability to independantly position itself off the coast of any land mass then .

1 - the ability to enforce a no fly zone upto 500 miles from the nearest blue water

2 - the ability to provide CAS [ close air support ] to ground operations upto 500 miles from the nearest blue water

3 - the ability to conduct stategic and tactical strikes against both sea and land based targets

4 - the ability to lauch a ground forces strike against inland targets [ even if opposed ]

5 - the ability to recover ground forces or civilian refugees from an inland extraction site [ even if opposed ]

no other single platform can replicate all 5 - and none can do it on the scale that a carrier can

1. Cruise missiles can enforce no fly zones as seen in Libya.
2. See above.
3. See point 1.
4. See point 1.
5. Each destroyer can have two helicopter bays.

A destroyer fleet can do all 5 and on a bigger scale and much more efficiently.

lol you mean two of these helicopters lol, there range is less than 450 nautical miles.

lol cruise missiles can only enforce a no fly zone if they an kill the carrier first lol which they cant, read thread.

Those sea hawk helicopters will get no were near ground forces in a non secured LZ cruise missiles don't secure LZs. destroyers dont carry a compliment of Marines ready for ground insertion.

Your wrong wrong wrong.

You missed the part where we are speaking of a destroyer fleet. Which means not 2 but a power of 20 helicopters integrated with a combination of anti-submarine, electronice/cyber warfare and surface attack capability.

Yes they can kill a carrier group. It's called a massive missile strike. It just overwhelms your lasers. Not that those will be any good with the smoke and all. Besides I don't even know why you mentioned lasers seeing as how they are not even in service. I do agree that lasers are the future but not in the primitive stage they are at now.

You can secure an area with GUESS WHAT! MISSILES! AND GUES WHAT ELSE! ARTILLERY!

lol I just feel like your a dumb ass im sorry but there nothing else i can say, force bent on destruction by any means necessary even non self preservation can do a lot of damage but honestly ever single one of those men will know they are throwing away there lives because there dumbass commander told them to "get into gun range with a carrier and engage" there are so many simultaneously defenses on a carrier that its negligible any missiles will stop a carriers combat ability. and your destroyer group would never get into range ever there will be 90 aircraft slamming warheads against all your hulls before you were even in visual range.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Jepic

 

1. Cruise missiles can enforce no fly zones as seen in Libya.

utter twaddle

a cruise missile can only attack runways or other known infrastructure points

a cruise missile has zero capability to do anything against an enemy that can get its forces airborne

a cruise missile cannot loiter or interdict an area

as for your other " points "

cruise missiles have only 2 warhead types - they cannot provide CLOSE air support - nor can they attack an armoured target , or interdict an area [ cluster bombs ]

cruise missiles have zero flexibility - they cannot strafe a single infantry platoon with canon , or rocket - a f/a18 strike aircraft can carry 16 250kg bombs - thats 16 targets - and the ability to loiter - ie it can protect a besiged position

i am getting the feeling you are confusing " destroyers " with " battleships " - because put 20 extra " passengers " on a destroyer - and there is ZERO rom left

PS - how many cruise missiles do you envision your " destroyers " carrying ?

A cruise missile can engage any ground or air target. That includes armored vehicles and infantry.

The opening to the terminator film portrays it really well. Those A10s have no place there. Basically a big chunk of metal with no use. Another cruise missile after the first hit before the helicopters landed would have done the job. Just imagine another explosion of the same size as the first immediately after.

F/A-18

" Crew: F/A-18C: 1, F/A-18D: 2 (pilot and weapons system officer)
Length: 56 ft (17.1 m)
Wingspan: 40 ft (12.3 m)
Height: 15 ft 4 in (4.7 m)
Wing area: 400 ft² (38 m²)
Airfoil: NACA 65A005 mod root, 65A003.5 mod tip
Empty weight: 23,000 lb (10,400 kg)
Loaded weight: 36,970 lb (16,770 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 51,900 lb (23,500 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × General Electric F404-GE-402 turbofans
Dry thrust: 11,000 lbf (48.9 kN) each
Thrust with afterburner: 17,750 lbf (79.2 kN) each

Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 1.8 (1,190 mph, 1,915 km/h) at 40,000 ft (12,190 m)
Range: 1,089 nmi (1,250 miles, 2,000 km) with only two AIM-9s
Combat radius: 400 nmi (460 mi, 740 km) on air-air mission
Ferry range: 1,800 nmi (2,070 mi, 3,330 km)
Service ceiling: 50,000 ft (15,240 m)
Rate of climb: 50,000 ft/min (254 m/s)
Wing loading: 93 lb/ft² (454 kg/m²)
Thrust/weight: 0.96

Armament

Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) M61 Vulcan nose mounted 6-barreled gatling cannon, 578 rounds
Hardpoints: 9 total: 2× wingtips missile launch rail, 4× under-wing, and 3× under-fuselage with a capacity of 13,700 lb (6,215 kg) external fuel and ordnance
Rockets:
2.75 inches (70 mm) Hydra 70 rockets
5 in (127.0 mm) Zuni rockets
Missiles:
Air-to-air missiles:
4× AIM-9 Sidewinder or 4× AIM-132 ASRAAM or 4× IRIS-T or 4× AIM-120 AMRAAM, and
2× AIM-7 Sparrow or additional 2× AIM-120 AMRAAM
Air-to-surface missiles:
AGM-65 Maverick
Standoff Land Attack Missile (SLAM-ER)
AGM-88 HARM Anti-radiation missile (ARM)
AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW)
Taurus missile (Cruise missile)
Anti-ship missile:
AGM-84 Harpoon
Bombs:
JDAM precision-guided munition (PGMs)
Paveway series of laser-guided bombs
Mk 80 series of unguided iron bombs
CBU-87 cluster
CBU-89 gator mine
CBU-97
Mk 20 Rockeye II
B61/Mk57 nuclear bombs[102]
Others:
SUU-42A/A Flares/Infrared decoys dispenser pod and chaff pod or
Electronic countermeasures (ECM) pod or
AN/AAS-38 Nite Hawk Targeting pods (US Navy only), to be replaced by AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR or
LITENING targeting pod (USMC, Royal Australian Air Force, Spanish Air Force, and Finnish Air Force only) or
up to 3× 330 US gallons (1,200 l; 270 imp gal) Sargent Fletcher drop tanks for ferry flight or extended range/loitering time.

Avionics

Hughes APG-73 radar
ROVER (Remotely Operated Video Enhanced Receiver) antenna for use by US Navy's F/A-18C strike fighter squadrons"

about 1000 nautical mile range and lets say half of that range would hypothetically be needed for return trip so 500 nautical miles now, carrier knows your coming because we will always know. fighters are launched, your destroyers are moving at max speed towards carrier, lets give them 40 knots for generosity. it will take your destroyer group 12 hours to get into gun or "smokescreen" range lol. it saysthe F/A 18s combat range is 400 nautical miles so that's now 10 hours. well how about the time it takes for the jets to get there? well they go at mach 1.8 top speed or 1,190 mph so jets get there in 15 to 30 minutes, thats still 9 and a half hours to contend with aircraft and support aircraft. dude no hope.

lol just noticed you've referenced a movie to portray reality lol.

Originally posted by MConnalley

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by MConnalley

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Jepic

 

lets see : the capability to independantly position itself off the coast of any land mass then .

1 - the ability to enforce a no fly zone upto 500 miles from the nearest blue water

2 - the ability to provide CAS [ close air support ] to ground operations upto 500 miles from the nearest blue water

3 - the ability to conduct stategic and tactical strikes against both sea and land based targets

4 - the ability to lauch a ground forces strike against inland targets [ even if opposed ]

5 - the ability to recover ground forces or civilian refugees from an inland extraction site [ even if opposed ]

no other single platform can replicate all 5 - and none can do it on the scale that a carrier can

1. Cruise missiles can enforce no fly zones as seen in Libya.
2. See above.
3. See point 1.
4. See point 1.
5. Each destroyer can have two helicopter bays.

A destroyer fleet can do all 5 and on a bigger scale and much more efficiently.

lol you mean two of these helicopters lol, there range is less than 450 nautical miles.

lol cruise missiles can only enforce a no fly zone if they an kill the carrier first lol which they cant, read thread.

Those sea hawk helicopters will get no were near ground forces in a non secured LZ cruise missiles don't secure LZs. destroyers dont carry a compliment of Marines ready for ground insertion.

Your wrong wrong wrong.

You missed the part where we are speaking of a destroyer fleet. Which means not 2 but a power of 20 helicopters integrated with a combination of anti-submarine, electronice/cyber warfare and surface attack capability.

Yes they can kill a carrier group. It's called a massive missile strike. It just overwhelms your lasers. Not that those will be any good with the smoke and all. Besides I don't even know why you mentioned lasers seeing as how they are not even in service. I do agree that lasers are the future but not in the primitive stage they are at now.

You can secure an area with GUESS WHAT! MISSILES! AND GUES WHAT ELSE! ARTILLERY!

lol I just feel like your a dumb ass im sorry but there nothing else i can say, force bent on destruction by any means necessary even non self preservation can do a lot of damage but honestly ever single one of those men will know they are throwing away there lives because there dumbass commander told them to "get into gun range with a carrier and engage" there are so many simultaneously defenses on a carrier that its negligible any missiles will stop a carriers combat ability. and your destroyer group would never get into range ever there will be 90 aircraft slamming warheads against all your hulls before you were even in visual range.

It's the same with the fleet. If a carrier group can have a layered defense why can't a destroyer fleet. And much more effectively at that! The amount of missiles a fleet can launch will just overwhelm the carrier group. It's impossible for a standard carrier group to intercept a massive barrage of incoming projectiles. The fleet on the other hand can intercept a massive barrage because it has enough projectiles to counter it.

Its not the aircraft carrier its the 25 heavily armed ships that escort it that are the real meat and potatoes, the planes are a force multiplier. Not to mention the hundreds of amphibious vehicles that an aircraft carrier can deploy as well.